PT Why does Obi-Wan not try to redeem Anakin?

If you look at ROTS's later scenes when Obi-Wan appears on Mustafar, you can clearly see he went to go to help or defeat Anakin.

How I see it is, Obi-Wan thought of redeeming him. Or more so, after all that he's done, he can't really think of a way to bring him back.

If you had a friend like that, who went so far down the line like Anakin, would you *try* to redeem this psychotic fool? Could you?

 

If I had a friend who destroyed the only family I've ever known, destabilized the government I've shed blood to protect AND started Force Choking his wife before my very eyes, I probably wouldn't even consider trying to redeem him. We're lucky Obi-Wan adheres so strictly to the Jedi Code otherwise we'd have seen him charge out of that ship brandishing his lightsaber in a blind fury.

 

I wish they would have kept some of this dialogue
I wrote some down:

Obi-Wan: "The dark side is not the way"
Anakin: "You can't stop me, you are too late."

Obi-Wan: "Anakin, please, come back to the light. Face up to what you have done. I can help you."
Anakin: "It's too late for that, you are too late. You only want to help yourself."
Obi-Wan: "You know thats not true"

Obi-Wan: "I don't want to fight you."
Anakin: "You are trying to confuse me, it won't work."

Obi-Wan: "You become a puppet of the Sith."
Anakin: "This is your fault!"

Obi-Wan: "How could you turn your back on all that you are?! I will bring you down!"

Obi-Wan: "I only wanted what was best for you Anakin. I wasn't prepared to train someone like you.."
Anakin: "That's your failing, not mine"
Obi-Wan: "Perhaps I did fail you, but I won't abandon you to the dark side.."
Anakin: "Thats not your decision to make."


Anakin: "Now I am the master."

Anakin: "You are nothing to me now."

Anakin: "Don't force me to kill you!"

 

Perhaps Obi-Wan felt that Anakin was too far gone to be saved.

 

darth-sinister wrote

This was never consistent in the OT. Palpatine and Vader didn't know where Luke was in ROTJ, and Palpatine doesn't even sense Luke arriving at Endor. In ANH, Vader senses Obi-wan is on the Death Star, but not inside of the Millennium Falcon. He doesn't even sense Luke until he goes to destroy the Death Star. In TESB, they don't know that Yoda is alive and on Dagobah where Luke is. Hell, Vader is ten feet from Luke on Hoth, but doesn't bother to walk to the other end of the hangar to find him.

1. We don't even know they were actively looking for Luke in ROJ, with the Emperor anticipating that Luke would come to them
2. Yes, it's odd that Vader senses Luke but Palpatine doesn't. But Vader and Luke met face-to-face, that proably established a link
3. It's inconclusive, Vader probably knew that Kenobi was onboard the Falcon but was curious to see what he'd do next.
4. Did he really sense Luke or Kenobi's "more powerful" spirit helping Luke?
5. Neither were they aware of Yoda in ROJ, until Luke's thoughts betrayed him (according to the ROJ novelization). There's still the theory that the dark side was so strong on Dagobah, that Yoda's Force signature was covered
6. Luke was outside walking towards his X-Wing in close proximity to the Falcon's flight path. Maybe that's why Vader thought Luke aboard (according to the ESB novelization).

The interesting point remains the "great disturbance in the Force" in ESB. I'm not sure whether it's only Luke or the fact that Yoda, Luke and Kenobi's "powerful" spirit congregate, causing a (dark side?) disturbance.

 

1. PALPATINE: "And now I sense you wish to continue your search for young Skywalker."

Vader's been searching for Luke for the better part of a year. He's only recently been directed elsewhere to handle another matter for Palpatine. But Palpatine has foreseen Luke seeking out Vader and has planned accordingly.

2. Possibly as I've noted in past conversations, but my point still remains that it wasn't automatically sensed.

3. That makes him really stupid if he knew that he was on the Falcon. No, the Stormtroopers haven't found anyone on board and Vader orders it to be scanned with technology. So he's not convinced it is entirely empty, but he is convinced that Obi-wan isn't aboard either.

4. Vader says that the Force is strong with this pilot, which comes after Luke starts to use the Force to direct the shot.

5. Either way, they don't sense that he is still alive and Vader thinks only Obi-wan was involved.

6. That's not clear in the film that he thinks that Luke is on the Falcon.

What the Sith sense is Luke about to meet Yoda. But they don't know that why they can sense this disturbance.

 

darth-sinister wrote

That makes him really stupid if he knew that he was on the Falcon. No, the Stormtroopers haven't found anyone on board and Vader orders it to be scanned with technology. So he's not convinced it is entirely empty, but he is convinced that Obi-wan isn't aboard either.

Why stupid? He must know that the source of the "presence" has to be aboard the Falcon. Instead of waiting for results, he suddenly walks off to talk to Tarkin (of all the people...) about the experience. I believe that was the moment he knew that there was a rescue party hidden aboard but didn't want to obstruct their efforts (realizing that should they free the Princess, they'd lead him to the hidden Rebel base).

Vader says that the Force is strong with this pilot, which comes after Luke starts to use the Force to direct the shot.

BEN'S VOICE Use the Force, Luke. ... Let go, Luke.

VADER The Force is strong with this one!

Vader notices that the Force is strong with this X-Wing pilot, after Obi-Wan has started to "mess" with Luke. I agree it's inconclusive whether the erratic movement of Luke's X-Wing is because of Obi-Wan doing something or Luke letting the Force control his (maneuvering) actions.

That's not clear in the film that he thinks that Luke is on the Falcon.

Correct, yet the earlier screenplay draft clearly implied that Vader thought Luke was aboard the Falcon.

 

He's stupid because he doesn't walk aboard with Lightsaber in hand and seek him out personally. Instead, he goes to tell Tarkin. And as to the script for TESB, if it isn't in the film, then it is irrelevant. The films come first.

 

It's worth remembering that for Vader it has been over 20 years since everything happened. I know it's hard to do, but imagine it from Vader's angle -- as Stover and Lucas expressed in stuff regarding ROTS, Vader doesn't think he's really betrayed anyone. From the point of view of Vader, he thinks everyone else betrayed him. "Obi-Wan once thought as you do." And there's some evidence from the films that Vader directs all of his ire directly at Kenobi.

In that scene, Luke is trying to get Vader to turn away from the Dark Side. Obi-Wan also expressed to Anakin that what he was thinking was wrong, and afterwards he cries out to him that, "You were meant to destroy the Sith, not join them! Bring balance to the Force, not leave it in darkness." These are some of the last words that Vader hears from Kenobi for 20 years. This is what he has to think about when he does think about it: Obi-Wan believing that Anakin was destined for more than a dark side life. Anakin's grown up all the time hearing he was the Chosen One. Surely in the 20 years after the events of ROTS he's rationalized this somehow. He probably rationalized it as the counterpoint to what Kenobi was saying: either I was meant to join the Sith, or, the Chosen One stuff is just Jedi nonsense. Now, Luke is telling Anakin that maybe there's another way. Maybe he wasn't meant to join the Sith after all. It's worth considering that the Jedi thinking is that once you go bad, that's it for you -- you're bad. Luke doesn't believe that. And it takes a while for Vader to really realize the depth of Luke's disbelief in this concept until he sees it demonstrated in front of him. This reminds me I should write that essay regarding Vader's psychology... so much to explore.

But overall it comes down to this:

1. Vader has hated Kenobi and Kenobi was a good guy that didn't want Vader to go bad. Luke seems like a good guy, and he doesn't want Vader to go bad. Simple as that.
2. Luke believes Vader is meant for more than just being a dark side user. Obi-Wan also believed this before the events of Revenge of the Sith -- which, remember, Vader sees in reverse to how we would see it. He wouldn't see himself as really betraying Obi-Wan -- he might even see himself as being easy on Obi-Wan considering he didn't try to kill him before the rest of the Jedi. Vader would simply see Obi-Wan simply losing his faith in Vader while Vader did what he thought he needed to for the good of the galaxy, but Obi-Wan was being blinded by the Jedi aversion to the dark side (and on that point, he's not wrong...). It's why Anakin/Vader says, in reference to Padme's plea about Obi-Wan, Anakin/Vader says he doesn't know what will happen to Obi-Wan. That means Anakin/Vader doesn't already want to kill Obi-Wan, he thinks Obi-Wan might still be okay with him. This, of course, is way off-base, and it's clear that Obi-Wan has lost total faith in Vader by the end. The lack of Obi-Wan's belief in Vader might have really affected him afterwards. So when he's referring to it in past-tense, he really means past-tense -- ie. before the end of ROTS, Obi-Wan believed otherwise, but for some reason, Obi-Wan changed. So, from Vader's point of view, it may be a mix of lament and simple stating of the facts.
3. Vader's had 20 years to twist his memories around. We saw how Obi-Wan kind of romanticized the Jedi Order in ANH. I'm thinking some similar memory altering is exactly what happened in Vader's case too. He's not an objective witness here.
4. Perhaps Vader is referring to something rather global -- Obi-Wan was once his friend who believed in him -- rather than a specific exchange.
5. Perhaps Vader is referring to a specific exchange we did not see in any of the films.
6. Bringing up Padme would probably be extremely painful for Vader, especially to his son Luke, so there's virtually no way that he's gonna bring her up.
7. Perhaps at this point, Vader's really started to change. Maybe he hates himself for changing and has started to regret it. Perhaps he looks back now and sees that Obi-Wan was probably trying to help him, but that Vader wouldn't allow it. "You don't know the power of the dark side. I must obey my master." He's referring to a dual thing here. Obeying the dark side, and obeying Palpatine. And he did both in ROTS when he tried to fight and kill Obi-Wan. Maybe deep down he didn't really want to?? And he would realize that Obi-Wan was in a defensive posture the whole battle, even reluctant to fight at first. Maybe this is an admission of regret from Vader? In this scene it makes sense. And we all know that between two good friends, sometimes no words are needed. Anakin/Vader probably sensed Obi-Wan's real feelings about him, and Obi-Wan didn't have to say them. He would have known how much Obi-Wan wanted him to stay on the light side.
8. Vader has no illusions about why he's bringing Luke to the Emperor. He knows full well that there's gonna be a battle and he's gonna fight his son. A part of him is probably even resigned to the fact that he might lose. The fact that Luke doesn't want to fight Vader is the same as how Obi-Wan didn't want to fight Anakin/Vader. And neither Luke nor Obi-Wan could actually bring themselves to kill Vader.
9. Obi-Wan sees the dark side as something undesirable, almost a sickness. Luke clearly doesn't embrace it either. Vader could be referring to their somewhat similar views of the dark side, which may also be why Vader follows it up with a comment about how Luke doesn't know the power of the dark side. Anakin/Vader makes an almost identical comment on Mustafar to Obi-Wan when he says that he doesn't fear the dark side like Obi-Wan does.

Overall, there are many possible answers. Yes, the out-of-universe explanations are there for those who need them, but I think in-universe it also makes sense. Plus, maybe -- just maybe -- the writers intended for at least some of this as I laid out above. I'm thinking at least a few are right on.

Honestly it seems like a global statement. It is true that Obi-Wan did try to reason with Anakin on the platform on Mustafar. He also really showed belief in him before Obi-Wan left for Utapau. Plus Vader knows Obi-Wan trained Luke, and I think that factors into it. So I think there is sound reason for Vader's statement here, given his fixation on Kenobi.

 

You could argue he did hope for his return, but approached it (until he comes to admit his failings) as the rigid/stern teacher we saw him as in AOTC in contrast to the more sensitive and compassionate approach Luke uses when talking to him about coming back in ROTJ. He gives Anakin the chance to choose to let-go of Padme rather than stopping it himself, he pushes that he has become the thing he swore to destroy "until now" as if the door were still open in that moment for him to choose to turn things around (saying that phrase twice), and after Anakin makes his big proclamation about allegiances Obi-Wan has a an air of resignation about him (in contrast to his disbelief/denial in the Temple) when he talks about how "Only a Sith deals in absolutes" and pulls out his saber. (Not to mention given how long their conversation he seemed to try and give Padme some to talk him down before stepping in himself when that went south) He also does eventually in a less forceful sort of way come around to accepting some blame for what became of Anakin, which does come off as him trying to reach through to him again, but after Anakin's declaration of the viewing the Jedi as evil Obi-Wan once again seeming resigned finally declares, "Than you are lost". Plus there's how he revealed that at the end of the day he had coming around to believing he was the Chosen One. Whether one believes Vader meant that Obi-Wan left the door open for returning after his fall or that Obi-Wan simply believed he was once a good man I don't think there's a complete disconnect. Regardless I think one can argue that what Vader had told us in ROTJ of the Jedi was still true......from a certain point of view.

 

Doesn't he in ROTS? Obi-Wan tries to reason with Anakin before and even during the fight that Anakin has it wrong about the Jedi, the Sith, and the Republic. Anakin refuses to believe Obi-Wan though, so he had no choice but to kill Vader, in which he failed to do because of his own love for Anakin as a brother.

 

I don't think Kenobi has a good track record, he tried reasoning and bringing Maul to the Light but that failed as he just made him more angry with his comments as he himself was very arrogant and angry and full of hubris . This was Maul's main means of revenge, just expose Kenobi as a fraud,to make him see he was not of the Jedi way himself. I think on saving Vos he did a better job oddly enough, than he did Anakin, even Yoda. Its not clear why Vos could be saved but not Anakin, also unclear with that "forever will it dominate your destiny" stuff . Maybe Anakin and Maul had a deeper hatred for Kenobi while Vos not really at all. Anakin was fiercely jealous, unappreciative and resentful of Kenobi on a few levels all going back to AOTC. One of the key failures of TCW was that they made Anakin and Kenobi too friendly and did not really portray the animosity between the two that was present in the PT. Kenobi was not really calm or Jedi-like in the exchanges on Mustafar either, he was visibly and verbally angry and bitter at Anakin for what he did and what he had become, especially the slaughter of the younglings. Kenobi was not there redeem Anakin, but to bring him to justice and avenge the Jedi and save the Republic. And we're told all the Jedi are corrupted by the Dark Side via the Sith, then even Yoda and Kenobi are under its spell and try to be absolutist themselves. Yoda of Rebels is different from the TCW and even OT apparently, so its not like they're remaining that true established narrative . Taking a life and war are against the Jedi way we're reminded, yet Kenobi and Yoda were essentially lying to and manipulating and even attempting to shape Luke into a weapon of their own revenge against the Sith and to reestablish their own dominance in the galaxy.