Why does ROTS' opening pretend Palpatine is not Sidious?

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by -maynard-, Aug 16, 2005.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. SlytherinHouse Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 20, 2000
    star 4
    I figured it out in 1997 when they announced that there was a character named Palpatine and he was played by the same man that played Palpatine in 1983. It's not rocket surgery.

    Sly
  2. Sidious_T Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2004
    star 4
    "Are you reffering to me, Sidios T?

    I don't know what you are talking about if you are.

    I don't personally like the character of Sidous at all. I love Palpatine but as Sidous I hate him. Hated him since 83. What a cheesy villan. His first scene in ROTJ cracks me up everytime and thats not GOOOD. Ruined ROTJ IMO.


    Hahahahahahahaha!

    What a joke...."

    no not you.
  3. Capell123 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 1, 2005
  4. SlytherinHouse Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 20, 2000
    star 4
    :D

    Sly
  5. namnlos Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2005
    star 3
    Some people thought the cute little kid in TPM was young Luke, so maybe George was playing safe ;)
  6. r8hitman Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2004
    star 4
    ^^I agree with this.

    I thought the cheering was for Anakin's benefit.:confused:

    Just like: "good. Use your aggresive feelings, boy."[face_devil]
  7. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    His first scene in ROTJ cracks me up everytime and thats not GOOOD.

    [face_laugh]

    Good thing he never said "Baaaaaaaaaaaaad".

  8. Clone_Commander169 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 11, 2005
    star 4
  9. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 10
    Alfred Hitchcock was one of those directors who believe that it's better for the audience to know something bad is about to happen, than to surprise them out of the blue. That the anticipation is sweeter than the shock value of a plot point. Lucas, in his own way, was following that with Palpatine.

    And yes, Dooku did know that Palpatine is Sidious. It's been well documented that he did know.
  10. Somnambulist_ZZZ Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 1
    Yes, that is the classic one. As far as not knowing Sidious = Palpatine, the Emperor back in 1983 was Emperor Palpatine. Coincidence?

    However, if watching from Episode I, I could understand not knowing, and I think that was the point. In AOTC, Dooku tells Obi-Wan that 'hundreds of Senators are now under the control of a Sith lord...'. In politics, it's easy for one Senator to have a huge following and control a lot of sway, so to say that that statement immediately pointed the finger at the Supreme Chancellor is a bit of an assumption. He could be refering to anyone really, bureaucrats, senate members, etc. Besides all that, there are thousands of star systems, not hundreds in the Senate. If Dooku had told Kenobi, 'The thousands of star systems in the Senate are all now under the control of a Sith lord named...', then it might be a more corrupting decree.
  11. Darth_Davi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2005
    star 4
    It was obvious to anyone that paid attention to Return of the Jedi. Look, in TPM, Senator Palpatine is played by Ian McDiarmid, the same actor that played the Emperor in Jedi. The very introduction to the Star Wars novelization tells us that the Emperor's name is Palpatine. So, that connection was made already. Then, the first time we ever see and hear Sidious, it is obvious that not only does he bear a SIGNIFICANT resemblence to the Emperor in Jedi, as soon as you hear him speak, you know its the same voice. Even though in TPM Darth Sidious is uncredited, its clearly Ian McDiarmid.

    Senator/Supreme Chancellor Palpatine in TPM, AOTC, ROTS = Ian McDiarmid
    Emperor Palpatine in ROTJ = Ian McDiarmid
    Darth Sidious in TPM, AOTC, ROTS = Ian McDiarmid
    Darth Sidious = Palpatine

    What was so hard to figure out?
  12. -maynard- Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2005
    star 3
    just for the record, the part where he cheers happens after Obi-Wan slices up the battle droids.

    two times he shows a concerened look: when they first engage dooku and then when obi-wan gets tossed

    so his reactions were not only for anakin
  13. COMMANDER76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2005
    star 4
    palpatine had a definite interest in the dooku/kenobi/anakin duel....he cheered obi-wan slice the battle driods as a fellow lightsaber artist.....and showed concern for kenobi when dooku slamed him under that platform. he wanted to yell, "KILL HIM!!! I SAID TO KILL KENOBI!!!! dammit dooku you can't do ANYTHING right can you!!!"..........but he couldn't...lol
  14. Mikaboshi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2005
    star 6
    It was obvious to anyone that paid attention to Return of the Jedi. Look, in TPM, Senator Palpatine is played by Ian McDiarmid, the same actor that played the Emperor in Jedi. The very introduction to the Star Wars novelization tells us that the Emperor's name is Palpatine. So, that connection was made already. Then, the first time we ever see and hear Sidious, it is obvious that not only does he bear a SIGNIFICANT resemblence to the Emperor in Jedi, as soon as you hear him speak, you know its the same voice. Even though in TPM Darth Sidious is uncredited, its clearly Ian McDiarmid.

    Dude I don't see that the fans are confused about that, everyone here seems to know that Palpatine=Sidious, as you said it is very clear by the end of AotC. Who it is not clear to is the actual Star Wars characters, that is why Palpatine had to keep up the ruse. Yes we know that Ian McDiarmid is the actor that plays the Emporer, but do the Jedi in the TPM/AotC/ and RotS know that, no they don't.

    Try to keep your fan knowledge seperate from the SW characters knowledge, I am sure if Qui Gon Jinn had the benefit of seeing RotJ he would have quickly come to the same conclusionm and the PT could have ended with TPM.
  15. MiaTiska Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2005
    star 1
    It's not an insult to the audience's intelligence. Palpatine was playing the part of the innocent, helpless kidnap victim for the sake of Obi-Wan and Anakin in the room. To them, that's who he was. A nice guy, if a bit incompetent, and would be cheering on the Jedi who have come to "rescue" him. Dooku knew that Palpatine was Sidious, knew that Palp/Sidious would be "cheering" on the Jedi as part of the charade, but clearly was not expecting Sidious to tell Anakin to kill him.

    Someone said that the opening held a bit of humor, and it did that for me. A bit of disbelief mixed in with the humor as well, that Palps was able to pull off his acting jobs so well. We (well, most of us) in the audience know Palpatine is Sidious -- but the characters of Obi-Wan and Anakin do not. His cheering them on was to keep up the charade of the helpless Chancellor a little bit longer, nothing more, because:
    It wasn't in Palpatine's plan yet to reveal himself as Darth Sidious yet. :) Hence, he had to be Palpatine and "cheer" on the Jedi.

    -Mia
  16. yoshifett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2004
    star 5
    I still think the cheer is just Sidious watching the fight and enjoying it. He cheers just as Obi-Wan cuts the battle droid down.
  17. -maynard- Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2005
    star 3
    i guess so. it was your thread about this deul that reminded me of how much that part annoyed me.
  18. DARTH_BELO Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2003
    star 4
    I don't think he really meant all of it-it was only for Anakin (and in parts, Obi-Wan) to be decieved-I mean look at how Palpatine takes all the physical stuff they had to do! especially like hanging from the lift shaft!! Not too bad of physical ability for a pampered politician, eh?????
  19. JustinPeeler Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 3, 2003
    star 4
    He wanted Dooku to kill Obi Wan, not some super-battle droid. The cheer was real.
  20. yoshifett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2004
    star 5
    I don't think there's compelling evidence either way, so I'll just believe that he's an evil man who likes seeing his own droid get cut in half by his mortal enemies.
  21. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 10
    Some people didn't make the connection of the Emperor to Palpatine. The reason being is that in the OT, he is never called Palpatine or Sidious. And not everyone knew who Ian McDiarmid was. Some still don't. Also, there were people who thought that Ian really was an old guy, with some makeup enhancements. They didn't know that he was only 39 in 1982. In TPM, they made the connection of Sidious to the Emperor. But not to Palpatine. Some missed the clues that were staring them in the face. A few got it in AOTC, but still not many did. ROTS was the capper that cleared it up, especially when he started talking like the Emperor and even looking like him. There were those who had figured it out long ago and were waiting for the big payoff.

    Anyway, I think Palpatine was cheering Anakin on to kill Dooku, but also for Dooku to kill Obi-wan first. It's just designed to look ambigious until Palpatine tells Anakin to kill Dooku.
  22. mynameismyown Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2005
    star 3
    sidious is a great actor thats why many posters thought that palpatine was a clone of sidious
  23. mandragora Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2005
    star 4
    Exactly. I think apart from keeping the knowledge of spectators separate from what the characters know (which imo oftentimes doesn't seem to work) we have to distinguish what people posting in SW forums know and what the average spectator knows. The great majority of the people going to theatres to see these films are NOT surfing the internet for information, are NOT reading the novels or other stuff, and are NOT discussing the movies for hours. So a lot of them didn't know the Emperor's name in the OT was Palpatine. A lot of them haven't even seen all of the movies. Goodness, they even dubbed Ian with two different voices for Palps and Sidious in TPM and AOTC in Germany! For people without much background information it wasn't that obvious at all that Sidious was Palpatine.
  24. brook_33 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2003
    star 4
    There's no surprise if they just say it. It has to be a big revelation. Besides, the audience is for the most part having the story told to them through the Jedi's eyes.
  25. Master_EdgeCrusher Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2005
    star 3
    they all have to figure by then that the chin and nose has got to give it away!
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.