Why Doesn't QGJ Contact The Jedi For Help?

Seeing as how know one knows where they are they don't need to risk giving away there location.

As I said before - they were already taking that risk - they weren't far from the Nemoidians. QG can't be sure that they didn't track the ship, and Tatooine is controlled by the Hutts who could be a danger to them, so it's vital they get away as soon as possible. A quick departure is also important because the situation on Naboo is critical.

By not calling any one they were able to fix the ship and get off planet long before Maul was really very able to find them.

QG knows nothing about Maul at this point.
And as I said before - they could've gotten off a lot quicker by contacting the Jedi for help.


Also they had a radio? What radio?

Well if you watch the film you'll notice QG saying "send no transmissions." So unless they've got 2 tin cans and an unfeasibly long piece of string I conclude that they have a radio of some kind.

But I'm done here if you are know going to insulit me.

How very dramatic.

g

 

QG knows nothing about Maul at this point.
And as I said before - they could've gotten off a lot quicker by contacting the Jedi for help.

Yeah, especially since the Jedi would be using a ship with a working Hyperdrive, they'd get there pretty quick and get Padme and the others to safety as soon as possible.

 

Makes you wonder why Qui Gon was worried why he felt a tremor in the Force and told Obi Wan to be wary. Maybe there's "something else behind all of this". Hmmm?

 

Nah, there was nothing at all, they had no need to be worried in the slightest bit. They didn't need to pay attention to anything.

 

Loco for Lucas-"Wasn't the Galaxy already on the brink of collapse in TPM? You have corruption in the Senate, sloth-like Jedi, and businessmen blockading and invading planets, it looks like Hell was already breaking loose by the time the film starts."

The Senate was on the verge of being corrupted because Palpatine isn't even promoted to Supreme Chancellor until the end of the film so there was no reason for any star system to start a Seperatist movement. Nobody within the Senate (save Palpatine and Valorum) is aware that 2 Jedi are sent to negotiate with the Trade Feds and nobody from Queen Amidala's camp has evidence to prove that the TF made illegal occupations on her planet so basically, Hell hasn't even started to burst.

"The innocent people of Naboo were dying as the invasion of Naboo went unchecked since the Jedi didn't want to get in trouble."

There's nothing on film to indicate that the people on Naboo were dying and all that talk is what Qui-Gon considered "bait to establish a connection trace" to the Queen's ship.

Gezvader28-"Well you can say it as loud as you like but you're still not making any sense."

Because you're not listening.

"I'll ask again:

How can contacting the Jedi for help=Losing the senate's trust?"

Contacting the Jedi for help means they are committing insubordination just by defying the Senate's authority because they were NOT ordered to go to Naboo in the first place. Such an act is considered treachery which means the Senate will lose their trust in the Jedi.

Jabba-wocky-"There was no implication whatsoever in TPM that what Valorum did in ordering Jedi negotiators to go in secret was illegal. Just because something is secret doens't mean it's illegal."

Unless the Senate finds out about the secret mission.

 

Contacting the Jedi for help means they are committing insubordination just by defying the Senate's authority because they were NOT ordered to go to Naboo in the first place. Such an act is considered treachery which means the Senate will lose their trust in the Jedi.

So what are you saying - that the Jedi Council didn't know that QG was on a mission? And that if QG contacted the JC they would then run to the Senate and say "2 of our Jedi are on a secret mission, we've committed insubordination and treachery!"
And what about when QG returned - do you imagine that he never mentioned to the JC where he'd been?

And since when were missions not ordered by the Senate considered insubordination? That would make it rather hard to have any secret missions.

And QG isn't on Naboo when he needs help, he's on Tatooine, so even if his presence on Naboo was a no-no it's not a problem.


g

 

Loco for Lucas-"Wasn't the Galaxy already on the brink of collapse in TPM? You have corruption in the Senate, sloth-like Jedi, and businessmen blockading and invading planets, it looks like Hell was already breaking loose by the time the film starts."

The Senate was on the verge of being corrupted because Palpatine isn't even promoted to Supreme Chancellor until the end of the film so there was no reason for any star system to start a Seperatist movement. Nobody within the Senate (save Palpatine and Valorum) is aware that 2 Jedi are sent to negotiate with the Trade Feds and nobody from Queen Amidala's camp has evidence to prove that the TF made illegal occupations on her planet so basically, Hell hasn't even started to burst.

Let's take a look at it, shall we? Did the Senate know a Jedi was being dispatched for an investigation? That he was being used? And who sent Obi-wan? Palpatine, without Senate approval. So we have the Chancellor sending a Jedi to handle affairs behind the Senate's back, in secret.

How is the assassination attempt on a Senator any different than a blockade and inevitable invasion of a sovereign planet of the Republic? Don't you think the Senate would want to know about that? Obi-wan felt it was necessary to tell of an army that posed a danger to the Republic, why not tell the Senate about an army that was posing an IMMINENT threat to the planet of Naboo? The droids were already on Naboo soil, the droid army in AOTC was not even mobilizing yet.

There's nothing on film to indicate that the people on Naboo were dying and all that talk is what Qui-Gon considered "bait to establish a connection trace" to the Queen's ship.

There's nothing in the film that would suggest covert Jedi operations would anger the Senate. On the contrary, we see in AOTC that covert Jedi operations don't bother the Senate at all.

And what makes you believe that people would NOT be dying on Naboo? Just because the transmission may have been bait, that does not mean people weren't dying.

 

There's nothing on film to indicate that the people on Naboo were dying and all that talk is what Qui-Gon considered "bait to establish a connection trace" to the Queen's ship.

And yet curiously whenever I've debated with you about why Padme never tried to free Shmi you say that Padme was too busy helping her own people because of the massive devastation caused by the TF.

g

 

Gezvader28-"So what are you saying - that the Jedi Council didn't know that QG was on a mission? And that if QG contacted the JC they would then run to the Senate and say "2 of our Jedi are on a secret mission, we've committed insubordination and treachery!"
And what about when QG returned - do you imagine that he never mentioned to the JC where he'd been?"

You are misinterpreting what I said.

The Jedi Council is well aware that Qui-Gon is on a mission (after all they handpicked him and Obi-wan for this mission) but they can't go to the Senate and tell them about Qui-Gon's secret mission knowing what repurcussions they'll bring upon themselves.

"And since when were missions not ordered by the Senate considered insubordination?"

The kind that if discovered, the Senate will declare martial law on the Jedi.

"And QG isn't on Naboo when he needs help, he's on Tatooine, so even if his presence on Naboo was a no-no it's not a problem."

It is when there's also a matter of the Trade Federation monitoring their transmissions which would enable them to locate the Queen. Even Qui-Gon mentioned to Obi-wan that it was too dangerous to call for help.

"And yet curiously whenever I've debated with you about why Padme never tried to free Shmi you say that Padme was too busy helping her own people because of the massive devastation caused by the TF."

And you wouldn't go for that because you believed that Padme had plenty of time to free Shmi which I don't agree with.


Loco for Lucas-"Let's take a look at it, shall we? Did the Senate know a Jedi was being dispatched for an investigation? That he was being used? And who sent Obi-wan? Palpatine, without Senate approval. So we have the Chancellor sending a Jedi to handle affairs behind the Senate's back, in secret."

There are several senators that were with Palpatine when he authorized Padme to be in protective custody by the Jedi, they already know that she was sent back to Naboo, and they already knew that the Jedi would attempt to find out the assassin's identity and who he's working for so it wasn't a secret.

"How is the assassination attempt on a Senator any different than a blockade and inevitable invasion of a soverign planet of the Republic?

The assassination attempts are connected to the Seperatist movement whereas nobody within the Senate knows anything about an invasion on Naboo. You saw in the Senate scenes when Padme tries to tell the Senate that her planet is being taken over, the Trade Feds act innocent by saying she has no proof and the Senators from Malastare agreed with the TF.

"Don't you think the Senate would want to know about that?"

They would if the Jedi's involvement weren't a secret.

"Obi-wan felt it was necessary to tell of an army that posed a danger to the Republic, why not tell the Senate about an army that was posing an IMMINENT threat to the planet of Naboo?"

Like I said, if Obi-wan or Qui-Gon told the Senate about the hostile takeover of Naboo, then EVERYONE will be in deep poodoo. Valorum, the Jedi, and the Trade Federation will all be court-martialed by the Senate just for these reasons:

Valorum-for going behind the Senate's backs by secretly sending 2 Jedi to investigate the crisis.

The Jedi- for participating in Valorum's secret mission.

and

The Trade Federation-for making an illegal invasion on Naboo and dispatching battledroid armies on a defenseless planet.

Nobody will be living happlily ever after except for Palpatine since he'll still be promoted to Supreme Chancellor and conquer the universe.

"There's nothing in the film that would suggest covert Jedi operations would anger the Senate. On the contrary, we see in AOTC that covert Jedi operations don't bother the Senate at all."

That's different because with the Seperatist movement causing a lot of hectic madness throughout the galaxy, the Republic would approve of any action the Jedi makes to bring peace and stability back to the galaxy.

"And what makes you believe that people would NOT be dying on Naboo? Just because the transmi

 

The Jedi Council is well aware that Qui-Gon is on a mission (after all they handpicked him and Obi-wan for this mission

So I'll ask again :
How can contacting the Jedi for help=Losing the senate's trust?

but they can't go to the Senate and tell them about Qui-Gon's secret mission knowing what repurcussions they'll bring upon themselves.

So they don't go to the Senate. wow, that was difficult.

It is when there's also a matter of the Trade Federation monitoring their transmissions which would enable them to locate the Queen. Even Qui-Gon mentioned to Obi-wan that it was too dangerous to call for help.

I addressed that in my very first post.

Unless I see a dead person, then there's no reason to believe that the people of Naboo were actually dying.

I didn't see any dead Alderaan folk after the planet was blown up, guess they're all okay then.

Which is it - according to you Padme had to spend 10 years rebuilding the massive devastation caused by the TF.
Now you're saying no-one was killed.
Which is it?

g

 

"So, i'll ask again:
How can contacting the Jedi for help=Losing the senate's trust?"

You already have my answer but if you can't understand jibberish, then let me clarify:

Contacting the Jedi for help will mean committing insubordination against the Senate because they were NOT ordered to go to Naboo from the start. The Senate does not tolerate any form of insurrection and having a group of Jedi going to Naboo without their permission is one of them. If it ever happened, the Senate will never trust the Jedi again without feeling that they'll commit another act of insurrection.

Is that clear? Does that spell it out for you?

"So they don't go to the Senate. wow, that was difficult."

Your right, maybe Valorum should tell the Senate instead even if it means losing his position as Supreme Chancellor.

"Which is it- according to you Padme had to spend 10 years rebuilding the massive devastation caused by the TF.
Now you're saying no-one was killed.
Which is it?"

Whether or not there was any dead people on-screen is irrelevant but that doesn't mean that Padme can't tend to her people so they can recover from damages done by the Trade Feds.

 

Hmmm... still more stuff that does not add up...

...Panaka and Kenobi, two of the most single-minded guardians that Amidala could ask for...

...both having a breach of concentration long enough to allow themselves to be traced...

Maybe this is a script ridden with holes, poor dialogue and unfeasible plot points.

Or... maybe there is more to be revealed in Episode III.

A line that was cut from a previous draft makes it clear (probably too clear) that the crew did not send any compromising transmissions:

KENOBI (to Jinn over comlink): ...but absolutely no transmissions were sent...


Sure is strange that these two smart guys, acting in collusion with a third smart guy, gave themselves away...


Unless...

...there was a surveillance device planted among them...

...before they ever left Naboo...


...but who...?

...how...?

..why...?

(pondering...)

 

There are several senators that were with Palpatine when he authorized Padme to be in protective custody by the Jedi, they already know that she was sent back to Naboo, and they already knew that the Jedi would attempt to find out the assassin's identity and who he's working for so it wasn't a secret.

How does "several senators" compare to the entire Senate? We don't know how many Senators were present when Valorum sent the Jedi to Naboo, for all we know, there may have been just as many present and it would still be considered secret since the Senate wasn't informed, just like in AOTC.

The assassination attempts are connected to the Seperatist movement whereas nobody within the Senate knows anything about an invasion on Naboo. You saw in the Senate scenes when Padme tries to tell the Senate that her planet is being taken over, the Trade Feds act innocent by saying she has no proof and the Senators from Malastare agreed with the TF.

The assassination attempts were suspected to be connected to the Separtist movement; they had every bit of evidence connecting the assassination attempts to the Separtists as they had about the Naboo invasion, if not less.

They would if the Jedi's involvement weren't a secret.

AOTC shows that secretiveness doesn't bother the Senate.

Like I said, if Obi-wan or Qui-Gon told the Senate about the hostile takeover of Naboo, then EVERYONE will be in deep poodoo. Valorum, the Jedi, and the Trade Federation will all be court-martialed by the Senate just for these reasons:

Valorum-for going behind the Senate's backs by secretly sending 2 Jedi to investigate the crisis.

The Jedi- for participating in Valorum's secret mission.

and

The Trade Federation-for making an illegal invasion on Naboo and dispatching battledroid armies on a defenseless planet.

So the Senate would simply gloss over the invasion of Naboo, not caring about deaths or prisoners or sovereignty violations? Why didn't the Senate block the invasion of Geonosis? There was no real proof that there was a droid army there, but they had no qualms about sending in armed forces after a covertly dispatched Jedi sent a transmission. They didn't need proof, and they didn't need evidence. The Separtists would have played innocent just as the Feds did in EpI.

That's different because with the Seperatist movement causing a lot of hectic madness throughout the galaxy, the Republic would approve of any action the Jedi makes to bring peace and stability back to the galaxy.

What "hectic madness" is there in the Galaxy that isn't already there in TPM? Trouble in the Senate? Check. Unpopular opinions? Check. Factions going rogue? Check. Militarization and acting against the Republic? Check. The only thing that's different is that we're told that commotion is going on in the Senate, which was already corrupt (hence the No Confidence scene); so there really isn't a lick of difference between the two scenarios.

Unless I see a dead person, then there's no reason to believe that the people of Naboo were actually dying.

And unless I see the Senate get angry for the Jedi being involved in covert operations, there's no reason to believe the Jedi had to keep the invasion of Naboo a secret.

 

Personally I think everyone is overthinking this way too much. I think Qui-Gon did not contact the Jedi because that transmission would be far to easily intercepted and decrypted by the enemy. This would give away their location on Tatooine for sure, bringing the TF down on them quickly. The connection trace used by the Sith to locate them on tatooine was something that Qui-Gon knew was a possibility but not a for sure thing. Sending an SOS call to the Jedi would have been a near certainty that the enemy would find out.

 

Strilo, how dare you suggest there is a simple answer, in Star Wars of all things!

 

Contacting the Jedi for help will mean committing insubordination against the Senate because they were NOT ordered to go to Naboo from the start.

But you've already pointed out that the JC sent QG and Kenobi, so the JC already know about the mission.
So how can contacting the JC for help=losing the senate's trust? The JC aren't suddenly going to tell the senate about the mission just because QG contacted them for help.

Is that clear? Does that spell it out for you?

No it doesn't. At all. What are you talking about?

Your right, maybe Valorum should tell the Senate instead even if it means losing his position as Supreme Chancellor.

What?!? Why would Valorum tell the senate?

Whether or not there was any dead people on-screen is irrelevant but that doesn't mean that Padme can't tend to her people so they can recover from damages done by the Trade Feds.

So you're saying that no-one died because you saw no dead bodies, but that Padme was busy 24/7 for 10 years helping her people rebuild the damage done -

... and how much damage did you see done?


g

 

I'm not sure I understand the reason for this debate. One can see in the opening crawl of TPM that 2 Jedi were dipatched by Chancellor Valorum to investigate the blockade of Naboo. To me it would have been insubordination for the Jedi Council to refuse to send the Jedi as the chancellor ordered. And as for the chancellor loosing his job by sending the Jedi in secret; he may have sent them in secret, but as chancellor he sent then in the name of the Senate and of the Republic. In short, the man was just doing his job!

 

Loco for Lucas- "How does "several senators" compare to the entire Senate?"

Uhhh, they represent the Senate. That's how.

"We don't know how many Senators were present when Valorum sent the Jedi to Naboo, for all we know, there may have been just as many present and it would still be considered secret since the Senate wasn't informed, just like in AOTC."

Actually, we do know that only 1 Senator was with Valorum when he sent the Jedi to Naboo and that was Palpatine so that comparison doesn't count.

"The assassination attempts were suspected to be connected to the Seperatist movement; they had every bit of evidence connecting to the assassination attempts to the Seperatists as they had about the Naboo invasion, if not less."

But there is no evidence proving the Trade Federation made an illegal invasion on Naboo because otherwise, the entire Senate wouldn't have agreed with the Trade Feds when they said that Padme didn't have any proof.

"AOTC shows that secretiveness doesn't bother the Senate."

There is no secretiveness involved because everyone is aware that the Jedi are investigating Padme's assassination attempts.

"So the Senate would simply gloss over the invasion of Naboo, not caring about deaths or prisoners or sovereignty violations?"

How can the Senate gloss over the invasion of Naboo when they had no idea it was happening? Again, watch the Senate scene.

"Why didn't the Senate block the invasion of Geonosis? There was no real proof that there was a droid army there, but they had no qualms about sending in armed forces after a covertly dispatched Jedi sent a transmission."

Actually, they just saw Obi-wan being attacked by a droideka so that was proof enough that a droid army is assembling on Geonosis.

"They didn't need proof, and they didn't need evidence."

Yes, they do because there would be no reason for the Senate to give Palpatine emergency powers if there wasn't any evidence that the Seperatists were massing droid armies on Geonosis.

"What "hectic madness" is there in the Galaxy that isn't already there in TPM? Trouble in the Senate? Check. Unpopular opinions? Check. Factions going rogue? Check. Militarization and acting against the Republic? Check. The only thing that's different is that we're told that commotion is going on in the Senate, which was already corrupt (hence the No Confidence scene); so there really isn't a lick of difference between the two scenerios."

Yes, there is a difference between the two scenarios--the knowledge that there's trouble brewing somewhere in the galaxy. In TPM, nobody except those involved are aware that there's an invasion on Naboo whereas in AOTC, the Senate recieved a hologram message from Obi-wan informing them of the Seperatists' occupation on Geonosis and witnessing him being attacked by a droideka just as the message was ending which enabled the Senate to act fast.

TPM=no knowledge
AOTC=knowledge

"And unless I see the Senate get angry for the Jedi being involved in covert operations, there's no reason to believe the Jedi had to keep the invasion of Naboo a secret."

That moment will happen in Episode 3.

Gezvader28-"But you've already pointed out that the JC sent QG and Kenobi, so the JC already know about the mission."

That doesn't mean they would openly revolt against the Republic just to help Obi-wan and Qui-Gon. Like every military operation, once you are behind enemy lines you are on your own.

"So how can contacting the the JC for help=losing the snate's trust?"

Why do you ask questions when you already know the answer.

"The JC aren't suddenly going to tell the senate about the mission just because QG contacted them for help."

There are other ways in which the Senate will learn about the Jedi's involvement on Naboo and it doesn't have to do with the Jedi telling them.

"No it doesn't. At all. What are you talking about?"

I give up.

"What?!? Why would Valorum tell the senate?"

Because Qui-Gon told about what's happening on Naboo.

"So you're saying that no-one died because y

 

That doesn't mean they would openly revolt against the Republic just to help Obi-wan and Qui-Gon.

......whaaat?? How can helping QG, Kenobi and the elected Queen of Naboo=open revolt against the Republic? Where are you getting this from?
QG returns to Coruscant with the Queen anyway, he gets off the ship with her in broad daylight.
The JC have already 'helped' them - they sent them on the mission.
How can contacting the Jedi=losing the senate's trust?

Like every military operation, once you are behind enemy lines you are on your own.

Firstly - that's not true.
Secondly - what 'enemy lines'? They're not at war.
Thirdly - since when were missions not ordered by the Senate considered insubordination? That would make it rather hard to have any secret missions.



There are other ways in which the Senate will learn about the Jedi's involvement on Naboo and it doesn't have to do with the Jedi telling them.

Maybe, but how can contacting the the JC for help=losing the snate's trust?"
You haven't answered that at all.

I only said I didn't see any dead bodies but I didn't say noone was dying

Yes you did:

"Unless I see a dead person, then there's no reason to believe that the people of Naboo were actually dying."

So do you want to make up your mind, or are you just going to keep twisting and turning?

-Blown up vehicles.
- Scattered pieces of battledroid parts lying all over the palace and on the grassfields.
-Battle-worn walls in portions of the palace.

And Padme would clear all that up would she?

-Starvation(who knows how long the people of Naboo went without food).
-

and how many people did you see starving?
or are you now abandoning this theory of 'didn't see it- didn't happen'.?

And how would this affect Padme from helping Shmi? Once the TF are defeated the Naboo aren't going to continue to starve.

g

 

I'm not sure I understand the reason for this debate.

One can see in the opening crawl of TPM that 2 Jedi

were dipatched by Chancellor Valorum to investigate

the blockade of Naboo. To me it would have been

insubordination for the Jedi Council to refuse

to send the Jedi as the chancellor had ordered. And as

for the Jedi incurring the wrath of the senate for

going on this 'secret' mission; it was my impression

that the Jedi Council was answerable only to

the chancellor and not to the senate.

 

Furbaby, we don't really understand either, since what you said is true.

However, that does beg the question of the overall topic. That is, since the Jedi are only answerable to the Council, they aren't doing anything illegal, and Padme and Co are any a pretty urgent situation

What doesn't Qui-Gon contact the Jedi for help?

 

Maybe Qui Gon didn't have the services of the equipment to scramble code 5

 

I didn't understand what all the debating had to do with the topic either!!

 

Furbaby-"It was my impression that the Jedi Council was answerable only to the Chancellor and not to the senate."

But the Chancellor gets his power from the Senate and he can't pass any laws without their approval.

Gezvader28-".......whaaat? How can helping QG, Kenobi, and the elected Queen of Naboo=open revolt against the Republic?"

Must I have to tell you again? Here goes...

-The Jedi takes orders from the Republic.
-The Republic NEVER authorized the Jedi to get involved in the Naboo invasion incident.
-Qui-Gon and Obi-wan's involvement is a secret to the REPUBLIC.
and
-Sending several Jedi to help QG and Kenobi even when they weren't told to go is considered an act of insurrection by the Republic because the Jedi are breaking their rules and going against their authority by helping the people of Naboo.

The Republic does not tolerate any form of insurrection and the Jedi are NOT rulebreakers like Qui-Gon so they aren't going to stoop to his level no matter how grim the situation is.

"QG returns to Coruscant with the Queen anyway, he gets off the ship with her in broad daylight."

But they landed on an isolated landing platform, not in front of the Galactic Senate Chamber where hundreads of senators are located.

"Firstly - that's not true."

Uhhh, it is VERY true.

Don't you watch army movies like "Behind Enemy Lines, Rambo, Predator, Saving Private Ryan, etc."? Every operation involves a military unit going to foreign countries even at the risk of not having any back up. Every time they call for help, they're told that they are on their own because noone wants to go through enemy lines.

"Secondly - what 'enemy lines'? They're not at war."

Naboo is the enemy lines and once Sidious told the Trade Feds to kill the Jedi, then it became a war.

"Thirdly - since when were missions not ordered by the Senate considered insubordination?"

Since it is the Senate that organized the secret missions and hires the Jedi for these missions.

"Maybe, but how contacting the the JC for help=losing the snate's trust? You haven't answered that at all."

I've been answering your question a million times but you still refuse to listen. If your friends called you for help and you decided to go help them despite that your boss tells you not to, then you risk losing your job by defying his authority. A similar, more gruesome fate would happen to the Jedi if they helped Qui-Gon and Obi-wan in defiance against the Republic.

"And Padme would clear all that up would she?"

But it doesn't take her 5 minutes to clean up all that garbage.

"and how many people did you see starving? or are you now abandoning this theory of 'didn't see it-didn't happen'?"

You've been going by this theory too since you believe the Senate won't punish the Jedi just for being involved in the Naboo issue and for helping Qui-Gon and Obi-wan.

"And how would this affect Padme from helping Shmi? Once the TF are defeated the Naboo aren't going to continue to starve."

But there's still a matter of economic setbacks because with the amount of damage left from the war with the Trade Feds and the cleanups, there's no telling how much money was lost.

 

"But the Chancellor gets his power from the Senate and he can't pass any laws without their approval."

I'm sure this is true, but what has this to do with the Jedi going on a mission at the request or demand of the chancellor? Also it is said in TPM that the Jedi arrived to 'force a settlement'. Why would the senate be against this? How do you know that the senate didn't authorize Valorum to send the Jedi? After all, it was the then Senator Palpatine who requested that the Jedi be sent on behalf of Queen Amidala (remember the hologram where palpatine addresses the queen and says that he had assurances from the chancellor that the Jedi 'ambassadors' did arrive).