PT Why does the Trade Federation Invades Naboo?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Alessandro Sanfilippo, Sep 20, 2013.

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  1. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 4
    One of the biggest problems with the Prequels is that it doesn't answer many of the questions it poses. The films fail to tell you things that are important, so people have to resort to reading books, or come here to get an understanding of what is happening in the movies. That, in my opinion, is why the movies are flawed storytelling.
    Last edited by DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR, Oct 6, 2013
  2. Samuel Vimes Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    You keep repeating this but it doesn't make it true. The blockade was a high profile thing. If it ended, the senate would have known about it and asked questions. Nute would also have no reason to stay silent, esp if this was as illegal as you say. The rest of the TF would also want to know why he ended the blockade without getting anything in return.
    The blockade WAS already a matter for the senate but it was unable to do anything about it. Thus Valorum sends two jedi to settle the matter. He tells Palpatine of this and he informs Padme. Hardly signs that this was supposed to be a big secret. Also at the start of TPM, Nute did not seem surprised that ambassadors were coming, only that they were Jedi. So it seems he had been informed as well.

    Again, the jedi's involvement would become known. The only way it wouldn't is if the Jedi were also told to murder everyone on the TF ship and I highly doubt that. Thus Valroum has shown himself to be decisive and acted to resolve a situation despite the cost. If the sending of the jedi was illegal he was willing to pay that price and thus he has no reason not to call them when the stakes are much higher. If it wasn't at all illegal he still has no reason not to call them as the sending of them is no big deal.
    And even if it was, Valorum knows that the involvement of the Jedi would come out eventually and if he was worried about his career, then make sure the senate know about the invasion. Then there is less chance that the senate does anything about his illegal action as they have bigger things to worry about. Like galactic civil war.

    Wait, where in the movie does it say that Palpatine was behind this planted evidence?
    And where is it said that the senate believed any of it? The senate never talks about corruption charges against Valorum so we don't know if anybody put any stock in them. We see that Valorum crumbles but blue guy could just have said "We have your daughter, do as we say." Or "We have compromising pictures of you and an intern, do as we say."
    And again, Valorum was willing to risk all by sending the jedi to settle the blockade. Now he faces a war so he has even more reason to act.
    Valorum gets voted out but considering what an idiot he showed himself to be, that isn't surprising.
    A regular senator would hear that the TF has invaded a republic world and declared war on the republic. And yet the chancellor is a spineless jellyfish and is unable to do anything about it.
    I would have voted him out too.

    Is she? Where is that ever said in the movie? She knows that ambassadors has been sent.
    Palpatine informed her that ambassadors had been sent and she even contacted Nute about it.
    It is never said that she knew their presence was illegal.
    No, again Padme has no given reason not to suggest the Jedi as witnesses.


    The jedi only came to Geonosis through an incredible chain of events. Had Zam killed Padme with the first bomb, the Jedi would not have found Kamino or Geonosis. Had Obi-Wan not been assigned or had he not known Dex or gone to him, none of this would have happened. Had Obi-Wan been able to capture Jango, he wouldn't have gone to Geonosis. Had Jango killed him, he wouldn't have gone to Geonosis.
    No the seps were planning an attack and all those in the room seemed fine with that plan and so we can assume that those other Dooko talk about would think the same way. The seps are even planning for the DS so that shows us that they aren't nice people and don't bother with playing fair.
    They wanted to attack the defenseless republic and force their demands. What they are we don't know but maybe they wanted to enslave the republic, loot and plunder all they could or things like that.


    But you say that the only reason Palpatine wants her to sign the treaty is so that the invasion would become known. If she comes to Coruscant, the invasion becomes known so he need not bother with the treaty anymore.


    You still keep missing the point, no one noticed that Naboo had gone silent so for all the characters knew, this could have happened to other worlds as well. Also where is it said that Palpatine kept it quiet? All we know is that no one on Coruscant noticed that Naboo had gone silent. Even the jedi didn't seem to be wondering what was taking Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan so long.


    [/QUOTE]

    Again you miss the point. I am talking about what the characters knew AT THAT TIME.
    Before, Qui-Gon thought that the TF would give in with ease. They didn't and instead attacked, something he noted was not how the TF normally operates. He also noted that there was something more behind this. So the TF has just shown itself to be far more ruthless than ever before and has gone so far as to declare war on the republic. If they could do this on one planet, they could do it on other planets as well. Remember, the TF has "a battle hardened army" while the republic has no army. The jedi could not know whether or not any other worlds had been attacked by the TF. Nor could they know if the TF would attack other worlds like Naboo. Even if we assume that the jedi think that Naboo is the one planet for now. If the TF can do this without reprisal, why would they stop with Naboo? They could take more and more planets since the senate has shown it self to be spineless and unable to act in the face of war. Thus it is in the jedi's interest that the TF is stopped.
    And the they would see that the TF is a serious threat to the republic.

    Bye for now.
    Blackboard Monitor
  3. Alpha-Red Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2004
    star 5
    More like, George Lucas doesn't bother to think things out, but some other author comes along with an explanation that actually turns out to be pretty good.
    DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR likes this.
  4. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 10
    Nute's a coward. It was hoped by Valorum that he would fold like a deck of cards and the matter would go away. The Senate would be told that the matter was settled by the Naboo and not the Jedi.

    Right, but it was a secret from the Jedi. Palpatine would know because he's the Senator whose home world was affected.

    There is no war. Where do you get this? The war is the creation of the Sith. But as it is, the Jedi would negotiate to keep their names out of the spotlight as a favor to Valorum.

    Sidious is behind everything. That's what you're supposed to glean from the film. He tells Padme that there are accusations of corruption involving Valorum. Sidious would make sure that evidence would be there, thus inserting his man into the Vice Chancellor's podium and thus setting up his own ascension.

    That's why Mas Amedda was sitting to Valorum's right. He's there because of the corruption charges, to ensure that Valorum follows procedure.

    A regular senator did hear that and supported Lott Dodd in investigating the matter, as it was nothing but hearsay and slander.

    Is she? Where is that ever said in the movie? She knows that ambassadors has been sent.
    Palpatine informed her that ambassadors had been sent and she even contacted Nute about it.
    It is never said that she knew their presence was illegal.
    No, again Padme has no given reason not to suggest the Jedi as witnesses.[/quote]

    Palpatine talked to her in his office. He informed her of the situation in the Senate and that the Jedi weren't supposed to be there.

    Let's discuss this in the other thread. Besides, the Death Star was created for Sidious.


    He doesn't care about the treaty after she gets away from Maul. Before then, he's sticking to his original plan.


    The Jedi didn't sense any hint of a greater conspiracy. Thus there was no threat of war. Palpatine knew about the black out and told Valorum, who decided to give the Jedi time. The Council did as well. They were only gone for a couple of days. Not enough to worry about.


    The Jedi don't sense a war brewing. That's why they're shocked about the creation of the Clone Army, because they would sense it otherwise.
  5. darth ladnar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 20, 2013
    star 4
    Here's my impression of the situation, and yes, it does require some EU stuff to fill things in. The Trade Federation didn't like the new taxes being imposed on them by the Republic. They served as middlemen in the trade between many planets in the Outer Rim and the Republic. They didn't control those planets. They only had a very large presence on these worlds. Invading Naboo would be a first.

    They're disgruntled about the new tax, and Darth Sidious offers to help them implement a plan of his own design to eliminate the tax. (I have no idea how he's convinced him that he can be successful, but he must have done something impressive to convince them he's a guy who can get things done.) He tells them a plan, and here's the plan he tells them. The Trade Federation should invade Naboo. If the weak Chanceller decides that the TF is a threat, he might give into their demands, take back the tax, and the TF will leave Naboo all the richer. So, the first question -- why have Padme sign the treaty? It allows the Chancellor to save face. He can say, "Well, the Naboo were letting the TF put their military there, so they weren't really that hostile, but we still don't want the TF to have a military presence on sovereign worlds." It gives the Senate an excuse not to act, and that's all they really want. (like how it is in the real world). The weak Chancellor might have another reaction, though. He might even decide that it's okay for the TF to stay there, since he's really like the leader of the UN and they think he won't have any direct evidence that 14-year old Padme ultimately didn't agree to sign the treaty. Her complaining afterwards is sour grapes. So, in this case, the Chancellor just lets the TF stay on Naboo and he doesn't retract the taxes. However, the TF still wins because Naboo has huge reservoirs of plasma under its surface (That's what you're seeing when Obi and Qui fight Maul, I think), and once the TF controls Naboo, it will be able to earn all the profits from the plasma that will become theirs. The TF doesn't think it has to worry about war. Naboo doesn't have a strong military, it doesn't get along with the Gungans (so why round them up? I don't know-- well it works for Palpatine but not for the TF at all), and the Chancellor can't pass any resolution in support of force because the Vice Chancellor keeps blocking things with bureaucracy. Also, since the Republic is more like the UN it's understandable why they don't get involved in every little conflict. So this is the TF's understanding of the plan.

    Palpatine, though, has a different plan. He can make the Chancellor look weak for allowing the TF to stay on Naboo or for retracting the taxes on the TF. The treaty idea also works well for him just because it does seem sort of bogus, and he can make it seem even more bogus. He wants to create sympathy for Naboo. So, he has tons of options how to do this, so many that he doesn't really even have to be careful about it. Once the treaty is signed, he can provide proof himself that the treaty was signed under duress. If he can get away with it, he might even reveal that the TF was working with some evil guy named Sidious who did such and such evil act to show the TF he meant business. Since the Chancellor accepted this bogus treaty, this helps Palpatine make him look weak. So, Palpatine turns the face-saving quality of the treaty to his advantage. Palpatine and his powerful allies can also later stir up a rebellion on Naboo, which would also make it seem like the Chancellor can't control the situation. So, in the end, the Chancellor looks weak for allowing the TF to boss him around, and then he looks extra weak because he supported (or didn't refuse to enforce) a treaty which was signed under duress and which has led to a rebellion on Naboo.

    Since the Jedi who are reliable witnesses can undermine the treaty thing by providing some evidence it was signed under duress, the Jedi going there as ambassadors throws a little wrench in Palpatine's plan, but not much of one. Padme doesn't sign the treaty, but imagine that Darth Maul captures Padme. Well, that wouldn't look good for the Chancellor. Renegades capturing queens under your term doesn't make you look strong. And the queen starting a war doesn't really go against Palpatine's plan either. It again makes the Chancellor look weak. Also getting dressed down in front of the whole Senate by a 14-year-old queen for being ineffectual doesn't help Valorum's cause either.

    So, in the end, Palpatine's plan was to lead the TF into a plan which seemed to serve their purposes, and then once they got the invasion in place turn the situation in his favor, inclduing possibly double-crossing them. After things don't go the way they expected, the TF just follows Sidious's advice because they have no experience dealing with situations like this one and because they're afraid of him. In fact, Nute says a couple of times lines basically indicating that things are getting out of hand and he's in over his head.

    I think GL was going for the same feel as ANH. In ANH, you hear about Emperor dissolving the Senate and giving power to the regional governors, and you really don't know what that's all about. I think it works because we, as Americans, have the basic idea that a democracy is being dismantled and they also have a really powerful superweapon and Vader seems to be one scary dude. So, I think GL was going with the same bare bones feeling of something going wrong, but you're not sure exactly what in ANH. However, a trade dispute just doesn't sound as menacing as an emperor dissoving a senate, and Nute is no Vader. Also, Americans like corrupt capitalism a lot more than dictatorships. For Marxists, the TF scenario would seems a lot more threatening and ominous. :)

    BTW, I don't think it was a really big No-No on Valorum's part to send the Jedi as ambassadors. I think the Jedi didn't testify because the political stuff was getting too long and because Padme was considered a more than credible witness.
  6. Samuel Vimes Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    That Nute would agree to a setlement is one thing, that he would lie about it or pretend the jedi were not involved is something else. This could be payback to the jedi and Valorum for what they did to him.
    Also, if this was so illegal as you say, then Valorum has just given the TF a weapon against him. The TF could then blackmail him, "Get rid of this new tax or we'll tell the senate how you broke the law." Esp in light of these "corruption charges". This is even more evidence that what Valorum did was not illegal.
    If it was he would just have given the TF a weapon to use against him and it would be idiotic to do that.
    Also, Padme was told that ambassadors had been sent to end the blockade. If they had then she would inform all of Naboo of what had happened.
    In short, there is no way that the jedi being there would not become known, thus Valorum sending them was not illegal or something that he needed to worry about.
    If you have evidence that states that it was, post it.

    Umm.. the Jedi knew that they were sent to negotiate with the TF and they knew that Valorum had sent them. Watch the movie, Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan knows why they are there. If you mean the rest of the jedi order, then there is zero proof of that. The council seemed to know that Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan had been sent to setttle the matter on Naboo.


    There is a war, the TF has launched an all out attack on a republic world and conquered it.
    The TF has declared war on the republic and Valorum knows it. Thus the stakes are now much higher than when it was just a blockade. Since Valorum was willing to ignore procedure then, it makes sense that he would be even more willing now.


    That is not an answer, I asked for specific evidence that Palpatine was behind the false evidence.
    For that matter, how do we know there is any evidence, false or not? Valorum falters but that could instead be because blue guy threatened to kill him or his wife or something else.

    And where is that explained in the film? Blue guy is there yes, but why he was there is not clear.
    And Valorum sent the Jedi, apparently against procedure, so what was he doing then?
    And again Valorum has shown that he is willing and able to act against procedure. At least when the script calls for it, and when it calls for him to be weak and timid, he is weak and timid.


    No he didn't, in the scene with her and Palpatine, he NEVER mentions that the jedi were not supposed to be there. Stop making things up.

    But in the other thread you argue that Palpatine was behind each and every event in AotC and all was planned from the start. Who is to say that Palpatine's real plan was that Padme get away, that Maul was told to fail to capture her so that she could get to Coruscant. Palpatine had planned for her to go back to Naboo and that Qui-Gon and Maul would die so that he could turn Dooku. Etc etc.


    The jedi apparently did not sense that war had broken out so their senses are not all that good.
    Once Qui-Gon came back and reported, the jedi would go "The TF attacked and invaded a whole planet, but we didn't sense anything." "Hmm perhaps they have attacked other worlds or are planning to attack other worlds."

    [/QUOTE]

    The jedi didn't sense that the Sith were back. They also didn't sense that the TF attacked Naboo nor did they predict it. So their sensing ability is clearly not that great. Thus they would consider the possibility that the TF had attacked other planets or would do so.
    So action is clearly called for.

    Bye for now.
    The Guarding Dark
  7. timmoishere Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    Read Cloak of Deception. In that novel, Palpatine's minions plant the false corruption evidence implicating Valorum.
    SithStarSlayer likes this.
  8. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 10
    Again, Nute is a coward. At the start of the film, the Jedi and Valorum think that it is the Federation alone that is at work here. Their past experience is that when confronted about illicit affairs, they don't have the stones to do anything about it. So they believe that Nute wouldn't say jack.

    See above.

    She doesn't know that Valorum is mired in scandal and charges of corruption. Palpatine doesn't tell her this until they meet face to face. So she would just refer to the ambassadors.

    The title crawl tells you that the Jedi were sent in secret by Valorum and Palpatine states that his power is dwindling.

    That first sentence was a mess up. Ignore it.


    Except Valorum was in the Senate and blocked by Mas Amedda, Lott Dodd and Aks Moe. It was one thing to do it from the privacy of his office. It is another to do it in the Senate. He doesn't have nearly the guts that you think he does. He bows before procedure because he's worried about losing his power.


    Palpatine wants to become Chancellor. He used treachery, bribery and greed to get himself elected. That included the scandal that surrounded Valorum. And Mas didn't threaten him with anything. He was told to follow procedure.

    PALPATINE: "Enter the bureacrats, the true rulers of the Republic, and on the payroll of the Trade Federation, I might add. This is where Chancellor Valorum's strength will disappear."

    Afterwards, Valorum caves.

    Again, what he did in private is different from in public. And especially when it is on a larger scale.

    It's called read between the lines. Palpatine is informing her of the political situation in the Senate, including that Valorum has become weak and ineffective.

    Palpatine comes up with a plan. Sometimes things don't go exactly as he wants him to, and other times it does. What I said in the other thread is an example of that with regards to the assassination attempt. It didn't matter if Padme was killed or not, just so long as Zam was and the toxic dart was used. Likewise, Dooku was supposed to kill Obi-wan and this would cause Anakin to become evil, but it didn't. He only succeeded in getting Anakin to killing in anger, but he had to come up with another plan to finish the deed. Here, the plan was to use the treaty, but plans change and Palpatine came up with a new scenario.

    That isn't a war. The war doesn't begin until Geonosis. What we had here was an invasion to force a treaty that would legitimize occupation. The Jedi don't question their abilities until Obi-wan tells them about what he found on Kamino.

    They don't know that the Sith are back until after Qui-gon is pushing up the daises. By that point, the Federation has been defeated and Nute Gunray is on his way to Coruscant. They think that some Sith wannabe found a Lightsaber and practiced with it enough to fight Qui-gon. It is only when a Jedi is killed, after the attacker fought two Jedi and used the Force as he did, did the Council agree with Qui-gon's assessment.

    MACE WINDU: "There is no doubt now that the mysterious warrior was a Sith."

    Before then, they had their doubts.
  9. Samuel Vimes Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    What illicit affairs? The blockade was LEGAL, and the senate could not resolve the matter.
    So Nute had done nothing wrong. It is likely that he would have agreed to end the blockade because he isn't very brave. Again it is something quite else that the jedi would threaten him to not speak of this ever again. So the involvement of the jedi would become known. The rest of the TF would want an answer why Nute folded like this.


    And again it would become know that Valorum sent ambassadors to settle the dispute. If they had done their job what Valorum did would become known. And according to you, end his career.

    They were SENT in secret, they make no effort to hide their identity at any point in the film. Palpatine is informed that ambassadors have been sent as is Padme. If secrecy is such an issue, why would Valorum tell them and risk that word gets out?
    The crew of the republic ship knew who they were as did Nute, the crew of his ship and others as well. If Valorum thought that this would not get out then he is an idiot.
    Personally, I think that Valorum sending them might have been a minor thing but once they did their job, he could say that he ended the blockade and that minor thing would be ignored over the greater good.


    And I am pointing out that earlier in the film, Valorum isn't nearly as weak as you think. He sees a problem and the deadlocked senate and takes personal initiative to settle the matter. He reaches out to the jedi and sends them without asking the senate. That took courage and initiative, something that seems totally lacking when we actually see Valorum later. If something had happened between the sending of the jedi and the senate meeting and we knew what that was, that would be something.
    As it is now, it comes across as weak writing, the character just does what the plot requires of him.
    Personally I would have liked more of Valorum, both because I like the actor and it would make his later fall have greater impact.
    .
    No it is called making stuff up to suit your argument. The film never gives any reason why the jedi were not called as witnesses and at least two people have good reason to call them.
    The film failed to explain this, simple as that.

    A planetary invasion is not war?

    [/QUOTE]

    They think that some guy can just find a lightsabre, a sith one at that, and learn to fight all on his own so that he can fight a Jedi Master to a stand still? I think the odds on that are quite low. Esp with the lightsabre. Only Sith uses red ligthsabers so if Maul just found one, then it must be at least 1000 years old. The sith sure builds things to last.

    Also Qui-Gon said that Maul was "well versed in the Jedi arts." That would include Force use to me, so he apparently knew that Maul could use the Force and quite well.

    The jedi aren't certain that the sith are back but they still say they will use ALL their resources to uncover Maul's identity. Since they think he will be on Naboo, it make sense to send a few extra Jedi there and not have them randomly go around the galaxy looking for him.
    If the cops thinks a suspect is at one location, they often send some extra units there.

    Bye for now.
    Old Stoneface
  10. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 10
    Why is it difficult to believe that the Jedi wouldn't threaten Nute? Luke threatened Jabba quite a bit in ROTJ. Anakin made threats in AOTC.

    No, the involvement of the ambassadors would be covered up and made to look like the Naboo and the Federation settled the matter peacefully, without outside help.

    Valorum told Palpatine because he petitioned for his help as part of his ruse. Palpatine had to make a case for actions on Valorum's part, to make it looked like he was concerned about his planet's welfare. To not do so would arose suspicion.


    But you're missing the point. At the time, it was a blockade. Now it is an invasion and it is a matter before the Senate with the Queen there to plead her case. But he is fought and overruled. He's more worried about his political career than the greater good. "All those who have power are afraid to lose it". Palpatine's exact words on the nature of people. And when he is put to task, he loses his nerve. It isn't weak writing. We're seeing why he was removed from office and how Palpatine took his place, because he lacked the same courage and strength that Palpatine has. That's why the Senate voted to keep him in office longer and kept giving him more power. He wasn't bowing to pressure. He was finding ways to get things done.
    .
    They weren't called because they weren't supposed to be there.


    Let me amend this. It is not a war on the Republic. It is a war on a single planet. It is the first step in signing a treaty legitimizing their taking control of the local government, which the Senate would ratify. That's why it is one planet over multiple ones.

    ANAKIN "I saw your laser sword. Only Jedi carry that kind of weapon."

    QUI-GON: "Perhaps I killed a Jedi and stole it from him."

    ANAKIN: "I don’t think so… No one can kill a Jedi Knight."

    QUI-GON: "I wish that were so…"

    Someone can kill a Jedi and take the Lightsaber from them. And again, according to the Council, they have doubts. It isn't until the end, that they believe that the Sith are back.

    Knowing to use the Force and being a Sith are two different things.

    The Council is confident that two Jedi will be sufficient for someone that may or may not be a Sith. Any more and it would look like the Jedi are taking an active part in the Naboo conflict. That is why they are listed as protecting the Queen, not hunting for Sith.
  11. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    Frankly, from someone who doesn't read the EU, the whole Syfo-Dyas subplot was nonsensical and idiotic. He is never mentioned in I or III.
  12. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    Changes. Some just aren't for the better.
  13. SkywalkerJedi02 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 3, 2013
    star 1
  14. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 10

    Originally in 2000, Lucas wrote and filmed that part of the story as Obi-wan being told about Sido-Dyas, a mysterious Jedi that neither he, nor the Council have heard of. It was to be revealed over the course of the film, that certain alien races had trouble speaking Basic/English beyond Jar Jar. Both Lama Su and Poogle The Lesser say Sido-Dyas, but what they're really trying to say is Sidious. Between October of 2000 and July of 2001, Lucas decided to change that as he didn't like how it went. When the re-shoots took place, the story was now changed to Sifo-Dyas, a Jedi Master who was killed ten years before AOTC. Someone who was known among the Jedi and was known to be dead, but that Lama Su didn't know of it. The intention by Lucas appears to be that he was either going to address it in ROTS, as a major plot point, but was ran out of time. Or most likely, the answer would come when Sidious orders the clone commanders to terminate the Jedi.

    Author James Luceno was allowed to deal with this in his novel that would lead into the novelization of ROTS.
  15. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    Still, kinda silly that this subplot even existed.
  16. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 10
    It existed because the Kaminoans were used just like everyone else. The Jedi's reputation is such that even outside of the Republic, the Kaminoans know of them and are willing to help the Republic out for a fee.
  17. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 4
    I don't think it's idiotic that Lucas has used a dead Jedi's name as the one who ordered the army. If you think about it, a few things could have happened. If you go by the films alone, it makes sense to think that either Sifo-Dyas sided with Darth Sidious (like Dooku had) and was later killed by the Sith to hide the fact, or Dooku (or maybe even Palpatine) impersonated as the Jedi Master. Whatever the case, I don't think it matters.

    But what I do find idiotic, is the fact that the Senate never questions (in the films, mind you) why a Jedi would go rogue, and how and where he got the resources to do such a thing. In fact, the one time that you would have thought the newly declared Emperor Palpatine would mention that the Jedi were the ones who had illegally ordered the clone army (which would have been proof enough that they were plotting for years to take over) was never even brought up. To make matters worse, the Jedi had shrug off the whole thing as good fate, and never bother to voice their opinion as to why a former colleague would do it without consulting the Council first. Did they think their former friend had predicted future events, which he knew would be a full scale civil war, and that the clone army would be needed to safeguard the Republic? Or did they think he had designs of his own to take over the Republic that would have made him absolute ruler over the Galaxy? Since none of this was explained or emphasized in the movies, we're to assume that it was just a name drop that meant nothing in the end.
    Last edited by DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR, Oct 10, 2013
  18. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    They can question it all they want, but that won't change the fact that the Republic finds itself in a situation where it needs the army. With Sifo-Dyas dead, they're not going to get his explanation for why he did what he did, and is that alone grounds for refusing the army and simply letting the Republic be split in two?

    Yes.
  19. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 4
    I think you're missing my point. These were IMPORTANT THINGS that were not pointed out IN THE FILMS, which are some of the reasons why people here have been bashing the movies since they were released.
  20. timmoishere Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    ...which is why the EU is invaluable in explaining the poor storytelling aspects of the prequels. Ignoring it is a futile endeavor.
  21. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
  22. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    It was quite clear in the films that the Republic needed the army, and questions about Sifo-Dyas quickly became irrelevant once the war had started.
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Oct 13, 2013
  23. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 10
    The reasons why the Jedi never question the origin of the Clone Army, wasn't that important to the main storyline. The same way that Han's inability to pay off Jabba The Hutt after the victory at Yavin 4, is never explained in TESB. They just weren't important.
  24. Alessandro Sanfilippo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2013
    star 1
    It is explained on ESB that there was an imperial blockade and he was unable to go to tattoine and pay Jabba.
  25. timmoishere Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    Yeah, Han got caught up in the Rebellion and several different circumstances prevented him from paying off Jabba.
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