PT Why fight Grievous with lightsabers?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Jesse Booth, Aug 5, 2014.

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  1. Jesse Booth Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2014
    star 1
    He isn't force sensitive, so he would be completely defenseless against force attacks. It'd be much easier to crush his rib cage in or sling him over a cliff than to fight him with a lightsaber. Any theories on why the Jedi didn't think of this?
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  2. Deltron3030 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2014
    star 1
    It really bugs me to see force muggles using light sabers. We tolerated Han on Hoth, it was life and death, but still I think we all imagined (even 2/3 of the way through the prequels) that you HAD to be a Jedi to use a light saber. Having a useless cyborg bad guy wielding light sabers seems like a breech of protocol. It does bug me a lot.

    But that's not the topic. The topic is Obi-Wan fighting Grievous with light sabers. Well, that's what Jedi do. I suppose the most efficient weapon would be an EMP or force lightning to short out his body.

    I suppose with the Force it would be an efficient means to fight anybody by messing with their internal organs -- basically the road which Force Choke pioneered. I guess you could stop someone's heart or maybe using the Mind Trick they could trick autonomic brain functions to cause a heart attack, etc.
    Last edited by Deltron3030, Aug 6, 2014
  3. Dartht Punk Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 17, 2014
    star 1
    Grievous with lightsabers is one of the mistakes of the prequels. For a start, it makes the Jedi less unique, and lightsabers less special - and for what? The sake of one more lightsaber duel in a film with five of them?

    Secondly, when Grievous is approaching Obi-Wan with four blades, spinning around cutting through the ground, it's ridiculous that Obi-Wan could fight back. FOUR blades. All Grievous has to do is hit him with two at once, or three, and Obi-Wan can't defend himself.
  4. SlashMan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2012
    star 4
    To a Jedi, I'd imagine it was quite the insult to see a cyborg using the weapon of the Jedi. The fact that Obi-Wan probably knew those fallen comrades only compounds that. Trained by Dooku or not, using lightsabers seemed like more like a psychological edge as opposed to a strategic one, since it was seen how easily Obi-Wan overwhelmed him with the Force. Still, I liked seeing his mechanical handling of the lightsabers; the saber spin was awesome. Before this, I'd never imagined a lightsaber being (mis)used in this way.

    Anyways, to answer the question; Obi-Wan only needed to distract him. After the clones arrived, he had no use for him (he just Force pushed him into the ceiling). The rest of the fight centered around making Obi-Wan a more even match for Grievous; he loses his lightsaber and ends up hanging over a cliff.

    We see from Revenge of the Sith that a skilled Jedi can actually take Grievous on easily when it comes to Force combat. But his unorthodox technique seems to give him an edge against those ill-prepared. The fatigued Jedi in Clone Wars were overwhelmed by him (meanwhile, Mace used the Force to make short work of him like Obi-Wan). I think The Clone Wars afterwards make Grievous seem more capable in the countless times he's stood his ground against a seasoned Jedi.
  5. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 10

    Mace did crush his chest during the kidnapping of Palpatine and Obi-wan does a Force push on Grievous. However, he was well designed to take such a beating which is why it was futile. As to his using their Lightsabers, it was intended as an insult to the Jedi. A way to try and demoralize them. Anyone can use Lightsaber, but only someone strong with the Force can use it the way the Jedi and the Sith have.
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  6. Sarge Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 1998
    star 4
    "A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack."

    The PT was awfully lax about enforcing that rule, but I'm sure Jedi can sense the wrongness of killing with direct application of something that "life creates it, and makes it grow."
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  7. Jesse Booth Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2014
    star 1

    However, by not using the force to kill Grievous, the Jedi allowed millions more died over the years. I think that using the force to kill someone in this kind of situation is fairly excusable.
    Last edited by Jesse Booth, Aug 6, 2014
  8. VadersLaMent Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 9
    Well, Obi Wan did pretty dammned good with the lightsabers considering he totally beat GG in the short lightsaber duel they had. Then he did use the Force causing him to run off.

    I would add that the Force is not an unlimited resource, or perhaps access to it is not unlimited.
  9. lovelikewinter Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2014
    star 4
    Hondo found that Slave 1's cannons were effective. Too bad he didn't finish the job then and there.
  10. Jesse Booth Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2014
    star 1
    I imagine it would've been easy for a Jedi to troll Grievous.

    G.G.: "Ahh, Master Booth. I have been expecting you."

    J.B.: "Rrrrrrrrrreally? I'm so surprised! If I had known, I wouldn't have bothered with the dramatic entrance. Would've saved you a lot of droids too."

    G.G.: "You must know that you will not be leaving here in one piece."

    J.B.: "Well that would be intimidating if- well, if you were even slightly intimidating!"

    G.G.: "Are you mocking me?!?!"

    J.B.: "I don't know. Am I?" (General Grievous attacks in a fit of rage at this point)

    J.B.: "Force! LOL!" (Jedi Master Booth pins Grievous to the wall with the force)

    G.G.: "Damned Jedi scum! (Grievous pulls out is blaster and starts firing at Jesse)

    J.B.: "Lightsaber! LOL! (Jesse reflects Grievous' bolts away from him using his lightsaber)
    Last edited by Jesse Booth, Aug 6, 2014
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  11. thejeditraitor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 19, 2003
    star 6
    anyone can use a saber. gg was great. he showed a callous disregard for the jedi and liked using their own weapons against them.
  12. deadly jp Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2014
    star 1
    I think only jedi's that wield blue light sabers who trained as jedi guardians would face grievous using their light sabers rather than the force.
  13. MOC Yak Face Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2004
    star 4
    Personally I like the idea that not everyone can use a lightsabre effectively, let alone several at a time. It's a pity Kenobi didn't just pull a pistol and shoot Grievous in the heart at some earlier stage. Preferably before he ever appeared on screen.
  14. Alexrd Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    Hence why Grievous is unique.
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  15. MOC Yak Face Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2004
    star 4
    Like an Ewok who shoots force lightning! :p
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  16. Darth Eddie Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2013
    star 4
    TCW shows the most effective way to deal with Grievous is actually without lightsabers. The clones used cable guns on him effectively a few times, and of course the gungans took him down with spears and elecro-balls.
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  17. Crystalia Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2013
    star 4
    Personally I like the idea that not everyone can use a lightsabre effectively, let alone several at a time. It's a pity Kenobi didn't just pull a pistol and shoot Grievous in the heart at some earlier stage. Preferably before he ever appeared on screen.
    ----------

    you're quickly becoming one my favourite people here


    to answer the original question:

    he makes a great action figure, "lightsabers sold separately" etc etc.
  18. Kenneth Morgan Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 27, 1999
    star 4
    While it's accepted that a lightsaber is the signature weapon of the Jedi, I don't think it's ever suggested that only Jedi use them. If I remember correctly, the original ANH novelization says (when Ben first gives Luke Ani's 'saber) that it just takes someone of superior ability to use one, not necessarily that only the highly Force-sensitive can. (For fans of the Marvel comics, see the Baron Tagge stories.)

    As for fighting Grevious, yes, you could just use a pure Force attack, assuming you have enough time to clear your mind and focus while he's coming at you like a cyborg buzzsaw. And, if you miss the first time, you may not get a second chance.

    If you don't go with 'sabers, better to nuke him from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
    Last edited by Kenneth Morgan, Aug 7, 2014
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  19. Dartht Punk Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 17, 2014
    star 1
    It was until the prequels. Only Luke, Obi-Wan and former Jedi Vader used them, and the Emperor described it as a, 'Jedi weapon'.

    Then when the prequels came along, Lucas needed lightsaber duels so the Sith use them as well.
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  20. solo77 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2002
    star 5
    Grievous was a terrible & unneeded addition to ROTS
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  21. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 8
    In concept art for ANH, we see stormtroopers using them.

    And in the novel, Ben says:

    "At one time they were widely used. Still are, in certain galactic quarters."

    He also goes on to say:

    "This was the formal weapon of a Jedi Knight. Not as clumsy or random as a blaster. More skill than simple sight was required for its use. An elegant weapon. It was a symbol as well. Anyone can use a blaster or a fusioncutter—but to use a lightsaber well was a mark of someone a cut above the ordinary."
  22. rumsmuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2000
    star 7
    I don't have a problem with non force users using lightsabers, since it's just a high tech sword. I would have a problem though, if a non force user started deflecting blaster fire like its easy.
  23. Seagoat PT Section Sentinel and Trivia Host

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    Jan 25, 2013
    star 4
    I'm not sure why everyone tries to apply that philosophy to the PT when

    1. Yoda had a revelation during the duel with Palpatine that all of his philosophies were wrong, and so he changed them to give Luke the advice we hear in the OT based on what he learned from his mistakes

    2. Luke "uses the Force for attack" several times throughout the OT in pretty much the same manner as people do in the PT
  24. Dartht Punk Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 17, 2014
    star 1
    The Clone Wars (and RotJ to a lesser extent) establishes that you need to use the Force to even put a lightsaber together in the first place.

    They are Jedi weapons. Anakin realizes Gui-Gon is a Jedi by his laser sword.
    Last edited by Dartht Punk, Aug 8, 2014
  25. Crystalia Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2013
    star 4
    I'm not sure why everyone tries to apply that philosophy to the PT

    probably because Mace says the line "we're keepers of the peace, not soldiers"

    . Luke "uses the Force for attack" several times throughout the OT in pretty much the same manner as people do in the PT

    totally disagree with this statement, Luke uses his lightsaber just before he is about to be thrown in the sarlaac pit, after telling Jabba to surrender more than twice. The PT Jedi would have been straight in there with lightsabers when they reached Jabba's palace as evidence every time a lightsaber is activated in the PT Which, (imo) was more times than necessary.
    Last edited by Crystalia, Aug 8, 2014
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