Why does ROTS' opening pretend Palpatine is not Sidious?

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by -maynard-, Aug 16, 2005.

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  1. TheDarkSideAreThey Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2004
    star 1
    It's only for those who have yet to make the connection (all 3 of them). Even in the OT, Palpatine is always referred to as "The Emperor", so someone could believe that Sidious and Palpatine are two different people.
  2. Chancellor_Ewok Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 6
    Exactly. The big twist of the PT is that revealation that Palpatine=Sidious.
  3. Darth_Kermit Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2003
    star 3
    I thought the cheering was for Dooku. Doesn't it happen when Obi-wan gets kicked in the head?

    I remember reading something about it implying that he and Dooku talked about killing Obi-wan to make it easier to turn Anakin?

  4. mjerome3 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2000
    star 6
    It was the perfect way to cover up the kidnapping. I remember reading Labyrinth of Evil and the Jedi were very close to nabbing Sidious so the Sith caused the diversion with Palpatine being kidnapped to take the attention away from Sidious.

    I think it was done to make people believe that they were still two different characters, no matter what others thought about it. To me it was great story telling!
  5. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 10
    The point was to make it ambigious, but the epicenter appears to be Palpatine. We're supposed to start to see it more outright than in TPM and AOTC.
  6. Grey1 Host: 181st Imperial Discussion Group

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    Member Since:
    Nov 21, 2000
    star 4
    Actually, they managed to get it right in AOTC. I don't know how, though - maybe they thought nobody would notice "the wrong voice" as Sidious had only one scene ;)

    I had no problem with Palpatine acting like he was on the Jedi's side. Ep1 and Ep2 would have been for nothing if Lucas hadn't continued on his "pretend no-one knows"-course. The movies could have worked in a different way (with Palpatine's point of view clearly shown in his scenes), but as the story is about deception and treachery (the whole Clone Wars are a setup to take control), this way it makes more sense.

    It could have worked if Palpatine had formed an open dictatorship, doing evil things all the time. The Jedi would have been more like the rebels from the OT, some non-official caste devoted to good causes and trying to help the oppressed people from the outside, with Anakin being an ambigious character finally convinced by Palpatine that it's better to join his side. You know, like in fantasy - a party of adventurers has to take down the evil wizard/king ruling the country, only that one of them finally betrays them.
  7. mastersith69 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2005
    star 1
    i thought it was obvious in aotc by his makeup mess up becasue he even looked like the emperor, the main ticker was the opening scene in the second trailer when he was talking and that solidified to the nation to go "hey he is the emperor". had they not done that big give away then the reveal might of been more of a shock to us. but in the opening of the movie it was obvious it was setup because just look how calm he was the whole time and you would think he would be happy to see the jedi and get rescued by the jedi. also in the labryinth of evil sidious had the plan to be kidnapped from coruscant because grevious and dooku even said they needed a way to get him away form the planet undetected and even yoda felt when sidious was off the planet which happened to be when palpatine was kidnapped.
  8. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 10
    It wasn't meant to be a big twist for us. It's meant more for the people who watch from I to VI. They start to suspect that Palpatine's not entirely good. Palpatine's cheer was for Dooku to kill Obi-wan, so that Anakin could kill Dooku. Unfortunately, Dooku botched the job in killing Obi-wan. Well, fortunately for the galaxy he botched it. Unfortunately for Palpatine, Obi-wan lived to mess up Anakin.
  9. Wrongway Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2005
    I was under the impression that Palps little "cheer" during the opening duel, looked like Palps was warning Dooku that Obi-Wan was coming up behind him. Immediately after you see him cheer, it cuts to the duel and you see Dooku turn around and force choke Obi.

    I say this because, before he cheers, you see Obi tear apart those two droids, then it cuts to Palps, then the force choke. There's no implication that he was cheering for Anakin.

    So, IMO, it was either a fake cheer for Obi or a warning for Dooku. Palps whole plan was to eventually get Ani and Dooku alone so Ani would commit murder. So helping Dooku in the beginning would still benefit in Palps overall plan.

    Wrongway
  10. TheCRZA Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2005
    star 4
    My son - who was 6 at the time - didn't see it coming.
    It was a nice moment of discovery sharing that revelation
    with him at the theater.
    I thought it was also a nice teaser for us know-it-alls
    who've wondered if maybe he would end up not being Sidious.
    If he was a clone, etc etc...
    There is a built in suspense where we wonder...
    when does he Sith out?
  11. bongoskywalker Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2005
    Darth Sinister posted

    "Some people didn't make the connection of the Emperor to Palpatine. The reason being is that in the OT, he is never called Palpatine or Sidious"

    And yet i have always known that the Emperors name is Palpatine.
    Was the name used for promotional / merchandising purposes in the OT era?

    The only EU i have ever read is the Marvel UK comics of that time. And the the back of the cards contained with action figures. Around 1983.
    I watched all of the prequels completely spoiler free - even trailers!

    When i went to see TPM, as soon as i heard the name - i new the score.

    Er.. i aint really got a point here, except having read this thread im curious as to how i might have known this!






  12. adamlee Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2004
    star 2
    They don't reveal it because it is meant to be one long story. The only reason we know who Palps is is because we saw it backwards. Sure, we put it together but to a new person, it shows he is deceptive even in who he cheers for.
  13. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 10
    It was in the novelizations for ANH and ROTJ. It was with his figure. And some of the merchendising material, but stuff like poster books and guide books of the day.
  14. darth254 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 14, 2004
    star 1
    With all the opportunities Dooku has had to kill Obi-Wan in AOTC and ROTS, I begin to wonder if he respected Obi-Wan instead of botching things up THAT bad. Is he secretly hoping that by turning Anakin, he can get Obi-Wan to turn? Losing Qui-Gon got him to turn.

    Odd that he doesn't suggest to Anakin that Obi-Wan is dead during their fight in ROTS nor does he check to see if he finished the job. He's looked incredibly sloppy in both episodes when he's had a chance to kill Obi-Wan.
  15. emporergerner Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2005
    star 4
    I do think in a way hhe did want to turn Obi-Wan, but also both time he also had to deal with Anakin and in AOTC he had to deal with Yoda. I remember in the ROTS novel, that he kinda asks Palpatine if he could try to turn Kenobi. But if it were'nt for Anakin he would have killed him in AOTC.




    Emporer Gerner Dark Lord of the Sith
  16. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 10
    Throughout the Clone Wars, Dooku doesn't disguise the fact that he wants to turn Obi-wan. He even goes so far as to mention it to Asajj Ventress during the Ord Cestus negoitations and later to Palpatine's face, just before the fight. It isn't until sometime between Boz Pity and the kidnapping of Palpatine, that Dooku finds out that Sidious wants Anakin alive instead of dead. Palpatine tells Dooku that Anakin's far easier to turn than Obi-wan.
  17. Seperatist Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 4, 2005
    star 1
    There are actually quite a few people (most of them aren't fans) who have no clue to who Sidious is.

    -S-
  18. bug-tussle Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2006
    I thought you were always meant to know Palpatine was The Dark Lord since the not-so-subtle 'always two there are' moment in Episode I. I seem to remember sitting down watching it with people at the time who all turned around and ask: 'Is he the master?'.

    To me it was one of those plot points where you were never really sure what Lucas was trying to do. Was it meant to be obvious or was it just badly done? A bit like the horrible Queen-in-disguise nonsense from Episode I. I mean, why would the fake Queen choose, out of all her handmaidens, the real Queen to clean R2. Crazy!
  19. bug-tussle Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2006
    And while I'm on the topic. Who is Master Sypher Dious? I'm sure its well known amongst you regulars (I'm also sure I haven't spelt it right), but I can't see any indication to who it is. It couldn't be Christopher Lee, his character already has two names!
  20. WEEBACCA Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2004
    star 4
    It was Count Dooku (Christopher Lee) who ordered the clones using the name of Sifo-Dyas (hope I spelt it right). The real Sifo-Dyas was a Jedi Master on the Jedi Council who was killed before TPM (this is what I've heard at least).
  21. bug-tussle Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2006
    Thats fair enough. But if he was meant to be dead, why was nobody surprised to see him alive and working for the trade federation? And why has he changed his name? Surely three names would cause problems with his tax return and intergalactic pension. I do find it quite frustrating how Lucas seemingly can't be bothered with exposition. Some dialogue heavy scenes were just worryingly poor. But hey never-mind. It's over now!
  22. mastersith69 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2005
    star 1
    pretty much i would of been surprised if:

    A) in attack of the clones palpatine would not of looked so old like the emperor in rotj and instead look more younger. heck he even sounded like the emperor for goodness sakes.

    B) in the second trailer for rots we had not seen palpatine talking about the darkside. i can remeber the next day people on the radio were talking about how they had no idea he was the emperor. to me that was a big surprise that lucas gave away to the public for free people!!!

  23. Alpha-Red Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2004
    star 5
    He was Dooku's close friend prior to his turning to the dark side. He was sorta like Dooku in that he had concerns over the state of the Republic, so he orders the clone army to help out the Jedi. But Dooku had already met up with Sidious, who ordered him to kill Sipho-Dyas and take over the cloning operation. So yeah...
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