CT Why Does Palpatine Want a Stronger Apprentice?

Aside from the Emperor and Luke, Vader is the most powerful person in the galaxy. Vader would have been a great successor; he would continue to rule with an iron fist and would not be able to overthrow Palpatine during his reign.

Luke, on the other hand, had the potential to become powerful enough to depose Palpatine. Why would Palpatine want Luke as his apprentice then? If Vader can continue a strong legacy while not being a strong threat to Palpatine's rule, why would he want to replace Vader?

While on this topic, it begs the question: Why do Sith want their apprentices to be powerful if their MO is to selfishly hoard supreme power for themselves?

 

Vader at this point is half machine and not more powerful than Palpatine or has powerful as he could have been. He's broken. Luke has more potential.

 

Why wouldn't one want a more powerful apprentince? Why settle for a weaker one when there's a potentially far stronger one in plain view, ripe for the turning?

 

Because a stronger apprentice can kill you, whereas a weaker one more likely cannot.

It seems like the Sith have 2 conflicting goals

(1) Seize as much power as possible only for themselves

(2) Find really powerful apprentices who have the potential to take your power from you one day

 

That's just how the sith work bruh

 

It's the way of the Sith. To gather as much power as possible. Also, no true Sith would want the weaker apprentice. One wants the strong apprentice on their side. If you don't, that stronger apprentice might come back later and kill you.

Between Luke and Vader, Luke is the stronger of the two. Vader is getting older and is limited by his numerous injuries. Luke is younger and growing more and more powerful. Plus Sidious wants to "complete his training" which would limit Luke so he can never kill him.

 

an apprentice is still an apprentice no matter how powerful they are, even "the chosen one". the master knows more than the apprentice so the master is always in control.

 

it's the way of the Sith. He 's not opposed to killing Luke either. Plus, as much as Sidious might like to live forever he hasn't mastered that so he still needs the Sith Order to go on.

 

Luke was more powerful, Darth Vader was damaged before he reached his full potential. Luke is also younger, and can do the Emporers bidding for another 30+ years, that is, if he doesn't overthrow him first.

I don't really get 100% why the Emporer feels he needed a new apprentice though, DV kinda took out all the Jedi and was doing a pretty good job of keeping a tight fist on the galaxy. What was Luke needed for, exactly, when his father already finished the job? I fail to believe Palps was that devoted of a Sith that he felt he needed to be overthrown for the rule of two to come to fruition. I feel like he's too selfish, and actually enjoyed having Vader forever being stunted underneath him...

 

Why wouldn't he?

 

The Sith Order's supposed aim to to continually advance the power of the order. So an apprentice is chosen who will one day overpower the master, or die trying. I don't think Vader was ever going to achieve that in The Emperor's view. Hence, he looked towards Luke. On the other hand, it seems a bit odd in light of the fact that The Emperor had already achieved the Sith goal of galactic domination. In the context of the OT alone, I'd say The Emperor just wanted the most powerful right hand man as he could find.

 

I don't think he wanted a stronger apprentice so much as the strongest apprentice. Luke was a threat as a powerful Jedi-to-be, and his connection to Vader was also dangerous, so he wanted one dead and the other at his side. I don't think he considered it a particular risk that either would depose him (nor do I think he was following some sort of code regarding an apprentice inevitably killing his master). Together they could, though, hence why he pitted them against each other.

Palpatine was arrogant enough to think that he could keep whichever one survived under his thumb. The option he didn't consider was the one which eventuated - Luke refusing to turn, then Vader turning back. Overconfidence again.

 

I would think he wanted a stronger apprentice because he was a good Sith! : ) He killed his master, proving that he was stronger, I'm sure his master didn't " Allow" this.. it is just that he had reached the point where he could.. and not that he desired that his apprentice kill him... but he certainly wanted the strongest apprentice to be his, as any good sith would. If that was Vader.. good, all his training paid off, he would especially know where his allegiance lied if he killed his own son ( although you would think killing all those younglings would have proven this ) And if Luke won.. great as well! That would prove him strong, as well of probably turned him to the dark side.. It was a win win for the emperor.. this is just my thoughts on his thoughts though... : )

 

"And when he finds out Luke is his son, his first impulse is to figure out a way of getting him to join him to kill the Emperor. That's what Siths do! He tries it with anybody he thinks might be more powerful, which is what the Emperor was looking for in the first place: somebody who would be more powerful than he was and could help him rule the universe. But Obi-Wan screwed that up by cutting off his arms and legs and burning him up. From then on, he wasn't as strong as the Emperor -- he was like Darth Maul or Count Dooku. He wasn't what he was supposed to become. But the son could become that."

--George Lucas, Rolling Stones Interview, 2005.

"The Emperor wants Luke to kill Vader so that he will have a new young Jedi. Lets face it Vader is half mechanical and he is not half as good as he could be. He is not nearly as good as he was hoping Anakin would become because Anakin ends up in the suit. He is hoping he gets a new better apprentice in Luke. If he kills his father then he would take his place as an apprentice; which actually there is something that in the next film is how Anakin becomes his apprentice. There are a lot of things repeated in these movies. Fathers vs Sons."

--George Lucas, ROTJ DVD Commentary.

It's all about power. Unlimited power.

 

Interesting reading those Lucas comments. And the son became the very opposite of what the Emperor wanted and ultimately brought balance to the Force decades later. I always knew that, but that first comment cements that connection and result.

 

I think in part, Palpatine was playing a game. It was a game that was extremely risky, but one that he was overconfident about and for which he never expected the end result. The Rule of Two aside, Palpatine was in a position in which he had already achieved the Grand Plan for exterminating the Jedi and implementing Sith control of the galaxy. He had an apprentice who had been doing his dirty work for the last two decades. He didn't need Luke, but with a little more potential in recruiting him at play, he thought he could pit father against son against one another and stick with whoever came out on top. If Vader was stronger and killed Luke, he'd have lost nothing. If Luke was stronger and killed Vader, he'd have a new apprentice... "one far younger and more powerful." It's a game Palpatine has been playing since ROTS, with the cards typically falling in his favor. As always, Palpatine expected things were going to work out to his benefit, but his overconfidence forgot one thing Yoda had told him long ago... "Your faith in your apprentice, misplaced may be."

 

The Sith are consumed by their own ego. They are not entirely rational beings. Having said that, nothing is brings more power than absolute control of the most powerfull, so it makes a twisted sense. Besides, how can Palps ever even imagine that he will actually be killed, when he has "Unlimited Powah!!"

 

Because he's getting old and the only other Sith is basically an aging burn victim hooked up to a life support system and because of that can't tap into the full potential of the Dark Side. Luke's potential is basically what he wished Vader had had he not gotten chopped and fried on Mustafar.

 

Stronger because he killed his Master in his sleep?

 

Darth_Nub pretty much covers it above. Together, Luke and Vader pose a potential threat to him, so he needs to dispose of one. So he pits them against each other to see who's the most powerful.

 

The Sith crave power. Sidious knows he needs a very powerful apprentice to help him carry on the legacy of the Sith. I mean look at his previous 2 apprentices. Maul and Dooku. They were both very powerful but in different ways. Maul was brute strength and Dooku had the knowledge and mastery of the force. Luke would have been the best choice, well only choice really. Sidious would have already have a semi trained apprentice that Sidious would only need to just help him brush up on his skills and Luke would be a force to be reckoned with.

 

This is still my favourite post on Why The Sith Want The Most Powerful Apprentice They Can Manage:

 

The Rule of Two really broke down during the Clone Wars. Including Ventress as a sith, there were 5 at one point. Sidious and Tyranus, and Maul and Savage.

 

Ventress was never a Sith. She was a dark side adept that served the Sith. Palpatine excommunicated Maul when he came there to fight him and Savage, the latter of whom was killed. In fact, that whole ordeal is proof of why the rule exists. Palpatine fears that Ventress will grow too strong to control and that she would try to overthrow them, which is why he orders Dooku to kill her. When Palpatine realizes that Maul is alive and growing strong with his brother, he went in search of them to eliminate them as a threat. Then he used Maul to remove an even greater threat in Mother Talzin. Later on, Palpatine and Vader recruited the Inquisitor who was not a Sith and he's served them. Vader handled his training as Dooku did with Ventress, but neither were Sith. But the Inquisitor is not strong enough to challenge Vader, much less Palpatine.