Why give Anakin a Dark Outfit in AOTC?

Luke disobeys his Master and goes off to save his friends. Anakin does the same thing with his mother in AOTC. It may not be evil but it shows Luke had some of the same traits as his father.

The potential was there, but Luke stopped himself from killing Vader.

 

Luke disobeys his Master and goes off to save his friends. Anakin does the same thing with his mother in AOTC. It may not be evil but it shows Luke had some of the same traits as his father.

Luke didn't follow up the near deaths of his friends by murdering every imperial officer in the vicinity. And when Vader tempted him with the dark side, he turned away from it and risked death rather than succumbing.


The potential was there, but Luke stopped himself from killing Vader.

Anakin wouldn't have stopped. That's the big difference.

BTW, who said there wasn't reasons built for Luke turning to the dark side? I don't know what set of movies you're watching, but as far as I can recall, the boy went through a hell nearly as deep as Anakin's. Let's see...

-The empire murdered his family.
-Vader killed his mentor.
-He's introduced to an empire that destroyed his (unknown then) sister's planet, which then tried to destroy the rebellion.
-His best friend from Tatooine died during the battle of Yavin.
-Luke saw that he had darkness in him on Dagobah.
-Vader captured and tortured Luke's friends.
-Vader gave Han away to a bounty hunter.
-Vader battled and baited Luke during the battle to try and get him to touch the dark side.
-The emperor forced Luke to sit by and watch as he nearly destroyed their Rebellion.
-Vader wanted to use his sister for evil.

Um...I'd say there's plenty built up for Luke's strugge in ROTJ. His dark side turned didn't come out of the blue. The big difference is that Luke manages to restrain himself rather than accede to evil, like Anakin.

 

I think you guys are forgetting that we still have all of pretty much the first half of Reveng of the Sith to show how much Anakin and Obi-Wan's friendship has progressed. Don't worry; it'll all work out.

 

Luke didn't follow up the near deaths of his friends by murdering every imperial officer in the vicinity. And when Vader tempted him with the dark side, he turned away from it and risked death rather than succumbing.



Anakin's mom was dead. What would Luke do if Han and Co. had been murdered?

 

Leia was being kidnapped by Imperials. For all he knew, Han *was* dead. Yet he still forged on.

Luke's surrogate parents were killed. He handled that pretty darn well.

Even when it came down the wire, when Luke thought Vader was suggesting a fate worse than death for his sister, he still managed to hold back at the last possible moment.

 

"Luke didn't follow up the near deaths of his friends by murdering every imperial officer in the vicinity. And when Vader tempted him with the dark side, he turned away from it and risked death rather than succumbing."

which is part of why I feel the tusken slaughter and the whole shmi arc is grossly unnessary. I don't need a "reason" for anakin to turn to the darkside. I can believe in it just based on the magic of the darkside, the intelligence of palpatine and one moment of weakness with anakin

"Exactly. And why does this happen? Because Luke is a better person than Anakin. The story is the same, the characters are not."

No because Luke: a)saw his father as an example of what he was one moment away from becoming.

b)he was trained by Yoda with the help of an humbled obi-wan, where as Anakin was trained only by an reckless and arrogant Obi-wan

if Luke and Anakin are so fundemantally different then the story is pointless, it just shows how if a bad man and a good man walk the same path the bad man will stay bad and the good man will stay good

its much more interesting to say that a good man can walk a path and turn bad, and that even the truest of heros (like Luke) could turn to evilest of villians (ie vader) in a moment of anger.

 

No because Luke: a)saw his father as an example of what he was one moment away from becoming.

b)he was trained by Yoda with the help of an humbled obi-wan, where as Anakin was trained only by an reckless and arrogant Obi-wan

Trained by Obi Wan? For about five minutes. Obi Wan was there to guide him, but Luke had to figure out most of this stuff on his own. Yoda gave Luke the same warnings as he did Anakin.

And certainly none of that dispels the fact that Anakin had problems from the beginning, and the fact that both Skywalkers went through psychologically painful events in both of their journeys to becoming a Jedi. I'm betting Anakin, in Luke's shoes, probably still would have turned.


if Luke and Anakin are so fundemantally different then the story is pointless, it just shows how if a bad man and a good man walk the same path the bad man will stay bad and the good man will stay good

I never said Luke and Anakin are fundamentally utterly different people. I said they have similar core personality traits, but simply are *not* the same person, and they are different where it matters most. Luke is ten times more emotionally stable than Anakin ever was. He grew up in a far more stable environment, and he's nowhere near as selfish as his father. His temper always takes a lot longer to ignite. These all work to Luke's advantage.

NOBODY is utterly doomed that they can't make the right choice. Nobody. Anakin didn't have to turn. There was nobody holding a gun to his head in AOTC and ROTS. There have been people in far worse situations who have come out on top. Obi Wan saw the man who was his father in everything but blood murdered right in front of him, and he didn't turn to the dark side. Leia lost the man she loved, and she didn't let it destroy her. Luke almost lost everyone he loved, and he managed to fight back when it really mattered. Anakin might be overwhelmed by his emotions, but there is always a choice, and he chooses wrongdoing. That is one of the key ideas in the sga.


its much more interesting to say that a good man can walk a path and turn bad, and that even the truest of heros (like Luke) could turn to evilest of villians (ie vader) in a moment of anger.

No, the PT is the story of a young man with deep flaws who still had the power to choose one way or another. Anakin had lot going against him, but he could have learned from it. He could've taken the better road. But he didn't. He succumbed to the dark side instead. Luke is a person who was similar to his father in many ways, but who is fundamentally more selfless and controlled than his father was and thus was able to resist the dark side.

 

I agree thats what the PT is, I just don't think its for the better of the saga.

 

I understand that you guys most likely don't know much about Revenge of the Sith, but I think you should reserve your judgments of Anakin until after you've seen the movie. I'm pretty confident that you'll feel that he was a good man, he was just a not so good adolescent. His fall really is tragic, and is not just for selfish reasons. The story will remain of how a good person became bad, not of how a not so bad person became a bad person.

 

what makes you think we don't know much? Most of us are 3SA regulars from the beginning, and all the info has been spilled for a long time now. Why is the assumption always that we don't know anything about ep3?

 

No, the PT is the story of a young man with deep flaws... Luke is a person who was similar to his father in many ways, but who is fundamentally more selfless and controlled than his father was and thus was able to resist the dark side.

Were these 'deep flaws' there from the beginning? What were these 'deep flaws'? Was the difference between Luke and Anakin a matter of environment? Luke lived isolated on a farm and probably didn't have a lot of opportunity to meet other people. Anakin, on the other hand lived in cramped slaves quarters in a town that was a 'wretched hive of scum and villainy.'

Could it have been a matter of influence? We see at the end of TPM that Palpatine was going to take a great interest in Anakins 'career.' How much of an influence did Palps have on Anakin between TPM & AOTC? We have Anakin speaking of Palpatines 'guidance' in AOTC. While OB1 tried to humble Anakins big ego, Palpatine stoked Anakins ego to his advantage while at the same time instilling ideas about the Jedi holding him back.

Or could it have been both environment and influence?
Could it be possible that if Anakin's life had been more like Lukes:
1) having a better father figure than Watoo as well as a mother figure
2) not having to live in a rough neighborhood and always having to defend himself
3) not having the Dark Lord of the Sith as his other mentor for 13 years
he would have been less likely to turn?

And what about Luke, might he have been more likely to turn if:
1) he had been born a slave and lived in a wretched hive of scum and villainy
2) he had been mentored by Palpatine for 13 years and had seen his 'good' side?
3) his Aunt Beru had died in his arms after having been tortured by Tuskens, or he kills any Stormtroopers that might have still been about his homestead

To sum up, yes, there were similarities between Luke and Anakin, but there were also some major differences. Could these differences have made a difference in the outcomes of these characters?

 

Luke's turn would have been shocking, but not because he was a true hero. It's because it would be impossible, considering the circumstances. Luke had been so well prepared for the confrontation in ROTJ that turning to the dark side was no option for him. He had been taught to fear the dark side. That fear is what stopped him. Anakin never feared the dark side, because he hadn't lost his father because of it.
So considering that and all other circumstances, Anakin was bound to turn, whereas Luke was bound not to.
A kid won't see Anakin's turn coming, though, because he/she will be too busy admiring his coolness.

And no, I'm not kidding about Anakin and Obi-Wan not being prepared to kill eachother in AOTC. If you can honestly say that it would feel natural for you to see them pull out their lightsabers and start a duel against eachother in that movie, then there's no point in discussing this. Let's all go to bed and never come back here again.



It's been fun
/LM

 

"Luke had been so well prepared for the confrontation in ROTJ that turning to the dark side was no option for him."

Then where's the drama? Of course it was possible for him to turn. That's the threat. Will he succeed in redeeming his father or will he be turned too? Are you forgetting that moment when Vader says he'll turn Leia, and Luke goes berzerk? That was the moment where he very well could have turned. But after realizing that what happened to his father could happen to him, he took control of his anger and resisted the Dark Side.

On a not entirely serious side note, I've always seen Palpatine getting up, laughing and clapping as being what stopped Luke from going too far. If he had just shut up and watched then Luke would have killed Vader without being interrupted.

 

He stopped because he feared the dark side.
There's plenty of drama, because we in the audience do not know at that point that it's impossible for Luke to turn. At that point, his destiny is clear. He has chosen to try to bring his father back to the good side and therefore, he will stay good no matter what.



Luke is the hero
/LM

 

He stopped because he looked at his father's mechanical hand, then at his own. He saw himself in his father, and realized that if he didn't control his anger he would become twisted and evil like him. He would have turned. That was always a dangerous possibility for him. But he overcame it. I mean, come on. You might as well argue that he was never going to turn because that's the way it is in the script.

 

I agree. He saw Vader's artificial hand and realised that he was becoming like him. If he had not feared the dark side, he would still have killed him.



Fear is the key
/LM

 

Well we don't know Luke would have done at the end of Empire. You say he didn't murder every imperial officer, but he didn't have the chance. He lost his lightsaber duel, and then jumped down a shaft. Unless he saw a few Imperial officers while he was falling or hanging on the vane, then it is hard to know what he would have done.

 

He saw Vader's artificial hand and realised that he was becoming like him. If he had not feared the dark side, he would still have killed him.

I believe the reason why Luke didn't kill his father at that moment while at his mercy is because Vader had Luke at his mercy and spared him, which then opened Luke's mind to try to redeem him.


"I know there is good in you. The Emperor hasn't driven it from you fully. That is why you couldn't destroy me."
--Luke Skywalker to Darth Vader in ROTJ

 

"And no, I'm not kidding about Anakin and Obi-Wan not being prepared to kill eachother in AOTC. If you can honestly say that it would feel natural for you to see them pull out their lightsabers and start a duel against eachother in that movie, then there's no point in discussing this."

in the context of the movie, it is not hard to see that a huge and likely violent (it is starwars afterall) confrontations is not far away.

 

"On a not entirely serious side note, I've always seen Palpatine getting up, laughing and clapping as being what stopped Luke from going too far. If he had just shut up and watched then Luke would have killed Vader without being interrupted."

LOL agreed

 

I disagree that they didn't show enough of Anakin as a good guy. Sure most kids are generally good when they are eight, but Anakin was REALLY nice. I mean he risked a lot to help Qui Gon and company and was always there to help them out. I mean c'mon, he let total strangers say in his house! And there really isn't much time to fit all of that in the PT without drastically changing it.

Though as it stands, I still wish that Anakin's progression was subtle.

 

thats the thing, its not gradual at all

in tpm he is 0% evil, ep2 opens and he's like 40-60% evil depending who you ask, and from what I can tell he is like 95% evil when ep3 starts

 

I'm gonna try to somehow defend the way lucas made anakin in AOTC. and heres what i thought of after reading all these post.

Anakin in TPM is a very good kid because first of all kids are ussually not evil when they are small. (annoying yes, evil not as much).

Anakin was really nice because he lived with his mother who loved him and he loved her. He could express himself anyway he wanted.

Then comes along qui gon. Qui gon was like a father figure to him. A father figure anakin never had. Qui gon has alot of faith in anakin and defend him against the jedi council. And anakin saw that and respected qui gon. On the other hand anakin knew obi wan wasn't all in favor of training him.

"the boy is dangerious, they all sense it why can't you"

but anakin leaves his mother and his master qui gon dies. So these 2 people, who are his mother and father figure die. Now anakin lives his life with obi wan, who doesn't have that much faith in anakin. The only reason obi wan trains him is because qui gon told him too.

So this sweet little anakin grows up in AOTC and is alittle colder now. He doesn't have that warm love from his mother anymore, or that father like love from qui gon.

But we see anakin is always trying to get close to people, but its not the jedi way. THis frustrates anakin. He wants to go see his mother cuz he feels shes in pain, but obi wan wont let him. He wants to get close to padme, but the jedi dont allow that.


Now lets look at luke. Luke has always had a father and mother type people in his lfe. He grew up with a family.

When anakin had a family (shmi, and somewhat qui gon, but only qui gon for a very short while) anakin was nice and sweet, and wanted to help others.

just like luke. Luke grew up with a family and was nice and sweet and wanted to help others.

so i think basically why anakin is so different in AOTC is because anakin is not ALLOWED to express himself. hes not allowed to go see his mother or love padme, and this frustrates him. not only is he not allowed to get close to ppl, but hes not allowed (from anakins point of view) to expand in his skills as a jedi

"its all obi wans fault. he's holding me back"

so maybe those are a few reason why anakin and luke are so different when they are about the same age.

the lack of being allowed close friendship.

Edit: And as we can see in the old movies. Vader no longer is attached to anyone. He doesn't love anyone anymore. He doesn't 'care' for the emperor. He serves him.

While we see Luke is attached to alot of people. Luke couldn't let leia or han get tortured by Vader. He cared to much for them. And Luke even cared for Vader at the end of ROTJ. Luke kept trying to help Vader see that there is some good left in him.

And we see at the end what finaly saved Vader, and what wound up destroying the emperor was Vaders attachment to Luke.

At that point Vader no longer cared about serving the emperor, no longer cared about the empire, his duties or the sith ways. He just wanted to take care of his son who was in danger. He wanted to protect his son.

And i believe the fact the Jedi didn't allow anakin or any other Jedi to form attachments was a big downfall for them.

 

The black/leather outfit was foreshadowing his eventual turn to Vader.

It was also Lucas's take on James Dean in space.

Sans the death sticks of course.

 

well said JMaster, well said.