Discussion in 'Communications' started by AaylaSecurOWNED, Nov 17, 2011.
I can/will support this.
Laker games cancelled (so far) due to the current NBA lockout: 22
i think we should have a "re-name wnu" contest.
If it was Greetings New Users we could call it GNU! It rhymes with new. And it comes with a built-in mascot.
Okay, let's keep this a discussion and not turn it into a JCC thread, guys.
This. At some point we will move and we will get new users that can actually log in and post. Til then I see no harm in keeping the forum open.
So then re-name it. It is stupid to keep a forum called "Welcome New Users" when we can't even get new users.It is a completely useless forum.
I think you guys need to chill and find something else to complain about. This is stupid.
Admittedly, right now its purpose is lost due to the board problems preventing new user registrations. However, once we move, that problem will be fixed and the purpose of WNU will return. It's really not worth changing the forum just until the move.
This reminds me of last summer when someone questioned the existence of LACWAC during TCW's off-season.
I think the thread is addressing more than the glitch that prevents new users from registering. I think it's saying that a specific forum for new users is unnecessary, and I agree. The forum really does nothing to introduce new users to individual boards. People go there and have pillow fights, then when they move on to different boards, they have to learn how to post all over again, because no other board at this place is like WNU... so I fail the see the value of it - it really doesn't introduce new users to this place at all.
There's this misconception about WNU that kills me every time it's mentioned. When I first joined the forums, I started out by posting primarily in WNU, and I never "had a pillow fight" or "hugged a friend" or participated in any mock-juvenile activities (which are basically harmless and not bothering you or anyone else) of that sort. Instead, I introduced myself in a welcome thread which enabled me to get acquainted with some people who I've been friends with for years now; I asked a few questions about the TOS and about different forums and about how the boards are run; I mentioned my interests, and based on what I said, other users recommended forums I might be interested in (one of those forums was SWC, so obviously they did something right ), and I basically used WNU as a tool which enabled me to ask questions and make mistakes and say stupid crap that would've gotten me in trouble in any other forum, allowing me to find my niche and understand how the JC works.
In that way, disregarding pillow fights and hugs and all that other good stuff, WNU was useful to me. In that way, disregarding pillow fights and hugs and all that other good stuff, WNU was useful to other people I know, as well. Certainly, it doesn't work for everyone, and that's to be expected. I don't post in JCC regularly because it doesn't work for me. Some of you guys might not post in SWC regularly because it doesn't work for you. That's fine. But that's no reason to get rid of either forum.
With that in mind, I think it's a vast oversimplification to say that pillow fights and hugging and emoticons are all WNU is about or all that it's good for. It's a directory of sorts, a grand central station where new users are routed through the forums. Yes, to you guys, message boards aren't this new, obscure concept that you need to get used to, but for some people, that's not the case. Yes, WNU really isn't functioning right now because we can't get any new users, but eventually, that won't be the case. Yes, a lot of you guys transitioned straight into the forums without going through WNU, but for others, that's not the case.
Also, to be honest, I've never actually seen a message board that didn't have some kind of WNU where new users could be welcomed into the community and given a push in the right direction. Granted, none of those other WNU-ish forums featured pillow fights, but they've got other strange quirks. And, in any case, the pillow fights are not the point.
Maybe I'm taking this discussion too seriously and you guys are just trying to be funny and I'm not cool enough to understand that. I dunno. But the tl;dr version of what I'm trying to say is that oversimplification is not cool.
And another thing: What would we gain if as a forum if we got rid of WNU? I mod the TOR forum, right? Neither TOR nor WNU get a lot of traffic. Neither TOR nor WNU can get any new users at this time. Both TOR and WNU, believe it or not, have functioning communities with in jokes and popular discussion and a mini culture of sorts. They're just like SWC or JCC in that way. Even if they're not doing anything great or momentous right now, they're not doing anything harmful, either. I challenge any of you guys to tell me what you'll gain if we delete WNU and destroy that beautiful little community of pillow fights and hearts and love. I'll tell you what we'll lose: The same thing we'd lose if we deleted that beautiful big community of gooooo science and weird news and Marvel Universe Survival battles.
I was going to come in to make a post defending WNU's existance, but QGR said it for me.
I'll also add that, yes, as much as people do try to advertise forums to new users, sometimes they don't go. Sometimes they disappear. But sometimes they use WNU as a jumping point to other forums, and they find places they may or may not have otherwise found, and they become at home.
As QGR said, it's not for everyone, but it is for some people, just like every other JC forum.
I've never seen any evidence that people who go to WNU just stay there and don't venture out. I have seen people actively recruit new users to get them to join SWC or C&G or RPF or whatever forum. If anyone's worried about the possibility of new users posting JUST in WNU, the beset thing to do woud be to come in, welcome people, link them to a forum you think they'd like, and tr to make friends with them and get them to join a forum you like.
There is a difference between the WNU and TOR forums, one is designed for a specific Star Wars property which means it was going to get a forum for it given the nature of the game. The other is a place that yes, potentially has a place in the scheme of things for a messageboard but is not a requirement. Placing aside the issue of new registrations being broken, and the 'pillow fight' and patronising banner issues; there is still a valid discussion to be had on this issue.
A look back over the forum shows that on average the forum gets about 50 threads every 3-4 months. Most of these threads get under 10 posts with a couple of larger threads also getting 10's to 100's of posts in that time. Loosely translating, this means there's maybe 5-10 new users per week that would use the forum. While those who are VIPs and above will have better access to these stats, even now with registrations having been broken for months there's been 100 new registrations in the last 2 weeks. So in the end I'd wager on 20-50 new accounts per day which when you account for potential socks would be 80-200 accounts per week.
Now, there's nothing wrong with a "Welcome" type forum having a community, but only if that is a vast secondary to the primary objective of the forum. While I estimated some numbers above, I'm willing to bet that they are high-balled due to the amount of posting by people that are entrenched users of the forums. So entrenched that I would wager that most would have more posts in a week in the forum individually than the combined totals of all the new users for the same week. Or at least more than half that total. Given that we're looking at only about an estimated 20% maximum of new users to these boards actually using the forum and then most of the posting and "community" coming from entrenched users it is not unfair to ask if the forum is still serving it's purpose. Just because it has formed a community does not make it immune from being made redundant, especially as there are already a lot of community forums existing that serve the purpose of allowing users to get to know each other.
So the question is does the forum serve it's stated purpose, and is that still a requirement for the boards as a whole? I know that back when we were getting 2000 new user accounts per day that a 5-20% usage rate was more than acceptable, but with what the figures are before registrations died in only an approximate 2 new users per day is it still needed?
Because god knows you couldn't have just read the TOS, and ya know, not had to interprete it from people that never venture elsewhere.
edit - Whoa on the personal attack there. Not cool.
I'm really struggling to understand the need to delete and/or close a forum that's been here forever. No, it's not particularly useful right now, but unless the move really is a grand April Fool's joke that the JC administration, in conjunction with IGN, has been planning for years, there will come a time in the not too distant future where new user registration is once again available. It seems to me that any discussion on major alterations to the JC should be tabled until we move.
But even still, why close it? It's not like it gets in your way of posting, you don't have to wade through WNU to get to the JCC. It really seems you just don't like the style of posting there. If there's a broader argument to get rid of less-trafficked forums, it took me about three seconds to find a handful of forums that could be either closed or merged. And a much better argument could be made for them than WNU. (Since you're going to ask, Fan Design: Sites and Graphics, Lucasfilm Projects, and the SFF forums. And Comms. Seriously. It serves less of a point than WNU at this point.)
I would argue that WNU is even more necessary at this point than in the past because this place needs something that's in some way inviting to new members. The communities here are so completely entrenched now, new members are immediately treated as outsiders and are reamed if their threads or posts are not deemed acceptable to the community at large (at least in the JCC, but as this seems largely a JCC thing, then yeah).
Rather than moving straight to "shut it down!" why don't we come up with some ideas to make it more useful for when registration is available again? Here's one, why doesn't the JCC crowd make an effort to let newbies know how it is in the JCC so the next time some random 14-year old posts with all the worldly experience of a 14 year-old in the JCC, he's not torn apart?
During my last post I thought this thread/question was meant in a funny way hinting at the sign-up malfunction. Obviously you really like to know why WNU still exists.
It exists, because we still get new members - if not that stupid sign-up malfunction had came up, but that will change once we have moved. Of course, there aren't as many new users as there were years ago, but we still get them and as long as we get some WNU is needed.
Of course, WNU doesn't work for everyone - like explained above, but that's not the point. There are still some new users, who are happy to have a starting point.
Since QGR and Nat pointed out some more points, please, re-read their posts as well. I agree with them!
Oh, and btw, starting to bash somebody doesn't help to back up a point of view!
Pointing out flaws doesn't equate to bashing, so please don't go there with me. Trust me, I could have been much meaner if that's the route I was going on with my comments, and I'm assuming that you're addressing me, if not, I'm sorry to respond in kind.
This is why you get a month.
Thanks for the excellent post, B.
Agreed. Can't understand why anyone would care if WNU is there or not.
At this point, we can use every poster we can get. As long as WNU isn't scaring people away, it seems silly to close it.
It's been said before, but the JCF was the first internet forum I'd ever been on, and the WNU helped a lot. I'd have had no idea how to make a decent post otherwise, let alone start a thread about anything remotely interesting, and on the right board.
When I posted (earlier in this thread), "Even when I was a new user, I wondered why the hell someone would actually need a Welcome New Users forum", I didn't really think the thread's question was meant to be taken very seriously. If it's not harming anyone, and potentially helping some, leave it up. Once we move we can again have new users, and even though it seems unnecessary to some (including me) to have a forum just to welcome new users, if it is helpful to others than it may as well stay. Regarding AmazingB's good points, I just wanted to mention that most of the subforums here are just fine at being welcoming to new users. Only the YJCC subforum is somewhat unwelcoming. You know you're stepping into the middle of a clique when everyone is addressing each other by their real names instead of user names, and frequently using inside jokes.
There have been several lengthy discussions in WNU about how to make it more useful once registration reopens. Mostly, they have been productive; with the goal being a legitimate introduction to other areas of the JC. In the meantime, it serves as a great place for people who don't post often or are just returning to get answers to questions without clogging up Comms with nonsense. It's also a safe place to make mistakes as mentioned prior. If WNU serves no other purpose, it is the sole place to do 20 random posts in order to be able to PM a mod with any concerns or questions.
As far as the several people in here who have taken the rational route of "WNU doesn't matter to me, so I simply don't post in there", I think that's the safest mentality, or we will propogate an unending dialogue where anyone who thinks a section of the boards is utterly useless will be making a case for its deletion. Senate, I'm looking at you...
I don't see why there couldn't be a welcome thread atop each forum that does any "good"/serves the purpose that WNU does.
Laker games cancelled (so far) due to the current NBA lockout: 22
Those are two pretty damn good points.
My feeling on WNU is that even though many people find it to be a "pointless" or "useless" forum, it still serves a purpose. Many users (and several mods, for that matter) might look at it and say, "why would anyone ever post there?" Of course, if you're saying that, you're probably used to diving right into a forum and going straight to the board or boards you're interested in. But I think it's important to understand that that isn't the case for everyone. That's why WNU has adoptions and advice and information available for those newbies who might not know exactly where to go or how to find what they're looking for. And frankly, so what if some of those users decide to keep posting there after they're no longer new to the boards? Those users become part of the group of experienced users who can help out the next generation of newbies.
Is it a perfect system? No, and I doubt anyone here thinks that it is. In fact, I don't know how many times over the last few years Skiara has come to me or posted in MS asking for input on ideas for improving WNU. So it's not like she's content with keeping things exactly the way they are. If you're so inclined, you can hop on over to WNU and see some of that discussion for yourself.
I've taken part in this discussion before. I think it would be helpful to give new users a taste of what individual boards are like. WNU seems to have a personality of its own, which is fine, but I think it could be improved by being more "diverse," so to speak. Like I said before, there is no other place like wnu around here, so new users aren't really being acquainted with the jc at all. They're getting used to one way of posting in a part of this place that does not really inform. I think wnu could benefit from being a lot more informative.
In past discussions, the idea of individual board welcome threads came up, and Skiara shot the idea down, saying that it would "clutter" wnu. I don't think that's the case. I think "Hi, I'm new" threads that get a handful of posts max clutter up the board (I'm talking about during normal times... when new users can actually post).
Making wnu a place that is more inviting to regular posters would help new users to become more acquainted with other boards and the regulars who post on them. I'm seeing a lot of, "it's not for everybody," and maybe that's the problem.