why do you hate EU?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Kingpin, Aug 14, 2002.

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  1. Jansons_Funny_Twin Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 6
    I liked "Star by Star".

    "Shadows of the Empire" was good.

    Oh, and the new one, "Traitor" is really good. A whole new perspective on the Force.
  2. Nichos_Marr Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 26, 2001
    star 4
    Oh man. Please tell me which books you think are on the same level of the films.

    Cloak of Deception, a prequel novel that made me respect TPM even more. Cloak of Deception sets the stage perfectly for TPM and made the movie better to watch because I understood things better. I understood the motives of the Trade Federation, and the kind of things that Valorum had to deal with.

  3. Jansons_Funny_Twin Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 6
  4. Imperial_Guard Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 13, 2002
    star 4
    Haven't read Traitor yet and I doubt that I will. I understand that the author, Stover, tries to cram postmodernism and existentialism into the SW universe by giving us his own selfish take on the Force. No light side or dark side. Wow, interesting. Too bad it's as far removed from SW as you can get. Good job Stover. Who greenlights this crap? I doubt that GL even knows half the time what Lucasbooks is pumping out.

    Shadows was about the closest novel to a movie feel but the female android right out of Star Trek and Xizor the lameo with his pheremones are big drawbacks. I will blame GL partly for this one because it was a big multimedia project that he signed off on and was well aware of.

    Finally, (for Kingpin) don't bring a thread entitled "why do you hate EU?" into the film forums and not expect some people like me to vent. I don't hang around the EU forum slamming the EU all day. (I've never posted there, in fact) but when you bring a thread devoted to the EU into a film forum, it's open season as far as I'm concerned.
  5. Nichos_Marr Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 26, 2001
    star 4
    I understand that the author, Stover, tries to cram postmodernism and existentialism into the SW universe by giving us his own selfish take on the Force. No light side or dark side. Wow, interesting. Too bad it's as far removed from SW as you can get. Good job Stover. Who greenlights this crap? I doubt that GL even knows half the time what Lucasbooks is pumping out.

    George Lucas approved the storyline [face_plain]

  6. Imperial_Guard Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 13, 2002
    star 4
    So GL approved a take on the Force that completely contradicts his own?! Does he just stamp it or does he actually glance over the details? Unbelievable.
  7. Fire_Light Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2002
    star 5
    You might want to try and actually read a book before you blast it. But hey, if you want to bash something cause someone else told you so then I guess there is nothing I can do about it.
  8. Jansons_Funny_Twin Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 6
    I happened to agree with Stover in "Traitor."

    No light side, no dark side, just the Force.

    I have no idea what "postmodernism and existentialism" is, and I don't care. I liked the book.
  9. SirLancelot Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 10, 2002
    star 4
    actually GL hasa final edit. if he dosent think anything is up to snuff he can veto it. But i liked Traitor, it really made you think about the nature of the force.

    here are how i classify my books:

    1. Excellent: Dark Force Rising, Shadows of the Empire, Dark Aprentice

    2. Very Good: Heir to the Empire, The Last Command, I,Jedi, Rogue Squadron, Wraith Squadron, Sheild of Lies, Tyrants Test

    3. Good: most NJO, The Bacta War, Wedge's Gamble, The Krytos Trap, Iron Fist, Solo Command, Isard's Revenge, Starfighters of Adumar.......

    4. Ok: Coutship of Princess Leia,

    5. Disaml: The Crystal Star, Chidlren of the Jedi, The New Rebellion

    i forgot a bunch but this is a good example
  10. Nichos_Marr Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 26, 2001
    star 4
    So GL approved a take on the Force that completely contradicts his own?! Does he just stamp it or does he actually glance over the details?

    Uh? And what makes Vergere right?

    What Vergere preaches (No Dark Side) is a direct tie in to the prequel novel Rogue Planet. In the Power of the Jedi sourcebook, it said that her preachings were referred to as the "Potentium heresies" by the PT Jedi. It also said that those who preach these kind of teachings are either Dark Siders or will eventually be corrupted by the Dark Side.

    Besides, Stover was really trying to say the Force is one. He said through his book that people have a dark side within them, not within the Force. He got this idea from when Yoda directed Luke to go into the Dagobah dark side cave. Luke asked, "What's in there" and Yoda replied "Only what you bring with you."

    Don't jump to conclusion because one character claims there is no Dark Side.
  11. Imperial_Guard Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 13, 2002
    star 4
    No one told me to bash it at all. I'm bashing Stover's ridiculous and self-indulgent interpretation of the Force which contradicts the fundamentals of what the films have portrayed.

    EDIT: Who the hell is Vergere?
  12. Jansons_Funny_Twin Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 6
    I agree with you there Lance.
  13. SirLancelot Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 10, 2002
    star 4
    what do you know Imp_Gaurd? you havent read the book
  14. New_York_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2002
    star 6
    He has a point...if you haven't read it, its hard to formulate a opinion. If you read the book and still say you think its crap, hey, i got know problem.
  15. Nichos_Marr Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 26, 2001
    star 4
    EDIT: Who the hell is Vergere?

    Vergere was a prequel era Jedi. She's the character spreading this "No Dark Side" idea.
  16. Imperial_Guard Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 13, 2002
    star 4
    Why the hell would I waste time reading a book that I think has a ridiculous concept as its anchor? I've given the EU plenty of chances but Vector Prime was the point of no return. I simply don't pay attention to the books anymore.

    And I'll say it again:

    THIS IS A FILM FORUM. YOU EU GUSHERS BROUGHT THIS HERE. NOT ME.
  17. Jansons_Funny_Twin Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 6
    How can you form an opinion about a book you haven't read?

    How about this? I hate all people from Utah. I've never met anyone from Utah, but I heard they all marry each other out there.

    *Note, I do not hate anyone from Utah.*

    All you have is hear-say, and it's hardly from a relyable source.
  18. SirLancelot Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 10, 2002
    star 4
    read title: Expanded Universe Defense Force


    we small a bashin we come a runnin.


    and we all know for a fact if we dont talk about this stuff it woud be nothing but constant bashing. and the original question would never be answerd.

    and if you are ignorant of a subject, then talk about it you should not!

  19. New_York_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2002
    star 6
    Now, saberlord99, its not nice to insult him like that. You're givin the rest of us Completists a bad name!
  20. Lord_Hydronium Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2002
    star 5
    These books are not written as the official "way it goes". Just another person's idea for good reading.

    Oh well, I think that EU is just EU. I don't consider it canon per se and I don't consider it non-canon. It just IS!

    but i have never tried to ram rod it down peoples throats. i just try to ligitamize it to people becuase so many just dismiss it out of hand.

    Those are takes that I really like to hear. A lot of EU fans seem to want to force the EU ideas upon everybody. Often speculation on some part of the movie universe will be interrupted by an EUite saying that the way he read in a book was the only way it could be. Is it just me, or would that render all speculation moot? There was something on the AOTC boards a while ago about how the Kaminoans might have designed the Slave I, since they have ships that look an awful lot like it. An EU fan came in and informed everyone that the Slave I was designed by Kuat Drive Yards, and that was that. No more speculation allowed. A post on the OT boards speculating whether Vader might have given the order to kill Owen and Beru when they were found was intruded on by someone (the same person as in the AOTC example; any guesses who?) claiming that he didn't, because they read otherwise in a book. Of course, they treated this like it was the final answer, and the thread should stop right then and there.

    No way am I saying that everyone is like this. As I said, the statements that people here have given show me that there are people who don't force the EU down upon those who don't believe in it. In fact, the EU-forcers seem to be in the minority. My stake on the EU is, post-ROTJ, no matter how good it is, it's still speculative fiction (yes, once again, I'm assuming SW were a real story). That doesn't mean I won't read it, it just means that I won't accept it as the absolute way things happened to Luke and Co. Prequel era, I can accept as the "way things happened", unless of course it contradicts something in the movies. Novelizations are slightly below movies, since anything in them that contradicts the movies is not true.

    And that's my philosophy on EU.
  21. Nichos_Marr Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 26, 2001
    star 4
    As long as people are willing to tolerate EU answers in a movie forum thread without screaming that it isn't canon and that it sucks, I'm happy. I'm quite aware that EU isn't the definitive answer in this thread, and I respect that. Though it can still be presented as an answer, which will be accepted by some and not accepted by others.

    I think the main problem with using the EU in the movie forums is that someone is bound to say it isn't canon and others are bound to counter that. It seems to be the natural order of things on these boards. IMO, who cares if it's canon and who cares if it isn't? Many who do not regard the EU as canon at least regard it as speculative fiction, and that is why I think it should at least be brought up in some speculation threads.

    Enough of my ramblings. Good post, Lord_Hydronium :)

    (the same person as in the AOTC example; any guesses who?)

    Out of curiousity, was it by any chance Bib Fortuna, Twi'lek?
  22. SirLancelot Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 10, 2002
    star 4
    Lord_Hydronium, i applaud you!
  23. Lord_Hydronium Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2002
    star 5
    Out of curiousity, was it by any chance Bib Fortuna, Twi'lek?

    Now how'd you figure that one out? ;)
  24. HanSolo29 Manager Emeritus + Official Star Wars Artist

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2001
    star 6
    Here's my take on it:

    I accept most of the EU as canon except the stuff that contradicts the movies. For example, Boba Fett dying. Lucas showed Fett dying in ROTJ and put the burp in there to make sure the audience knew. But the EU brought him back. I don't accept that.

    And one more thing that bugs me...all these dumb new characters showing up and taking the place of the main characters from the movies. I started reading the books to find out what happened to these characters beyond the movies...but lately that hasn't been happening. They seem to center around the new characters and show very little of the movie characters. In fact, a lot of the books have the movie characters in dumb roles and seem out of place. And because of this reason...I am slowly moving away from the EU.
  25. SirLancelot Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 10, 2002
    star 4
    i depends on the story. some stories dont have any of the main characters in it, like most of the X-Wing books.


    i dont know about you, but if Han, Luke, and Leia did everything then i wouldent like the EU at all
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