ST Why don't Jedi need any training in TFA

There was another character that was like that. Using the force with out really know it. Who was it. OH yeah Anakin. Rey is the female Anakin. She like Anakin was using the force her whole life with out knowing it.

 

So not Space Jesus 2.0, Space Mary 1.0 then?


She wasn't shown to use the Force on daily life at all. I mean otherwise she would have mind tricked her way to full rations not get done in

 

Kylo is injured and mentally not all there. I will go back to the mentally not all there in a minute. Chewbaccs just shot him with his bow caster. Did we not see how dang powerful that thing is early in the film? Kylo was bleeding and hurt. On to the mental part. They guy has issues he is torn between the light and the dark. He just killed his dad and know is at that point even more torn. On top of that it showed for the whole film that he dose not have a great mental state. Anakin Skywalker he is not. For as evil as Anakin was Anakin had a good mental state.

Anakin from AOTC would have kicked Kylo around all day long. Anakin from ROTS well the fight would last all of a minute. The one big theme in all the films is those who don't remain clam or control there emotions.

Obi-wan vs Maul - Obi-wan was no longer in control of his emotions. Maul was in complete control of his. When Obi-wan got control again he won.

Anakin vs Dooku part 1 - Anakin had no control over his emotions and lost to Dooku badly.

Anakin vs Dooku part 2 - Anakin this time had more control of his emotions and was able to beat him.

Anakin vs Obi-wan - To a point Anakin could have won if not for the fact the he was not in control of his emotions and had blind hate at that point. Obi-wan wins.

Vader vs Obi-wan - Vader has more control over his emotions. Though this was more Obi-wan giving his life. But in the long run Vader would have won this any ways.

Vader vs Luke - Vader had far more control of his emotions then Luke. For much of the fight Vader was toying with him. Sure Luke got lucky a few times but Vader was going to win this.

Vader vs Luke part 2 - Luke is more in control even when Vader finds out about Leia and Luke goes into a rage Luke is still about to control himself because he had focused himself. In fact he was the only one to have gone into a rage and be able to do that.

I won't bring up Yoda at all because well the Yoda and Palpatine because that was always going to be a deadlocked fight. They both have control and it would come down to luck more then anything else.

So back to Kylo and Rey. Kylo had not dang control over his emotions and was injured. How was he going to win the fight against Rey who was not injured and had control of her emotions?

Because Kylo is more powerful. Yeah how did that work out for Anakin, Luke and Obi-wan in there fights? It's not about power it's about control of ones emotions when using said power.

To quote Superman when talking about who is more powerful between him and Kara. Yes Kara can show more power. But Superman would beat her based on the fact he has more control over his powers knows his limits and does not let his emotions get the best of him.

So yeah you can have all the power in the world can you control it and keep your emotions in check to CONTROL them. Kylo was not doing a good job of that.

 

Still seems to be consensus that it was ok for Rey to pick up on the mindtrick but the weakening of Ren..( he was badley injured) but his quality seemed to dimminish after such a ferious strat

 

She probably has a far higher Midichlorian count then Kylo tho. Just sayin. :>

 

Off to go watch it again. Gonna pay special attention to the vision and interrogation scenes

 

Right so just finished watching it again.

1 - in the scene where they escape Jakku, Fin asks where will they get a pilot. Rey answers they have a pilot, so we know she is a pilot.

2 - she knows about all the mods on Falcon due to living on Jakku, she tells Han each time about the changes Unkar Plutt had made to the ship, so she must have worked on it before.

3 - after the interrogation Kylo tells Snoke she is untrained, so that is confirmed then

4 - at the end of the vision sequence a voice (possibly Obi-wan) says "these are the 1st steps"


5 - after she escapes Kylo says to the Stormtroopers that she is beginning to test her powers.

Now this still doesn't fit well for me as by Kylo stating she is untrained it means training is still part of the lore to be able to control the Force.

It's also confirmed she is a new user, the "1st steps" reference is evidence of that as well as mentioning that she is testing her powers.

So the 1st time she tests her powers she does so by executing the mind trick and then also completely turns the tide during the sabre battle by focusing the Force.

Episode 8 has a lot of explaining to do

 

I love to see the development of a Jedi through their training, and they can't just have Rey 'let the force in' because that goes agains Luke's path with Yoda. However, the way I see it is as follows:

1. Rey shows herself early in the film to be a tidy fighter, easily beating two guys on Jakku. She's tough and she knows how to handle herself.
2. Kylo is badly injured and more importantly, has just killed his father. He is clearly unstable and his head isn't right. He isn't firing on all cylinders, and this gives Rey an advantage.
3. (This is what I expect) Rey is strong with the force, is a person of real significance and so has natural force abilities. This was enough to get her over the line in her fight with Kylo (who I don't think is anywhere near the level of a Vader or Maul).

The Jedi mind trick stuff is a stretch to explain, but if she turns out to be an awesome, super powerful Jedi, then in retrospect, it will work.

Finn - I don't think he is force sensitive, but that doesn't mean he can't use a lightsabre. He is a well-trained soldier after all.

 

Is it possible that Luke could have been helping Rey from afar, especially when fighting Kylo? It made me think that yes the Force was calling Rey through Luke's lightsaber, but could this also have been Luke, especially since she is the one sent to him and brings his lightsaber. So I am wondering could Luke now be so powerful that he helped Rey fight Kylo through the Force.

Darth Sin!

 

Just a guess, but I had kind of suspected that Rey is either Luke's kid, or at least perhaps a former pupil of his that he hid away when things with Kylo Ren turned Sour and he killed/seduced Luke's other students.

She may have had some Force training, but given her age when she was left on Jakku she might not remember.

My suspicion is that this will be the angle that they play. That she may be Luke's only surviving pupil and the only one Kylo failed to eliminate (other than Luke himself). I think her relationship to Luke is implied given comments about how the saga will continue the tale of the Skywalker family, because she overpowered Anakin's grandson, and because Anakin's saber called to her.

She is Anakin's heir, while Kylo is Vader's. And I wouldn't be surprised if she had received some early training before she was hidden away.

I also suspect she has a connection drawing her to Luke. Or that he called to here. Luke coincidentally crashes on Dagobah in close proximity to Yoda, while Rey seems to immediately know where Luke is on a planet of islands. I get that they had a map, but that map seemed to only be a Star map.

 

My understanding is the force awakening in Rey is what made her powerful. Rey was shown to be a good fighter and strong minded before she started using the force. The Jedi mind trick did not work at first. When she became calm and concentrated it worked. This does not go against force canon and the force also can communicate to a person as well. The way it was handled was not over the top IMO. To me, it made the force what it should be mystical. Explaining Rey's force ability would diminish the mystical element to this movie. The fight with Kylo she was losing until she listened to the force. I thought that was done very well. I think we might be overestimating Kylo's training as well because he did not seem like he was in control. He was emotional and unsure of his own abilities. His power did not flow from hate but pain that was self inflicted. Kylo was struggling with the dark and the light so he was not a master level Sith either. Kylo was stronger than Rey but Rey's focus and calm allowed the force to flow thru her. That is why she got the best of him. Episode 8 might reveal Luke was helping guide her but because we did not get an explanation we can use our imagination. Which is cool and why this movie works IMO.

 

I think there are 4 crucial things to keep in mind.

1) She could already fight before and had a lot of similarities to Anakin as far as her aptitude.

2) The vision was a strong awakening. For all we know it was partly Luke driving it all.

3) When Ren attempted to break into her mind and she resisted and went into his she likely picked up some basics of his training and stole some of his understanding of the Force. Think of that scene as a key scene and mental "download" for her. It was a complete backfire for Ren in more ways than one.

4) There has been an awakening within the Force so powerful that it can be felt everywhere. The light side of the Force, itself, can sense the impending doom and growth of the Dark side and all of that power and that quest for balance is powerfully manifesting itself within Rey as a result of the circumstances.

 

I quite like where you going with this. Can explain why she dreams of the island where they eventually find Luke.

 

Look, sorry if this was already covered, but has anyone considered that Rey may have actually been just a gifted a Padawan under Luke's training when she was just a child? AKA the age Jedi should be trained.

But when the nights of Ren betrayed and killed Jedi in the school, was she whisked off to a far flung planet to hide her identity? And given this happen at such an early age, perhaps she forgot much of her training?

At the end of the film, is Luke just gob smacked this this "little" child which used to be under his guidance has found her way back to her master across the whole galaxy, despite his best attempts to stay hidden.

It think Rey has had some form of training prior to the movie, but it has lain dormant without guidance for so long and only awakens through the many circumstances which occurred during the movie.....


And let's not forget Kylo was shot before the fight. And not shot by just any blaster. He was shot fair in the guts by chewie's blaster. You know the blaster they made such a big deal about being powerful on at least two occasions during the movie. The same blaster that sends storm troopers flying in the air each time they had been hit by said blaster.

Kylo is a strong, and crazy force user even to be alive at this point , let alone take on two combatants. One being a highly trained storm trooper who topped his training, and the other a very proficient fighter in her own right. Even then Kylo kicked fins arse, and was also beating Rey,right up to the point he offered her some Training in the force. At which point she calmed down, felt the force awakens in her, and proceeded to kick some dark side BUTT. You go girl...... Awsome character and Awsome fight.






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