WHY GEORGE WHY?

I believe that CG is cheaper when you have to use it a lot. For example, it wouldn't make too much sense to have a unique CG guy walking in the background, as you only see him for a few seconds. However, characters such as Yoda who appear for minutes at a time are cheaper to do with CG than with a puppet. A big part of CG is having to make the model in the computer. After that is done, you just have to move the model around, and play with lighting, etc. This is too much work to do for a character who just appears for a few seconds.

 

Actually, I've changed my mind. CG is terrible. We need to go back to stop-motion. Like those wonderfully realistic dinosaurs in King Kong. And all monsters in Star Wars need to either be Muppets or men in suits. And Yoda's fight scene should be done by just flinging the puppet at Christopher Lee. As for the arena? Simple. They should have built a full-scale version of it. And clones can be created by getting thousands of men that walk the same way and have the same height and build, and costuming all of them. The Geonosians? A couple thousand extras in suits. You know what? That would make the movie so much better!

 

all i can say is that the ones who done the CGI for scooby doo were DRUNK!

 

I think if anything, this thread proves that some folks have gotten to old for Star Wars.

 

Hey George, Wake up and listen to this guy!

GREAT COMMENTS!

 

I'm sorry, NORTHSTAR, but George can't hear you. The special fanboy-proof invisible bubble he purchased with the money he made off of the inflatible Darth Maul chairs prevents him from hearing fanboy suggestions.

 

CGI Yoda was not the problem of AotC. Aliens liek him are Jar-Jar are supposed to be CGI. Even the CGI super battle droids looked good.

There's no need to use CGI people, no matter how much of a pain it is to feed, pay, organise & direct them, Lucas can afford it.

My only problem with the PT movies is too much CGI use. It's being used perfectly for backrounds, weird aliens, and space battles. I hope Lucas doesn't use CGI clonetroopers, Vader, or Jedi in ep3!

 

The CG Yoda looks far more realistic than the Yoda puppet on Luke's back in ESB. In that scene, Yoda looks like a plastic mask that kids play with. Therefore, that particular shot in ESB must be replaced.

It was far more cost efficient to do Yoda completely in CG than to have a CG/puppet mix. This is because the CG model was going to be made anyway for the fight scene, and that model would have to have the same amount of detail. If a puppet was also used, a puppet would have had to be added to the production cost. As well, extra time will be spent on matching the CG and the puppet version within the same movie.

Using rubber masks for some background characters is more efficient than using CG because in many cases, the costumes aren't detailed and can be made quickly. On the other hand, a CG version will require the same detail as a CG main character such as Watto or Yoda.

Using CG for humans sometimes is more efficient than having CG humans all the time or having live action all the time. This is because there are scenes when the humans fail to interact with CG creatures properly. It would take far more work to do it in live action (because the CG character will not be replaced, so you'd have to work around it with your real actors). On the other hand, using CG all the time for humans is just too difficult to do.

In conclusion, ILM and Lucasfilm used the most efficient solutions that were available to them. We are talking about professionals here who know what they are doing. Fans, however, aren't necessarily well-versed in film-making.

 

I think that the puppet and CG Yoda are both junk. Claymation all the way.

 

Claymation all the way.

LOL, this thread needed some humor.

 

I was against CGI Yoda to in the beginning. But after seeing AOTC and later re-watching TPM I can definitely say that CGI Yoda is better.

 

It is better, I just don't like the Yoda character anymore. I DID grow up from that kid. Now because of ILM's cg Yoda, I am supposed to believe that Yoda only pretends to hobble around on a cane, cause he really can jump, bounce, & fly when he feels like it. CGI made too much of a difference in Yoda's character. Just 24 years after AotC, Yoda is now too weak to bounce around for Luke. If Lucas wanted to show Yoda in his prime, he should have filmed a flashback for when Yoda was 400 yrs old.

Count Dooku should have fought Plo-Koon, KAM, & Mace Windu instead of old man Yoda.

 

This is Star Wars purism gone outta control.
The Yoda puppet had too many limitations.
I can't believe we're even debating this.

edit: DarthGoggles, the Yoda puppet is just as 'real' as the CGI Yoda.

 

It is better, I just don't like the Yoda character anymore. I DID grow up from that kid. Now because of ILM's cg Yoda, I am supposed to believe that Yoda only pretends to hobble around on a cane, cause he really can jump, bounce, & fly when he feels like it. CGI made too much of a difference in Yoda's character. Just 24 years after AotC, Yoda is now too weak to bounce around for Luke. If Lucas wanted to show Yoda in his prime, he should have filmed a flashback for when Yoda was 400 yrs old.

"The Force is my ally, and a powerful ally it is." Yoda doesn't pretend to hobble. He really does need the cane. However, using the Force someone can accomplish feats that would normally be impossible. Force jump is a prime example of this - using the Force, you can get enough strength to jump really high. In the same vein, Yoda can use the Force to become, well, what you saw in AOTC. However, he doesn't do this all the time. Jedi don't use the Force frivolously; because of that, Yoda doesn't always rely on the Force to run around. He sticks to a cane. However, when he needs to defend his friends, and when facing a powerful enemy, he is free to use it. This is the same reason why Jedi don't just summon anything (for example, a drink) with the Force; it's not proper use of their abilities.

 

...And all monsters in Star Wars need to either be Muppets or men in suits...

LOL, Lord Hydronium! Yeah I can just see SW looking like an old Godzilla movie!!

Personally, having grown up with these movies (I think my user name betrays my age enough), I LOVED the puppet Yoda! I was disappointed in the Yoda from TPM - not because he was puppet or CGI, but because he looked too different and lacked the personality we love. I thought he was much more like the original Yoda in AOTC. I admit I missed the puppet a little, but the movie would have sucked without the mobility of the CGI Yoda. He really began to recapture the Yoda we love (maybe they were just still experimenting in TPM and ironed out the kinks by AOTC). For Ep3, I think the CGI will still be necessary. Just for sentimental reasons, though, I'd love to see the return of the original (or duplicate, as it may be falling apart, as mentioned) puppet just for like a few minutes at the end of the movie...I can dream, can't I!?

 

The puppet looks as much like a puppet as anything, but at times the CG looks real.
I watched ESB last night (I'm showing all the OT to my friend who never saw them) and I noticed how incredibly puppety Yoda looked.
Back then it was very well done. But now. . .
He's bouncing around like a muppet and his movement is very muppety. His face is extremely limited (thouhg fantastic for a puppet), and his movement is limited.
There was just so many subtle things that CG Yoda could do that puppet couldn't.
When he stroked his chin during his meeting with Obi-Wan.

Expression and emotion given in the following lines couldn't have been done with a puppet. Or not nearly as well. They would've had to stikc with the standard Yoda expressions and in these lines, his expressions hold an extra oomf.
'Even the older, more experienced Jedi' Hell, getting the puppet to float in the chair would've been a task and a half.
'Our judgement, she must respect.'
''Lies, deciet, creating mistrust are his ways now!'
'Seeing you alive, brings warm feelings to my heart.'
The look he throws at Palpatine.
'Fought well you have. . . my old padawan.'

I wouldn't mind if the pulled an ET with puppet Yoda for the Archival Editions. Keep the puppet, but enhance it in parts. Everything that looks good with the puppet, would look ten times more emotional with a CG boost. And Frank Oz himself says he doesn't mind at all. I'm getting the impression that he loves the character more than the puppet. And Frank will always be Yoda even if they use a genetically altered toad to play the part.

 

Yoda in AOTC has more mobility and is able to perform his amazing acrobatics because he no longer has Frank Oz's hand shoved up his butt. I'd be jumping for joy and doing somersaults too.

 

Anyway, the only reason anyone cares is because we grew up on the puppet. I don't see anyone screaming to have Watto be done with puppetry

A Watto puppet would be kinda fun...

 

That_Wascally_Droid your last post "brings warm feelings to my heart".

I too would not mind some minor CG work applied to OT Yoda if it would help it smooth the character into a familiar look for the entire saga. Hell, they NEED to replace ANH:SE Jabba with the CG one from TPM and fix some other creatures too! [cough]Rancor-lines[/cough]


CGI aliens do provide better 'performances' with their expressions. Watto's eyes in the scene where Anakin returns to Tatooine are fantastic. Yoda's smile when he says "Much to learn, you still have" as he stops the flow of Force lightening from Dooku is for me by far the best facial expression he has ever done... I love the way Yoda has developed as a character.

I for one never wanted Yoda to be just an aged alien who had "moved beyond the need for weapons". I have always wanted Yoda to be a great warrior when needed.
Lord_Hydronium, you have clearly explained Yoda's 'dexterity-difference' in combat very well... The Force cannot be used continuously by a Jedi in much the same way I cannot sprint at full speed everywhere I go. This is true for the Jedi in that using the Force consumes enrgy. This can be used to explain why, in TPM, Obi-Wan could not use the Force to catch up with the dueling Qui-Gon and Maul. Obi-Wan was quite simply exhausted from battle and as such unable to draw on the Force as effectively. After all it did take him a few seconds to summon the strength to jump back up to the same walkway...

Anyway, back to the topic at hand, CGI Yoda is a good thing. Beauty is only skin deep, whether the skin be flesh, rubber or pixels! For me When I watch Yoda's scenes in AOTC I just see and hear Yoda. I doesn't even occur to me to question the methods of his creation anymore. Yoda is more alive for me than he has ever been before. I hope some of you who dislike AOTC/CG Yoda can see my point of view. I wish you could enjoy his character development as I have...

 

"arabiansanchez- no way!!! The people who grew up on the original trilogy would mostly disagree there (plus i notice you are only 16 so wouldnt know what it was like to grow up during the OT period"

No offence taken TK421.
For the record, however, I did grow up on StarWars. Maybe not in the 'OT period' but ROTJ was the first film I ever saw. It's my childhood too and IMO it would be better if they re-did Yoda ATLEAST in ESB.

 

What i'm getting at is that you were born about 84 or 83? No chance of seeing ROTJ in the cinema as it came out in 83. The point i make is that guys like me LIVED through the OT and seen them in order, so it would be kinda like changing our experiences and memories. At 16 or 17 all i'm saying is no matter what, you will not be able to experience the OT as us older ones did. Its hard to explain but i guess us older ones can get a bit protective of the OT- as it was. I guess ya had to be there.

 

boo-hoo, a single tear rolls down my cheek.

 

I happen to be an "old fossil" who saw all three OT films in the theater when they were originally relesed. Like others on this board, I literally grew up with the OT films.

When I first heard that Yoda was going to be CG, I was skeptical that this would work. However, I thought the CG Yoda looked great and faihtfully replicated the movements of the puppet Yoda. The only part of the CG Yoda that did not look quite right was the "texture" of his ears during the meeting in Palpatine's office. Otherwise I could not tell the difference between the CG and the puppet versions of Yoda.

I do not understand why so many fans are upset over the CG Yoda. As long as I can't tell, I do not care.

 

I grew up on the OT and never had a problem with Lucas or anyone, fixing the special effects with the new technology available. I may be in a minority, but I've never had a problem with it.

 

*Sigh*

I give up.

Just because you watched a few films in a cinema does not mean you have a whole different perspective on things.

For the record I saw them in the cinema when I was 5 on one of those budget classic days.

So besides the ROTJ blip my experience (in watching the films) has been no different to you oldies.

I still say Yoda should be given a touch up.

Like it or not Yoda is way better than he was. I'm watching ESB right now and it aint at all pretty.

Granted he started off dodgey in AOTC (which confuses me) but by the latter half of the film those ILMers had hit the nail on the head.

Pure magic (well ok, Industrial Magic).

"The point i make is that guys like me LIVED through the OT and seen them in order, so it would be kinda like changing our experiences and memories."

Are you implying that some of my earliest memories are not as relevant as yours?
I'm afraid you are suffering from the demon they call nostalgia.
Down with puppets!