PT Why does Vader continue to the dark side after Padme dies?

Yeah, I know the quotes, remember how I cited "death of the author" above? To me the words of an artist/creator on their work are no more valid or insightful than anyone else, and using them to say: "well, this is what the author said, so I guess that's how it is" is sloppy and lazy because it is not examining the text but merely appealing an outside authority instead of making a compelling argument from the text itself.

 

The point is you can tell his movements are limited. Just look at the last gif showing Anakin/Vader in two different duels. Look at him not fighting like he used to, or like Palpatine did. Much less the other Jedi and Sith. Note that he doesn't use the lightning like Palpatine and Dooku. Or how the Imperials were more afraid of Palpatine than they were of him, until he started asserting his authority through Force chokes.

 

I just don't see DV being slower/weaker/lesser in those or other clips. I understand what you are saying but its just a different reading of the film than what I see.

 

That's fine for you, but as far as I'm concerned, "death of the author" is nothing but post-modernist claptrap. The author actually does exist, and works of art actually are created by people with intentions and feelings and motivations, no matter what a bunch of navel-gazing narcissists want to say.

There's nothing sloppy and lazy about examining the totality of evidence, including quotes and statements from the author, when analyzing a work. Simply saying so does not actually make it so. And that's all proponents of "death of the author" ever do: just state nonsensical things as if they're fact and expect everyone else to go along with them just because.

 

But works of art are often collaborative and even when there is one main author he is often either restrained, at least initially, by what he thinks the audience will or will not accept and/or changes his views over time so his more recent statements and interpretations aren't necessarily even consistent with, let alone definitive for, a work from long ago.

 

Fair enough. I've got nothing against people using what creators say about their work if it fits their bill. As for myself, I feel like it diminishes the experience to have to get things cleared up or extrapolated upon through extra-textual sources. Maybe I came across as too harsh in my "lazy and sloppy" post? (reading it back makes me think that I may have), but I don't think that looking the text of a work first and foremost is an invalid way to experience a piece, just as I don't think more of a "let's see what the creator/author said" is invalid. I just don't find is as convincing or compelling.

Stating that another viewpoint is non-sensical and/or narcissistic does not necessarily make it so, either.

 

But that doesn't mean they aren't relevant or that they can't inform our analyses.

 

Well, that's why I compared it to Palpatine.

 

After Padme’s death, I think the only thing keeping Anakin going was survival instinct. He already broke his conscience and all his relationships were severed, so there was nothing to stop him from staying on the dark side. And if he wants to live, he has to obey Sidious.

 

I also believe is that sidious keeps brainwashing lord Vader to forget his past and to keep the threat of Anakin from coming back. Plus even if Vader wanted to kill palpatine in revenge, he can’t because his suite makes him weaker than before he became machine.

Vader suit was made so palpatine can use him as a weapon and enforcer for palpatine himself. If Vader did not have suite and mask after Palme died, he would therefore have a better chance to kill palpatine and become the emperor himself.

 

Vader continued in the dark side afterward because of his self-loathing. He had become addicted to the power that anger, fear, and hatred could bring him. Also, he despised Obi-Wan and the Jedi. He also feared Sidious and the repercussions of opposing him. He was, after all, more machine than man by that point. Even if he was one of the most powerful Sith Lords in history, Lucas says that he was 80% as powerful as Sidious. Had he sustained none of his injuries on Mustafar, he would have been twice as powerful. Also, Vader on some level felt that he owed Sidious for saving him, and Sidious was all he had left. He had lost his mother, Padme, Obi-Wan, and Ahsoka. It wasn't until Luke came and appealed to Vader's reason that he saw the error of his ways. Vader undoubtedly had moments of self-doubt prior to that, but Luke had to be persistent and hold to the light, despite Vader's stubbornness.

 

Palpatine saved him and supposedly tried to help him save his wife. He also didn't want to remember himself as Anakin, as he lost everything under that persona. He also disagreed with the Council on a great deal of issues and felt they were the reason he had to resort to the Darkside, to attempt to save his wife's life.

 

If he leaves the Empire, his health benefits stop, and he'd have to go through a third party provider to pay for his medical treatments. That market is even more evil than the Empire itself.

 

Healthcare is bad in the GFFA.

 

In for a penny, in for a pound

 

Because where else could he go? The Republic is gone, the Jedi decimated, and Padmé is dead. Indeed, even if she lived she would not want to have anything to do with him ever again. All he has is his own guilt and Palpatine who I am sure isn’t about to let Vader go trouncing about the various bars of the galaxy drinking and feeling sorry for himself.

Vader basically created his own personal hell, and he had to live with it. So why doesn’t he just run a lightsaber through himself? His own will and anger prevents that. You know the meme of ‘Man Literally Too Angry To Die’? That’s Vader.

 

This is the answer, it's really as simple as the above. As Vader says: 'You don't know the power of the Dark Side - I must obey my Master.' That's why Yoda and Obi-Wan tell Luke he has to kill Vader. No one's ever come back from it before. Anakin is 'Gone', 'Destroyed'. His turn back to the light is a miracle, unprecedented - Luke is the only one capable of seeing the good in him, and by trusting his feelings (an idea the Jedi of the Republic gave lip service to but failed to truly embody, as demonstrated by their philosophical clash with Qui-Gonn Jinn) Luke enables Anakin to reconnect with the light side of the force, perhaps even bringing it back into balance.

 

I think there's some sincerity in the idea that Anakin after RotJ didn't view either the Dark Side or the Empire as bad, he did long want to have, at least for there to be even if not him, strong leadership & control both to make things as he wanted them to be and justice more broadly. And although he must know at least to some extent that Palpatine had manipulated and was still using him he could view himself as having been more wrong by the Jedi and other enemies of the Empire.

 

He continues to service evil because good is dumb!

/thread

 

Despair could've been a factor too. You can sense in ROTS his feeling of being past the point of no return. First after helping to kill Mace Windu, and then later after Palpatine informs him he's killed his own wife and unborn children.

 

he wanted to rise her from the dead through the dark sides power .

 

It's possible that Anakin, for a long time, still thought, held onto the belief, that Padme had betrayed him, brought Obi-Wan to kill him so while he felt bad that he killed her he still had bitterness that she betrayed him first. He was only able to realize that she didn't or if she did still forgive her near the end of Jedi.

 

Perfectly stated.

 

I think he forgave her pretty soon. After getting his limbs chopped off, burned alive, going through an excruciating surgery, getting put into a mysterious suit, and believing that all this is because Padme intentionally brought Obi Wan there to kill him, the first thing he asked about after the surgery was her safety. As far as he thinks, Padme would be happy about the result of the duel (or worse yet, even disappointed that he wasn't killed), and yet her well being is still his primary concern. The choking was more of a heat of the moment thing; he still loves her even if he thinks she's trying to kill him.

By the way, after Anakin reunited with Obi Wan as force ghosts in ROTJ, I wonder if Obi Wan told him that he snuck onto the ship (or if Anakin thought of that himself and confirmed with Obi Wan). Though at that point, Anakin wasn't ever going to see Padme again, so discovering the truth might make him even more sad...