Saga Why go into hiding??

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Aaronaman, Oct 18, 2013.

Moderators: Darth_Nub, Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn
  1. Aaronaman Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2013
    star 4
    At the end of ROTS Yoda and Obi-Wan decide its better to go into hiding instead of facing Sidious again but why???

    Yoda had faced Sidious and actually looked very strong against him and Obi-Wan defeated Anakin and could have ended his life if he'd wanted to....I've always wondered why Obi-Wan just left Anakin without delivering a fatal blow.

    Surely the faster they faced Sidious the better because he was only going to get stronger with time.
  2. Vialco Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2007
    star 4
    Yeah, I always wondered that too.

    But Yoda lost against Sidious. He snuck into the Senate, subdued the Red Guards and attacked Sidious. And he was quickly overwhelmed, and ended up having to run for his life from the clones, he even lost his lightsaber.

    Yoda has no reason to think that a rematch would go any better. In fact, it would probably end in Yoda's death. Sidous already beat him once, and the addition of Obi-Wan would make little difference.

    Lucas has said "You have to be either Yoda or Mace to compete with the Emperor."

    Obi-Wan is neither and would be killed quickly, just like Mace's posse was. Dooku proved this, when he easily Force-choked Obi-Wan on the Invisible Hand and threw him into a wall.

    The simple fact is that Yoda went to confront Palpatine once, with the intention of killing him, and failed miserably. He had to flee the battle, beaten and defeated. There's no reason to believe a rematch would end any differently.
  3. Alienware Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 19, 2013
    star 1
    Concerning Obi-Wan not delivering a fatal blow: I guess he just couldn't stand being there anymore and so he just left Anakin to die. Yes, he could have killed him off, but he simply decided not to.

    Yoda & Obi-Wan realized that they couldn't defeat the Sith just by killing them because the battle was lost way before the actual duels took place in RotS. The Jedi became weak, while the Sith became more powerful.

    That's the basics of it, I'm sure someone else will be able to explain it much better than me.


    About Yoda vs. Sidious: Yoda didn't win, but I wouldn't say he lost. He was actually gaining the upper hand when they were in force-lightning lock (is it lock?). You can see that Sidious is beginning to lose it and Yoda deflecting the ball of lightning back to him when the whole thing just explodes and hurls them each in their own direction. Unfortunately, Yoda was more on the edge of the senate pod they were standing on, plus he had a smaller weight, which meant that he was pushed back more violently. Sidious was much heavier, so he managed to hold on to the pod. At this point, Yoda was back at the beginning, and on much lower ground for that matter. Anyone in that situation would probably consider it a smart move to get the **** outta there. Sidious probably wouldn't be waiting for him, but would at this point call his security guards, which does happen in the movie.

    The duel was simply over in a stalemate and there was no way it could have continued. Yoda fled away to realize that he had failed way before the actual duel.

    They were both lucky to have survived.
    Last edited by A Chorus of Disapproval, Oct 18, 2013
  4. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    I doubt that Sidious would get "more powerful", it seemed that he was at the peak of his powers when he faced Yoda, as he got older and more complacent I don't seem him becoming more powerful. But Yoda was also way past his prime and only getting older. I think Obi-Wan would have had a good chance to keep learning from Yoda and become strong enough in the Force to compete with Sidious, but honestly it seemed they were both disillusioned by the destruction of the Jedi and the seduction of Anakin (no rhyme intended) and just didn't want to try anymore.
  5. SlashMan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2012
    star 3
    I always thought that now that Palpatine was Emperor, and Jedi were fugitives, Yoda would never have a chance to confront Palpatine again. He would have much more security, and Yoda would no longer have the element of surprise. Even if he did fight Sidious again, the chances still weren't necessarily in his favor. Yoda saw the best use of his efforts was staying alive to train Luke.
  6. Aaronaman Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2013
    star 4
    But would Yoda have ever trained Luke if Ben didn't die? If his main reason to go into hiding why did he not approach Luke when he was a lot younger, if the droids didn't turn up on Luke's front door how much longer would Ben have waited to start to train him??

    Lot's of questions regarding the Jedi's lack of foresight in training Luke with very few answers.
  7. Yondo Kuromu Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2013
    star 1
    They believed in the prophesy, only the Chosen One could bring balance to the Force, which is Anakin. Yoda learned his lession after knowing Mace failed and he failed. If either Obi Wan and or Yoda confronts the Emperor again, they will fail without the Chosen One at their side. That's why they need Luke to bring Vader back to the light side and then he is the destined one to take out the Emperor.
  8. Aaronaman Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2013
    star 4
    Obi-Wan wasn't sure that Anakin was the chosen one when Qui-Gon found him and I'm sure Mace had his doubts as well....as for Yoda, even he said the prophesy could have been wrong.

    If there's so much doubt over Anakin even being the chosen one amongst the Jedi why would they wait for his son???
  9. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    Because the Force was unusually strong with the Skywalkers.
    Mystery_Roach likes this.
  10. Aaronaman Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2013
    star 4
    Yes but it was more of the Dark Side of the Force.
  11. HevyDevy Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2011
    star 4
    Um I don't think Yoda and Obi-Wan believed Vader could come back from the dark side. I guess in-universe they believed either the prophecy had been misread or Anakin wasn't the chosen one after all. It seems clear that they are still training Luke for his potential to kill the Emperor. While Yoda has learnt from the Jedis' defeat and adapted his training by the time he trains Luke I think it is implied that Luke surpasses the Jedi of the past when he throws away his saber, defying Sidious. Despite Yoda teaching him "never for attack" I don't think this action, or Anakin's return to the light was particularly forseen.
    Mystery_Roach likes this.
  12. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    They go into hiding because of the children. It would be suicide to try and find any surviving Jedi and try to unite against the Sith and the Imperial Army. They need to make the children their priority, even though they are effectively leaving anyone else out to dry, in doing so.
    Mystery_Roach likes this.
  13. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Midichlorians aren't aligned. A high count can go either way. Yoda, for example, had a fairly high count.
  14. Aaronaman Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2013
    star 4
    That's all good but it takes a certain disposition to lean towards the Dark Side.....and the Skywalker's seem to be inclined to fall that way
  15. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    I don't see Luke that way.
  16. Aaronaman Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2013
    star 4
    Watching Anakin in the PT you can see he lacks patience and is always looking to the future.....didn't Yoda say that about someone in the OT?

    Also Anakin gave up his Jedi training because he wanted to stop Padme from dying just as Luke did when he left Dagobah to fly to Bespin to save his friends...there are a lot of similarities between Father and Son and I feel Luke will always have the Dark side of the Force inside him.
  17. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    The ROTS novels tells why Obi-Wan didn't finish off Anakin.

    It also shows why Yoda was unable to defeat Sidious:

    Last edited by timmoishere, Oct 24, 2013
    Mystery_Roach and ILNP like this.
  18. Bob Octa Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 6, 2013
    star 1
    I don't even think Yoda and Obi-Wan had any real expectations for Anakin's twins, they just knew that they could one day be subverted to be the Emperor's apprentices because of their latent but powerful Force talent. Maybe Obi-Wan had faith--maybe he saw something in him--that Luke could probably one day challenge Vader or The Emperor, but I think the basic gist of the two Jedis going into hiding was that they realized that it was all too late for physical conflict now, the new era of Sith reign was already upon them. Instead they would bide their time and put their trust in the will of the Force rather than directly fighting fate.

    Remember that Yoda was very skeptical of training Luke (this attitude goes back through all the drafts of ESB). It was not any foregone conclusion that Anakin's kids would necessarily play a proactive role in the galaxy or were destined to destroy the Empire. Also remember that there was a Rebel Alliance way before there was any Luke Skywalker heralding the return of the Jedi. The non-Force-using galaxy was not exactly helpless and they had a responsibility to take their own fate into their hands (which they did without the aid of any Jedi up to that point). I think the main "plan" was that Yoda and Obi-Wan would trust the Force to resolve the Sith's renewal, and the turmoil in the galaxy, in its own time and its own way, even if it happened without them. And the Force handling its own problems is exactly what happened when it brought Leia and Luke right to Obi-Wan's doorstep, so to speak. That was all the Force's doing, not Obi-Wan and Yoda dictating fate. A forced (no pun intended) rematch between Yoda and Emperor, and Obi-Wan and Vader would all have been about the Jedi's egos at that point.
  19. VanishingReality Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2013
    star 3
    Yoda had no way of knowing. It was a real gamble on his part to place his faith in Luke.
  20. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    As Yoda puts it when speaking of Luke: "Much anger in him. Like his father."

    Obi-Wan implies that he was the same when Yoda taught him though.
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Oct 27, 2013
  21. CommanderDrenn Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 19, 2013
    star 4
    My thoughts on this are that they needed to stay alive to protect and then teach Luke the ways of the Force
  22. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    But their intention was never for Luke to redeem Vader. They intended for Luke to kill him, and were quite disappointed when he refused.
    Darth_Articulate and Bob Octa like this.
  23. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9

    They didn't. Anakin fell because he was raised by his mother first, which resulted in his having developed an attachment to her. This and subsequent attachments to Obi-wan, Padme and Ahsoka would prove to be problematic. When he failed to save his mother, he couldn't be objective and made a critical mistake. He compounded that mistake by vowing to do whatever it took to protect his loved ones and by marrying Padme. He was not deposed to going rogue, he just made a poor choice. Luke had anger in him because he grew up without the discipline that comes with training in the Jedi Arts. Yoda had to break down his mind and build it back up, in the style of a Jedi Knight. Luke's anger came from his impatience, much like Anakin's did at that point. Later on, it was due to feeling powerless just like his father had. Where Luke succeeds is that he can see what happens when one loses control and thus loses himself to the darkness. Luke rejects the dark side because he was raised with compassion that was born out of his love for his father, a man he idealized for years before learning the truth. That compassion is what saves them both.
    Firmus Jagdon likes this.
  24. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4

    Sorry. Not buying this.

    Your explanation does not explain the Jedi's attachment to the Order and the mistakes its leading members made to ensure its survival. Anakin fell because of his attachments. But I don't believe that he would have been able to avoid becoming a Sith Lord if he had been raised by the Order alone. Luke was raised by his aunt and uncle. He didn't require spending all of his life within the confines of the Jedi Order. Whatever his faults, he managed to avoid giving into his negative qualities in the end.
  25. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Anakin's faults were based on his age, which was in between Obi-wan's when he was recruited and Luke's when he was recruited. Anakin was nine years old. He was wanting to go out and do good in the universe, but he was afraid to leave his mother behind, because he wouldn't be there to protect her. This fear is what drove Anakin to do what he did. When Obi-wan was taken, he had no attachments to his parents. He was raised by the Jedi in the Temple for the early part of his life and then paired up with Qui-gon, when the time came. By the time Qui-gon fell in battle, Obi-wan was able to let go of his feelings towards his mentor. He still loved him and would wish for his counsel, but he wasn't dependent on him anymore. He moved on with his life and concentrated on training Anakin. He didn't cripple himself with fear about failing the boy, much less that he couldn't protect him because he couldn't protect Qui-gon. Obi-wan accepted what was and what would be.

    Luke was raised by his family and was wanting to leave home to go out and do good. His doubts were centered around leaving his family behind, because they needed his help. He wasn't sure if he was up to the task. But with their deaths, even though he mourned them, he was willing to move on with his life and do something positive. He wasn't looking back, he was looking ahead. He was old enough to understand that people died and that he couldn't change that. What he could do was help others to avoid a similar fate, but he did not obsess over it.

    You also have to remember that Anakin had another disadvantage and that was a Sith Lord was corrupting him. Countermanding everything that Obi-wan was teaching him about the Force and about the Jedi Code. For thirteen years, Palpatine had Anakin's ear. For twenty years, it was Owen and Beru Lars and them alone, who gave Luke the values and guidance that he needed. From that, it was Obi-wan and Yoda. Palpatine and Vader couldn't corrupt him completely, because Luke held fast to his values.
Moderators: Darth_Nub, Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn