Why Does Vader not think Yoda Has trained Luke?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by THE_MISSING_TRIPLET, Apr 6, 2003.

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  1. THE_MISSING_TRIPLET Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2003
    star 4
    In watching esb I realized that Vader is still hung up on the fact that Luke has soley benn trained by Obi-Wan. Why does it not enter his mind that Yoda is training Luke?
  2. Spacehunter24 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2003
    star 4
    Perhaps he thought Yoda had been killed during the Jedi Purge?
  3. winter_chili Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2002
    star 5
    I think vader feared yoda
  4. -_-_-_-_-_- Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2002
    star 6
    Vader thought, as Palpatine did, that Yoda was long dead.
  5. ratmankey Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2002
    star 4
    Vader didn't think Yoda was still alive. Though I do find it strange that he's still saying "Obi-Wan has taught you well" by ROTJ. Does he really think somebody can go from whiny farmboy to Jedi knight with ONE teacher who taught him for a couple hours and no more? Come on now, Vader's smarter than that...
  6. GrandAlmightyMaster Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2003
    star 2
    Vader probaly thinks Yoda is dead with the rest of the Jedi.
  7. THE_MISSING_TRIPLET Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2003
    star 4
    so something has to happen in ep3. for vader to think yoda is dead?
  8. Master Salty Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 1999
    star 6
    Hopefully, Episode III will make it seem like Yoda died.
  9. son-of-skywalker13 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2002
    star 2
    first of all ... vader has no clue about how long Obi Wan trained Luke. For all he knows, Obi Wan couldve trained luke from lukes birth.
    Second ... in the ROTJ novelization, the emperor realizes yodas existence, and it is revealed that vader did not know yoda. This of course has changed in the PT and so i am led to number 3
    third ... vader and the emperor MUST think that yoda is dead by ANH or else i will have lost all faith in star wars ... i am betting on a duel between the emperor and yoda.
  10. Bib Fortuna Twi'lek Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1999
    star 10
    Vader figures out that Yoda must have taught Luke during their ROTJ duel.
  11. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    "Vader figures out that Yoda must have taught Luke during their ROTJ duel."

    This is never mentioned in the films. ?[face_plain]

    I don't see Luke using the "Frog-on-Speed" method of lasersword fighting, [face_laugh] so how would Vader know otherwise?
  12. Darth Jamus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2000
    star 4
    Wasn't their some dialogue in the novelization or original script where the Emperor comments on having thought that Yoda was dead during his confrontation with Luke?
  13. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    Perhaps, but Lucas is going to use what's in the films. As far as the audience knows, Vader and Palpatine are unaware of Yoda's existence in the OT. Not to mention the fact that Yoda is dead at this point in ROTJ anyways.
  14. Dark Lady Mara Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 1999
    star 7
    Palpy does ask Luke who completed his training and then deduce that it must have been Yoda when Vader first brings Luke to him in the RotJ novelization, but that doesn't prove anything about what he and Vader knew. Palpatine simply doesn't deal with people in straightforward ways. It's possible he had known about Yoda for some time but wanted to make it seem like he had only just realized it from mindprobing Luke so Luke would think he was more of a failure for being unable to keep that secret.
  15. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    Mara, you've been very, um, hypothetical tonight. ;)
  16. UK Sullustian Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1998
    star 4
    //OFF TOPIC Woo Hoo! My 2000 post and it is a canon/EU one.

    I condemn you all for making me waste this e-important post, where it could have been used in a unfunny JCC Thread


    I would say that any assumptions taken from the "Palpatine discusses Yoda" sequences in the ROTJ novel would be at best mistaken, and at worst completely wrong.

    Having the novel open in front of me, it strikes very true that not only has this entire sequence been "discarded/ignored", (The Yoda never meeting Vader thing), but that it also seems evident that this is an extention/addition by the novelisation author, rather then any actual definite story aspect handed down from Lucas. Much like how I believe the nature of Vader's plans and relationships have been completely misunderstood and misrepresented in the novelisation, (The betrayal of Palpatine, the handling of Luke), compared to what seems evident to what Kasdan and Lucas had planned.

    IMHO, these sequences should not be used to try and draw on the characters influences and plans. It may be best to go back to ROTJ and draw on the subtexts of the scenes there.

    UKS

  17. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
    What he said... :D
  18. Ewan-Kenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 21, 2000
    star 6
    *gives Nidge a healthy boo for his lame 2000th post*

    Vader only saw Luke twice. He doesn't know he was a whiney farmboy. He knew he rescued Leia from a moon sized space station then later singlehandedly blew it up. That's pretty impressive.

    And he must be aware he could improve alone. Afterall Luke improved a lot from ESB to ROTJ all by himself.
  19. THE_MISSING_TRIPLET Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2003
    star 4
    ewan-kenobi that is true, From Vaders perspective he knows nothing about the situation. He doesn't know if lukes been trained for 16 years or 2 days. But couldn't he sense that he was not fully trained.. "Join me and I will complete your training."
  20. Dark Lady Mara Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 1999
    star 7
    I think Vader must have had a general idea when Luke started his training. He notices immediately when Luke uses the Force to target the Death Star exhaust port, his first major act as a Force-user, so we can assume that Vader would have picked up on any new presence in the Force almost as soon as it formed. If Luke's training had started when he was a baby, he would have been noticeable in the Force as a baby.
  21. Esplin9466 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 27, 2002
    star 4
    (The Yoda never meeting Vader thing)

    Which thing is this?
  22. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    "so we can assume that Vader would have picked up on any new presence in the Force almost as soon as it formed."

    Can we? You know what happens when you assume. :p

    "If Luke's training had started when he was a baby, he would have been noticeable in the Force as a baby."

    What did Anakin do to make Qui-gon notice him? Some people just exude a Force presence.
  23. THE_MISSING_TRIPLET Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2003
    star 4
    O.K is the reason that they couldn't discover Anakin until he was 12 due to the fact that there were already so many jedi being trained and the fact that they happened to land on Tatooine? But In vaders case there really is no interference because of such low "Force Activity" what I mean is no new jedi being trained meaning that vader could sense when one was begining to become "Force sensitive". So I think it would of been easier for Vader to sense this activity rather then Qui-Gon
  24. Dark Lady Mara Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 1999
    star 7
    What did Anakin do to make Qui-gon notice him?

    Anakin was actively using the Force to podrace when he was nine. There's no canon evidence of Luke ever using the Force before ANH.
  25. Bib Fortuna Twi'lek Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1999
    star 10
    Actually there is. In the BFC, Luke reminisces on how he subconsciously used the Force to find one of Beru's missing tools. Owen was furious about it.
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