Why has rock failed?

Discussion in 'Archive: The Amphitheatre' started by That_Flashing, Feb 4, 2003.

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  1. That_Flashing Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 2000
    star 5
    I hope this works and I hope this hasn't been posted before.

    This thread has been created to discuss the elements of rock over the years and why it's been second on the Record Charts to Hip Hop or Rap. I'm sure you can all remember the good old days of Arena Rock(Metallica, Faith No More) and even Grunge(Nirvana, Mudhoney). Those days are over now, and it's up to the up-and-commers to show us some good rock. In my opinion, they have failed dramatically. These new bands, especially in the 99-03 era have killed what rock once was. That's just my opinion, though. And with that, I'll get right to it. Here's the question:

    What killed rock?

    Personally, I think it was NuMetal or RapRock(Limp Bizkit, Linkin Park...) Limp Bizkit changed rock forever simply image-wise. Fred Durst made it cool for people to like rock and still be able to wear baggy pants. He opened up an entire genre of music to rock fans. Rap. While rap is a fine music genre, it killed rock for me.

    The other side of rock that has happened lately is "Nu" metal. Linkin Park is a fine example. The "teeny bopper" sound of their music is what made them successful. The screamy, "woa is me" lyrics and frightfully basic riffs make teenage girls think they're listening to rock, and thus... that they are rock fans. Wrong! You're not listening to rock, my friend, you're listening to MTV Trendified Rock.

    Another thing that has happened to rock is "Punk". What is this? What kind of rock is this? A record with 2/4 and 4/4 beats with riffs as easy as a Bob Mareley song? So, just because they scream the lyrics and are rebellious, they are rock bands? I don't think so. Good Charlotte, New Found Glory, Avril Lavigne, Sum 41. These aren't rock bands. It makes me sick to think they claim to be rock bands. Ok, end rant.

    So, what has killed rock for you or what do you think has happened to rock that has made it suck?

    P.S. There are definately still good bands out there; Tool, Mudvayne, Meshuggah, Finger 11... I'd say SOAD, but I don't like thier new album.
  2. StarDude Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2001
    star 5
    I can relate considering I'm a fan of the old-school Rock music that you're talking about. But personally, I like punk music.
  3. solojones Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 9
    I don't think rock is dead. It's just not popular anymore. But if you look, you can still find great bands producing rock.

    -sj loves kevin spacey
  4. Darth_SnowDog Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2001
    star 4
    Music doesn't die. It evolves.

    The current iteration of rock is this Fred Durst-ified version of what Run-DMC and Aerosmith had popularized, and what many before them had experimented with...

    The technological revolution has played a large part in making electronic genres/subgenres far more accessible to artists and consumers. The sheer number of rap, techno, electronica and other electronically-driven acts out there has overpowered the scene... leaving little room for rock.

    Another thing I think that led to the change is the fact that rock became too angst-ridden... self-abhorrent grungester characters like Eddie Vedder became caricatures of themselves... signing with major labels left and right, doing MTV interviews, and yet complaining about fame, popularity and how they don't want it.

    So the public eventually stopped buying the pretentious act...

    Compared to some of the pseudointellectual clowns of the mid- to late-1990s (Billy Corrigan with his goth/Uncle Fester look comes to mind), Vanilla Ice looks like Mozart.
  5. Darth_Banal Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2002
    star 6
    It hasn't failed...it's just a bit harder to find the real deal.

    Radiohead
    White Stripes
    Dandy Warhols
    Black Rebel Motorcycle Club
    Coldplay
    Interpol
    REM
    The Yeah Yeah Yeahs
    Beck
    Sleater-Kinney
    Built to Spill
    U2
    Death Cab for Cutie

    They're all putting out great music.
  6. Otter Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 16, 2001
    star 4
    Don't forget the Tea Party. A seriously over-looked rock band.


    But then again, that's how we like it.

  7. deltron_zero Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2002
    star 6
    Darth_SnowDog pretty much hit the nail on the head, and Darth_Banal has damn good taste in music.

    You should never look at the top 40 charts to find the evolution of music. Once something is commercialized, it does die.
  8. Darth_Banal Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2002
    star 6
  9. Darth Dark Helmet Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 1999
    star 6
    I don't think rock is dead. It's just not popular anymore. But if you look, you can still find great bands producing rock

    My thoughts exactly. The problem is that MTV has deemed rock, "not cool" for the most part. Which means that the teen fan base (for the most part, not everyone) doesn't get the exposure to the bands that they should. And because they don't know about them, they can't request them on the radio and they get no airplay.
  10. jedi_master_ousley Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2002
    star 8
    I know what you mean. I listen to rock/metal from the 80's, and its great, and so is the stuff today, but in a different way.

    In the 80's, it was cool to like rock, it's the type of music that was cool.

    Now it's this rap crap as I call it, that has ruined rock. This whole generation has had rock ruined for them, and like you said, a lot of it comes from MTV and their fake rock stuff.
  11. starwars6554 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 2002
    star 6
    I agree... :)

    Rap and Pop have absolutely killed rock. Crappy excuses for music such as Linkin Park, Nelly, and all the other pointless rappers have taken something that one does not have to have one bit of musical talent and now they're making millions.

    When you look at bands who are extremely musically talented, such as Finger Eleven, Chevelle, Tool, and they're not as succesful, I think that means that the consumers have failed. :(
  12. Darth Dark Helmet Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 1999
    star 6
    I think that means that the consumers have failed.

    No, agian, it goes back to MTV. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Teenagers are probably the biggest group that buys CDs. Many of them probably watch MTV. They see and hear what MTV shows them. If MTV doesn't feature a group, or genre, they get very little exposure to it and they won't be as likely to buy it.

    Consumers are not blame. The Great Satan (MTV) is to blame.
  13. ParanoidAni-droid Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2001
    star 4

    It's no longer the phenomena it was from say '66-'73 but in smaller circles it continues to thrive, the bands that I believe are truly carrying the torch into this millineum are:

    Radiohead- My screen name might've given me away, but for my money, time, admiration, Radiohead's the best band around. End of story.

    Sigur Ros- Aside from Bjork (whose name I'll just include here) the only other Icelandic export that I know of, and boy is the rest of the world the better for them. They're sound is somewhere between Radiohead and the next band on my list...

    Godspeed You Black Emperor- they pick up where all of the prog bands left off. Surrealy symphonic at one moment and then totally hard rockin in the next. They're music is so evocative that I've come up with many a conclusion to stories while listening to them. They're also one of the few political bands that don't get all punky on you.

    Clinic- Stripped down, raw, and ironically danceable rock music. They have some of the coolest rhythms to their songs and they're sound is completely their own.

    Beck- Okay, so he's not exactly representitive of what's new in music but the blokes still going strong and making very fine music... and boy can that man put on a great gig. He's this genration's answer to James Brown!

    Belle & Sebastion- Well, I guess this depends on what you mean by "rock." However, B&S have been making great music for years.

    The Strokes- say what you will, they helped rivitalize rock after as many Limp Bizkity bands plagued the earth.

    Interpol- as a counterpoint to that horrible psuedo-goth resurgence, Interpol play their signature brand of dark rock in the spirit of the late Joy Division. They also have a nice Smithsian feel about them.

    These are just to name but a few.

    ~PAd


  14. Darth-Schwartz Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 16, 2002
    star 4
    theres alot of good REAL rock groups out there. they just don't get any play on the radios stations. i saw the white stripes for the first time on SNL and if that's what people think rock is now.....then the world realy is coming to an end.

    if you must listen to rap-metal or nu-metal here are some better alternatives to the popular few:

    Vanilla Ice - give it a chance. he does both rap and rock rap.
    biohazard - the founding fathers of rap-metal.
  15. pkloa Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2002
    star 4
    it's unfair to say that rap-rock as a genre has killed rock. look at the band that is arguably the best rap-rockers in history: rage against the machine. they did what they did and gave a fresh sound to the industry. the difference between them and the countless other rap-rock bands is they did it for reasons other than money.

    if you look at the time periods that sucked for music, you will find a high percentage of bands were in it for the moolah. 5-10 years after motown got big, beach boys rip-offs, beatles rip-offs, black sabbath rip-offs, the immeasurable amount of hair-metal bands in the 80s, nirvana rip-offs, nu-metal crap, and the tool rip-off Earshot.

    rock has not died, it is waiting for the next big thing. hopefully the next big thing is individuality and love for the music instead of the money.
  16. GrandAdmiralPelleaon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 6
    --->Now it's this rap crap as I call it, that has ruined rock. This whole generation has had rock ruined for them, and like you said, a lot of it comes from MTV and their fake rock stuff.<---

    That's the kind of pretentious whining I so loath.

    a) Rap crap, haha, highly original, atleast it's better then Poisons Cock Rock.

    b) Rock hasn't been ruined for nobody, there's plenty of good Rock out there, you are just too damn lazy to go and look for it. Don't blame anyone but yourself for not having enough "good" Rock.

    c) Mixing Hip-Hop and Rock did get some good results. (Urban Dance Squad anyone?) To let Limp Bizkit dictate your opinion over a genre is stupid to say the least.

    d) Good Charlotte and the like aren't Punk at all.

    e) Rap does take talent to make, what doesn't? Don't you think alot of Rap fans say the same thing about MTV? That it has ruined Rap music and gives people a false impression of it? About the same as you do with Rock? Because it does.
  17. -_-_-_-_-_- Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2002
    star 6
    Rock is dead?


    Anyone here heard of Audioslave?
  18. jedi_master_ousley Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2002
    star 8
    b) Rock hasn't been ruined for nobody, there's plenty of good Rock out there, you are just too damn lazy to go and look for it. Don't blame anyone but yourself for not having enough "good" Rock.

    I've found a lot of good rock bands. It's the fact that no one else has that sucks.

    Anyone here heard of Audioslave?

    EXCELLENT BAND!!!!!!!!!! I bought their CD about a month ago, and love it. Really good music.
  19. GrandAdmiralPelleaon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 6
    I've found a lot of good rock bands. It's the fact that no one else has that sucks.

    What does that matter? If they want to hear them they'll go look for them themselves.
  20. Vaderbait Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2001
    star 6
    Rock is the only music that stays constant, it has a huge fan base, but the majority is "underground." Now I'm not one of those people who only likes unknowns (I hardly ever listen tot he radio, I just buy CDs of bands I like), but the problem is whenever a rocker hits it big, an album later they are no longer rock.

    That is why rock doesn't seem to be as big, but trust me, it is. ;)
  21. Darth_Banal Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2002
    star 6
    Paranoid, I love G!YBE, I forgot to include them on my list. In that same vein, Dirty Three are great as well.

    I've got a couple friends who grew up with classical rock, zeppelin, the who, eagles, etc that still refuse to listen to anything modern...they'll say "rock's been dead since the 80's"...the people who think rock is dead, are they the 90's version of these types? Constantly reminiscing about the "glory days" when Seattle Grunge ruled the charts? Those days are long gone. It would be a shame to miss out on the great directions rock is heading the last few years.

    By the way, am I the only one drooling with anticipation over the new Massive Attack record? Now THAT is a big part of the future of rock.
  22. jedi_master_ousley Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2002
    star 8
    What does that matter? If they want to hear them they'll go look for them themselves.

    It matters because only one radio station here consistently plays rock, and it's not all that popular. Ask 90% of students in the whole district their favorite radio station, and it's the one that plays rap, hip hop, pop, and once every 3 hours or so, a rock song.
  23. stecm Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2002
    star 4
    I don't think rock is dead, I just think it isn't exposed anymore. At my school, almost all the people I know listen to the older rock and metal, and very few listen to rap and music popularized by the pop-culture regurgitator MTV. Anyhow, there are still decent bands around like Audioslave and Dream Theater, it just a matter of trying to find them...
  24. jedi_master_ousley Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2002
    star 8
    At my school, almost all the people I know listen to the older rock and metal, and very few listen to rap and music popularized by the pop-culture regurgitator MTV.

    I can only say that of my closest friends.
  25. Uruk-hai Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 26, 2000
    star 5
    I don't think rock is dead, just that there aren't enough bands willing to do the hard yards live to build up a fan base.

    In Australia we have just finished the festival season - there have been several all day rock festivals this summer, Livid (with bands like Oasis and Powderfinger) sold out completely. Big Day Out (with bands like Foo Fighters and Queens of the Stoneage) sold out completely. M One (with bands like Mindight Oil and The Vines) was sold out. The only festival that didn't sell out was the pop type one that had Craig David etc. That didn't have a great crowd.

    Live music is where rock excels. We need more bands that can do it live and are willing to go on the road. People still love a good old live rock show - rap and pop can't do it like rock does.

    Bands need to limit the over-the-topness of the stage production, stick with just the music and the performers for entertainment and stop charging so much godamn money for live performances.
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