Why does Obi Wan have such a hard time dueling Dooku?

I apologize if this is a redundant thread, but I didn't see anything as far back as I looked regarding this issue. My question is why does Dooku pose such a challenge to Obi Wan every time they duel. Now I know Dooku is a very elegant and masterful swordsman, but Obi Wan appears to be no slouch either. In ROTS the book , Mace Windu tells Obi Wan that he is "The Master," not just a master of the classic form Soresu. Now Obi Wan is the Jedi to have defeated Darth Maul, Grievous, and last but not least a very unfocused emotional Anakin, who when focused destroyed Dooku. So, I guess I'm still puzzled as to why Dooku just manhandles him everytime. At least in the book he lasted for a while, and there was a great twist regarding Anakin and Obi's strategy in fighting Dooku. Can anyone out there maybe shed some light on this for me, or is it just another plot hole, that is needed to support the movie's script and storyline?

 

Each time Anakin causes and imbalance in the force that takes out obi-wan. If he fought him alone after the purge...he would have defeated him.

 

Dooku is stronger than Obi-Wan, but unlike Anakin, Dooku is not emotionally unstable when he fights Obi-Wan.

 

So the only reason Dooku lost to Anakin is because Anakin focused his rage, and is more powerful than Dooku? Okay, but still how come Obi Wan can't seem to last the slightest bit with Dooku, after he already fought him once, and time has passed and he has matured and gotten stronger and wiser. Dooku wasn't exactly traveling the universe and fighting firsthand in the Clone Wars like Obi was as far as I know. He seemed more a behind the scenes guy, plotting away and working with Sidious.

 

Anakin is at the height of his powers, IMO, when he defeats Dooku. It seems the consensus is that Dooku simple has Obi-Wan's number, so to speak. Anakin fights masterfully against Dooku, and remember, Anakin is a VERY strong duelist. He's a level nine, above Obi-Wan and up there with Mace, Sidious, and Yoda. So, it's not a huge surprise the a properly focused Anakin could defeat Dooku. Anakin is known throughout the clone wars as an incredible warrior and "The hero with no fear"

Shouldn't underestimate the boy. He's the chosen one.

 

Dooku is better than Obi-wan. Let me put in the rankings as far as those which effect Obi-wan.

1. Anakin using the Dark Side controlled
2. Dooku
3. Obi-wan
4. Anakin using the Dark Side without control
5. Anakin
6. Maul
7. Grievous

Anakin's power shifts around a lot. Basically, Dooku has always been better than Obi-wan, but Maul and Grievous (as cool as they were) couldn't beat Obi.

 

And that says it all.

 

Anakin says it himself. ?My powers have doubled since the last time we met, Count.? Obi-Wan?s, however, haven?t so much. He?s always had a hard time with Dooku and as some have said, Dooku is stronger than Obi-Wan.

BTW, we?ve got some threads regarding that fight.

In-Depth Anakin and Obi-Wan vs. Count Dooku discussion.

*CRUNCH* Obi-wan vs Dooku issue.

 

Darth Maul was one of the best dualist in the entire galaxy. If you read Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter you'll know why. I'm pretty sure he would have been able to defeat Mace Windu. He has a double bladed lightsaber after all... So I dont understand why you put him so low on your list.

 

No a chance. Mace overpowered the guy who taught Darth Maul, Darth Sidious. Also, Obi-Wan killed Darth Maul when he was a mere Padawan. So much for Maul.

 

Point taken! But how come if Anakin is a level 9 up there with Mace, Sidious, and Yoda, and Obi Wan trained him, why can't he hang just a little bit longer with Dooku. Now I don't underestimate Anakin's power at all, and personally would have loved to seen him depicted even more powerful in the movie but I still think if Obi Wan can last for the entire duel and best an enraged psychopathic Anakin, he should be able to hang with Dooku longer.

 

That hardly an argument. Darth Maul had his back turned at that time, if he hadn't been so arrogant, he could have completely destroyed Obi Wan. He did defeat two Jedi at once, and one of them was one of the greatest dualist in the Jedi Order: Qui-Gon Jinn.

But anyway...

I dont believe that Dooku is stronger than Obi-Wan. But I do think that Dooku was "cheap" by tossing obi-wan away.

 

Now I love all the movies as they are , well maybe not entirely as in the case of parts of TPM and AOTC, and for the most part with the exception of Jar Jar I can overlook pretty much everthing else, but I still walk away from watching these films with questions sometimes. It's just my overly analytical nature I suppose. And the way Dooku just owns Obi Wan baffles me!

 

O.K., first off, you only quoted part of my argument and conviently left out the part where Mace defeated Sidious, who was, of course Maul's instructor and Master. Also, this business about Qui-Gon being one of the greatest duelists in the Jedi order? Where did you get that???
And, yes, regardless of Maul having his back turned or whatever other excuse you want to make, Obi-Wan defeat Maul when Obi-Wan was just a Padawan. Excuse it away all you want.

Secondly, how is Dooku using the force on Obi-Wan "cheap"? When Yoda does a force push on Sidious is that "cheap"? How about your beloved Darth Maul's force push? I could argue that was cheap. You don't think that force powers are a legitimate part of dueling? They are cheap? What about all the jumping around they do as they duel? Certainly they use the force as they do that.

My guess: There are a lot of assumptions being made based on the EU.

As for Qui-Gon being one of the greatest duelists in the Jedi Order: PPOR.

 

The question can easily be answered this way: Obi-Wan is in the same position as Peyton Manning and the Colts were in before last night's football game. Sometimes, someone's just go your number.

For Jordan, it was Detroit. For Barkley, Malone, Stockton, and Ewing, it was Jordan. For Manning, it's been the Patriots. For Obi-Wan, it's Dooku. Dooku's just got Obi's number in the dueling department.

 

If he wasn't so arrongant? That's like saying if the jedi weren't so patient...

That's part of being a Sith... impatience. You can't take away things that are part of the very fabric of an organization and then say that if you just took away that imperfection they'd be great.

 

Dooku is stronger, more powerful, and a far better duelist/swordsman than Obi-Wan. All of that makes Obi-Wan Jedi food for Dooku.

 

I dont see why Dooku can be stronger than Obi Wan, when he managed to defeat Anakin on Mustafar. Of course, you could say that Anakin was in some sort of "emotional state" but Obi Wan was also pretty emotional too.

 

Okay well in that case if Dooku trained Qui Gon, one of the best duelists in the Jedi order, who in turn trained Obi Wan, and Obi Wan eliminated Darth Maul who killed Qui Gon, then Dooku should not be that much stronger and more masterful than Obi!!

 

WSL, you don't happen to have that book do you? Perhaps you could post that passage.
You didn't even bother with the Maul argument, because you have no answer. Maul would have been no problem for Mace. It's ridiculous to think otherwise.

Also, in regards to Dooku being cheap in throwing Obi-Wan around, if it was really that easy, why wouldn't everyone do that? Then we could argue that Sidious could have just used the force to toss Mace out the window when he has him at saber point. Using the force during a saber battle seems to be a difficult thing to do - at least in the manner we're talking about.
Though, I don't think that force powers and saber battles are mutually exclusive; instead, I think that the Jedi and Sith are both constantly using the force as they fight, to focus and do those incredible leaps. When they see an opening, they use force push/lightning/force choke/force toss/force throw stuff at luke (ESB)...

 

Good point Wise Sith Lord, Obi Wan was emotional as well on Mustafar not just Anakin, he wasn't all cool and collected while Anakin was the only one who was a wreck!

 

Dooku had shown on two separate occasions that Kenobi was no match for him. If Obi-Wan used another style of fighting then maybe he could counter Dooku. Yoda and Anakin(2nd duel) had no problem with Dooku.

Plus one can honestly say that Anakin and Kenobi know each other so well. Obi-Wan trained Anakin so of course he's going to figure out a way to hang with Anakin and possibly defeat him.

 

Don't forget, according to Labyrinth of Evil, his other title: "Warrior of the Infinite"

Man, I loved that title so much more than "Hero Of No Fear"

Anyway - while I certainly agree that Mace would destroy Maul, I don't agree that just because Mace defeated Sidious in combat that instantly means that the person Sidious trained would be weaker than Mace.

- Dooku beat Obi-Wan in combat, Anakin beat Dooku - Obi-Wan trained Anakin.
- Maul beat Qui-Gon in combat, Obi-Wan beat Maul - Qui-Gon trained Obi-Wan

Anyway, I've got the book passage you requested: (though by the time I post someone will have already done it)

Qui-Gon Jinn was one of the most able swordsmen in the Jedi order. The Jedi Master he had trained under had considered him one the best the Master had taught in his more than four hundred years in the Order."

I assume that the Jedi Master referred to is Cin Drallig (I always did wonder why he was referred to as "The Troll")... since Dooku was no way 400... either that or it was a plot point that was discarded to make way for Dooku.

 

I'm still not seeing a really good reason for why Dooku always owns Obi Wan. I'm starting to think it just was made to fit the storyline, and help make a great movie.