Why dont the jedi use the darkside for combat.

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Agriias, Nov 27, 2003.

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  1. Agriias Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2000
    In another thread someone put together a list of light vs darkside duels. in every instance the darkside wins in combat with the jedi only doing well in instances where they give in to the darkside slightly.

    Quigon vs maul=maul wins
    maulvs obi= maul wins, obi gives in briefly does alright, then gets forced push. maul is dumb and dies

    dooku vs obi/anakin=dooku wins

    dooku vs yoda = draw

    vader vs obi= vader

    vader vs luke=vader

    and im sure in EP3 there is going to be nothing but more darkside victories.

    My question is this: What is wrong with using the darkside in combat? When it comes down to it, a lightsaber duel is going to lead to someones death surely. So why would you limit your own power to stay under control and calm? i think the darksiders stay pretty calm, just they focus their rage and are alot more powerful..

    The downfalls of the darkside are obvious in general use, but why would this apply to combat? Is it so feared that even practicing the darkside for combat purposes is that dangerous that you may possibly turn completely to the dark? Yoda probes the darkside when he uses it to foresee the future. everyone has to dabble in it somewhat.

    I feel like the jedi and sith are extreme opposites on their interpretations and applications of the force.

    the sith using it strictly for self gain, instant gratification and selfish reasons.

    whereas the Jedi reject their own humanity by supressing their emotions, remaining calm, and just be sort of cold and mechanical in a way..

    Luke i feel is the best balance between both of these forces, he dabbles in the darkside, too much success when it was needed, but remains light. obviously the dangers of giving into the darkside completely must be heeded, but if you could control your emotions and channel your anger like a sith, what is there to fear? nothing.

  2. JediMasterGuff Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 18, 2002
    star 5
    If they start to use the Dark Side, they will succumb to it and they would realise they have power, they would then want more. To get more power you need to take it from from others, which could injure or kill people, which is obviously not part of the Jedi way of the life.
  3. Darth_Tynaus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 22, 2003
    star 4
    I agree with that totally. Once a jedi goes down the dark path, foever will it consume hi/her.
  4. markypogmark82 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2003
    I allways got the impression Yoda really won the Dooku dual - he was stopped only by loyalty to Obi and Anakin. I think that a Jedi strong in the force (like Yoda) can defeat a darksider in combat without using the dark side. However, the process of deepening thier power in the force is much longer and more strenuous -"the darkside is eisier, faster and more seductive". There is no point in allowing the darkside to be an ally as it eats at a Jedi's soul and "will forever dominate your destiny". The Jedi may struggle in combat with the darkside -but if they die, they do so in peace in the force -this is surely better than the lonlyness and dispair of darkness.
  5. Compactor_3263827 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 10, 2003
    star 2
    Yeah. A jedi would almost definitely succumb if they used the dark side.

    But I did hear somewhere of Plo Koon using force lightining from time to time...

    'Electric judgement' I think it was called.
  6. JediMasterGuff Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 18, 2002
    star 5
    He used it in Jedi Power Battles.
  7. sithpro2 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 6, 2002
    star 2
    techinically, a jedi uses his skill only as defense. beyond that, it is using the dark side.

    when luke attacked vader in the emperor's chamber on the death star 2, he used the dark side. the only thing that kept him from turning to it full time was the realization that it was happening by looking at his artificial hand.
  8. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    Because it's not all about fighting and combat. Why don't nations use tactial nukes? They have them, and they're more powerful than conventional weapons? Why isn't total warfare popular anymore, with intentionally heavy civilian casualties?

    It's all because "success" isn't as objective and static as we sometimes portray it. It has a lot to do with quality of life, and the way you live it. It's just not worth to do some things in order to achieve some goals.

    For the Jedi, its not worth it to use the Dakr Side just to make duels easier.
  9. Agriias Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2000
    Jedimastergruff.

    what do you mean they have to take their powers from others? whent alking about the sith. In what way do they do this?
  10. I-poodoo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 1, 2001
    star 4
    "What is wrong with using the darkside in combat?"-Agrilas

    Repeat that to yourself, Agrilas, do you realize what you're saying...It's alright to use the darkside as long as you win the fight-The ends justify the means.
    The darkside isn't an energy source you can turn off and tuck into your belt till the next fight. No, its hooks are deep. Once you use it the first time it's all too easy to use it the second, the third, and on untill you're using it without even thinking about it, and to use it with any skill to defeat a sithlord you must be angry, afraid, or hateful on a regular basis not fly into a blind berserker rage as soon as someone attacks you. To be as powerful and skillfull with darkside as Maul, Dooku, and especially Vader and Palpatine you'd have to not just be angry or afraid or hateful for a regrettable moment youd have to be malicious, villainously uncaring about others, evil. That is ofcourse completely counter to everything the Jedi stand for.

  11. Agriias Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2000
    Yes i agree, you would probally have to be regularly focused on negative energy to become skilled enough to fight under control while using the darkside.

    But, when you are engauged in a saber to saber duel, the ends do justify the means, your fighting for your life, and in the case of the jedi, they generally dont start these confrontations.
  12. I-poodoo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 1, 2001
    star 4
    "But, when you are engauged in a saber to saber duel, the ends do justify the means, your fighting for your life, and in the case of the jedi, they generally dont start these confrontations."-Agrilas

    Yes, pragmatically I'd agree, but Jedi aren't pragmatists. You're question is why do the Jedi not use the Darkside of the Force during combat. My answer would be because the consequences of doing so can be too dangerous and worse than losing and dying.
    This is stupid to you and me, we see it in practical millitaristic terms...what good could it serve if they die at the hands of a Sith. He's free to continue his villiany. But the Jedi are a religious order primarily the battle between them and the Sith is over theology, and ideology, as much with practical physical combat.
    Something else you should remember is that Jedi aren't afraid to die for a cause. That sort of thinking's ingrained into them from before they're younglings. Now to use the darkside even to win a fight against a Sith, would be from a moment of desperation and of fear of dying, thus winning the fight but only by virtue of defeating their entire life's purpose to do so.


    Oh and just because the Darkside is easier, and apparently more powerful in a fight doesn't mean it's the more powerful side of the force.
  13. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    To say the ends justify the means in any case is to say, on the whole, that the ends justify the means.

    What do I mean?

    You guys just implied we shouldn't think the ends justify the means. Then you just opened the caveat "but in a duel. . .". But that's a full acceptance of the philosophy.

    Because to say "the end justifies the means" is to say discernment should be used in picking your goals, and not in designing ways to fulfill them. All you did was use you're discernment and say that winning a duel against the Sith was a worthwhile goal while other things weren't. Metternich (whom many consider one of the major contributors to this philosophy) wouldn't have done the exact same thing (in-terms of decision making proccess). The only thing beyond this is to have no discnerment at all.

    I just wondered if you guys were aware of that.
  14. Agriias Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2000
    umm what?

    Just because the ends justify the means in a closed situation, such as a duel to the death, does not commit you to the philosophy that the ends justify the means as a whole.

    its more like, the ends dont justify the means, but if put in a life or death situation against a sith, someone obviously dangerous and dirty, then whatever means should be used to defeat them because them living is wose then you using the darkside to rid the universe of pure evil, that will obviously do more damage then you using the darkside to defeat the evil
  15. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    "techinically, a jedi uses his skill only as defense. beyond that, it is using the dark side."

    Here's something I posted in Luke does a Force Choke???..
    It was decided that learning the ways of the Force had to be a constant struggle for Luke and the he would always have to prove himself. In regard to the Dark Side of the Force, the story meting transcripts suggest that although can't see it, it should be the real villain of the story. In his training Luke discovers the roots of the evil Force. The danger, the jeopardy is that Luke will become Vader, will be taken over. He has to fight the bad side and learn to work with the good side. Lucas felt that at one point during the training, Ben should explain to Luke that he should use his powers with moderation. If he uses too much of the Force, it will start to use him. For example, to lift objects Luke has to use the bad side of the Force, so if he overuses this power, the dark side will start taking him over as it did with Vader. When Luke fights, he has to use the dark side, but he is also using the good side for protection. In this episode Luke should embody the classic tale of the ugly duckling who becomes a hero, and by the end of the film Luke should have become Ben. - Annotated Screenplays


    It's how one uses the dark side that makes a difference. It's always a constant struggle for a Jedi.
  16. OnlyOneKenobi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 2002
    star 3
    Using the Dark Side isn't just a trick or power one could use at will and then turn off again. The sith have a way of living, they don't consider themselves to be evil, but are somewhat animalistic in their beliefs, which oppose the Jedi philosophy completely. The Dark Side can be used only when you twist the Force to your will, using your anger and hatred making it serve you, instead of the symbiotic relationship the Jedi have with the Force. The Jedi follow the will of the force, as well as use it for their purposes, but the sith twist and bend it to their will. The Dark side is basically a freak of nature, and this is possibly why Dark Side user's bodies are ravaged so badly by it after using it for so long.
  17. StormtrooperJay Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2004
    star 1
    Like Master Yoda said, "...once you start down the Dark path, forever will it control your destiny..." The Jedi are essentially blinded? by the Light side of the force. If it is the will of the force that I lose this battle with this Sith or whoever, then so be it.


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