Why has rock failed?

Discussion in 'Archive: The Amphitheatre' started by That_Flashing, Feb 4, 2003.

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  1. sith1137 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 13, 2001
    star 4
    "Another thing that has happened to rock is "Punk". What is this? What kind of rock is this? A record with 2/4 and 4/4 beats with riffs as easy as a Bob Mareley song? So, just because they scream the lyrics and are rebellious, they are rock bands? I don't think so. Good Charlotte, New Found Glory, Avril Lavigne, Sum 41. These aren't rock bands. It makes me sick to think they claim to be rock bands."

    those you mentioned are barely considered punk, let alone rock. i know you dont like them, but at least mention some good and actual punk bands. they have not even put a "cut" on rock music, let alone "killed" it


    have you heard of MxPx, pennywise, AFI, and a bunch of other great punk bands im forgetting?
  2. DARTHPIGFEET Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2001
    star 4
    Here is why Rock failed. Everyone started sounding the same way as everyone else.

    Take for instance you had 4 forms of rock in the 80's.

    1. You had the light rock

    2. You had the hard rock.

    3. You had Metal.

    4. You had punk.

    5. Pop Rock

    Light rock stayed consistent with the way it was done. Love songs mainly with just steady tempos and lyrics.

    Hard Rock went from rising sky high to hitting rock bottom by 1990 due to all of the bands starting to look and sound the same way.

    3. Metal always will look the same. The sound will always be louder than others, but overall some got sick of this type of music and went over into the hard rock route to be more profitable to a wider audience, or evolved into "Alternative"

    4. Punk was underground for years in LA, and in Great Britain, however for a short time hit mainstream. However soon after many of the bands went the route of hard rock.

    5. Pop Rock joined forces some with hard rock, and punk. However have stayed consitent by releasing cheesy sounding music. Just my opinion. However this genre is the most succesful today, because it's mixed in rap and R&B.

    By 1990 you had all this mixing and simply becoming carbon copies of one another. You had a hard time distinquishing between bands.

    Therefore you had a revolution which spawned another revolution with the Alternative and Progressive rock in 91-96. Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Green Day, Offspring, Temple of the Dog, etc..... Started off with a bang by mixing Punk, with hard rock.

    Then that soon evolved into another revolution which has stunk the music scene up badly since then. A mix between alternative/progressive rock with rap to make it more marketable for the young. This is where "attack of the cloned bands comes in" This part is worse then the big haired carbon copy bands of the late 80's. You cannot distinguish between the bands at all. It's sick really. They all sound the same.


    So due to this broad timeline I've given here Rap slipped through the back door and unfortunately has become mainstream and very popular with the young by mixing rap with R&B with pop music to give us your Britney Spears, Backstreet Boys, Nysnc etc......Oh and American Idol.

    However Rap and these types of music are now falling victim to what happened in 90, and 96. They are starting to become carbon copies of each other. I predict within a year or two a new form of music will be created.

    If I was forming a band, I would create a band which got back to the basics of music styles of the 70's. Bring back classic Rock but with a new edge to it. No rap at all. Just a 4 to 5 member band making cool road tunes.
  3. KaineDamo Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2002
    star 5
    Rock music isn't dead. It's just harder to find. There are a couple, though not very many, rock bands that enjoy some success.

    There are two ways of finding new bands. One; MP3s. Two; trying different club scenes till you find a place that plays good rock music. You can't rely on the radio, and you certainly can't rely on TV, to inform you of good rock bands. So, until you do find new acts, just kick back and listen to classic rock bands.
  4. RidingMyCarousel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 20, 2002
    star 6
    The largest problem I see with rock is how it seems to be classified. Flat out, I don't like how there are just so many bands that are labelled as punk, nu metal, emo, etc.. It's all music. Generalizing music is just dumb. I mean, nobody can ever agree to a true definition of what something is -- one person may say that Iron Maiden was punk whereas another would say that Slayer is and another would say Blink 182 is. Okay, talk about a lack of consistency among those lines. When people try to categorize things, the categories fall victim to the media.. and certain images are laid to rest with the categories formed.

    Now, that's all fine and dandy, I guess.. if you're into that sort of thing. But unfortunately, I'm not and I can't stand it. Another thing that ticks me off is how people try and say that rock is dead. It isn't. If you check out smaller bands, such as Dry Cell, Taproot and such (if you're into that scene), then you'll realize (as SnowDog said) that music doesn't die, it just evolves. If you're looking for a band to sound like another, you're on a hopeless search. Because music isn't meant to sound like something else. If it did, everything would end up having one general sound and music would just suck. Thankfully, there are enough bands out there to make me wet my lips... for me, I see the future of the music I enjoy in The Juliana Theory, The Used, Dry Cell, Taproot, Further Seems Forever and other bands along those lines. For the music I enjoy, they constantly bring new things up to the plate. Perhaps it's because these bands aren't truly commercialized (eh.. don't get me started on the Deftones and "White Pony"). While it's a bit of work, expand your view of music from MTV, Much Music, MTV2 and other things such as that. Get into your local music scene. Download random songs from random artists (assuming they allow their music to be downloaded ;)) and see if you like them. You'll always find something you enjoy. If even just one song.

    Eh, that's how I see it, at least.
  5. SPECTOR Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2002
    star 3
    I don' think rock has failed, just that it is changing. Audioslave, Creed, Chevelle etc might not sound like old Ozzy, but personaly I think that that is an improvement.
  6. 1stAD Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2001
    star 5
    Get into your local music scene.

    Bar none, this is the best way to experience new music. Better than even MP3 sampling, because obscure artists are near-impossible to find on the major P2P networks.
  7. JediBeowulf Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 6, 2001
    star 3
    MTV killed rock.

    Indeed, MTV has bastard-ized all music, by making it a commercialized sham of what it used to be. Nowadays, it seems as if the image is what sells, and not the actual music.

    That being said, however, I have to agree with what others have been saying. The best way to experience good music is to go to local venues and listen to what no-name bands are playing, or try to got out and hear some good independent music.
  8. MariahJade2 Former Fan Fiction Archive Editor

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2001
    star 5
    Reads thread. Feels old. :(

    "Video killed the Radio Star."
  9. Waning Drill Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 1999
    star 5
    It's certainly not as commercially acceptable as it once was. The same thing happened in the late 70s.
  10. TheVioletBurns Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2002
    star 4
    Rock's not dead. It's just gone into hiding. Good rock, anyhow.

    Don't take what the music industry offers you on a polished plate. There's a whole other world of music out there... dig in.
  11. GrandAdmiralPelleaon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 6
    However Rap and these types of music are now falling victim to what happened in 90, and 96. They are starting to become carbon copies of each other. I predict within a year or two a new form of music will be created.

    You forgot to add the word Mainstream infront of Rap and even so, there's still plenty of inventive groups in the Rap/Hip-Hop genre, just as it is with Rock you have to look for them but they're there.

    A new type of music might become popular but if you are thinking that Rap was created as a response to Rock becoming stale you're flat out wrong, Rap started in 1970.

    Look, it doesn't matter what *other* people listen to, you have to listen to what YOU like instead of trying to force others to like what you like, if they like R&B instead of Rock, let them, not everybody likes Rock the same way you do. GET OVER IT. Radio had always been rather bad. That's why I do not know anybody who listens to music alot who also listens to the Radio for new music. New music is found by looking for it yourself, do what I do, go to a music store, look through the shelves, find some CDs that look interesting and give them a listen. (most stores around here let you listen to CDs before you buy.) It's easy, the only thing it requires is the little effort of walking down to the music store and looking through the records there.

  12. medleyoz Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2002
    star 4
    Rock hasn't failed it was just a victim of evolution. It branched out into different areas and eventually nu-metal came around and is clser to what kids of today want to listen to.
    Personally I like older bands eg Iron Maiden, Black sabbath but I like some of the new genres of metal ot there such as black metal and the heavier industrial.
    There is a lot of good rock still out there just check out some power metal bands and bands such as Opeth.
    "Live music is where rock excels. We need more bands that can do it live and are willing to go on the road. People still love a good old live rock show - rap and pop can't do it like rock does. "
    I agree with this as nothing beats being in the moshpit watching your favourite bsnd belting out the songs. Rammstein excel at the live show the have great sound and they also have a decent show with pyro .
    I wish teeny boppers would stay out of the moshpit as they have no idea what they are doing


  13. Elfsheen Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2003
    star 5
    Rock isn't dead, it's just not as populair as it used to be. Nowadays the singers are in and not the songs or lyrics.

    I also hate how they turn old rock songs into pop music. Brrr... that is just terrible. It's like no one knows anything original.

    For example take Do, she turned an old song of Bryan Adams into a candy sweet love song, ARGH!
  14. pkloa Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2002
    star 4
    a few weeks back, my wife told me that r&b and rap were more socially acceptable than rock. i had to think for a while on why that was. the final reason i could come up with is that rock is not forced down everyone's throat as much as rap/r&b. correct me if i'm wrong, but overall, when a person is blaring rap from their car/ room and someone asks them to turn it down, a big **** you is the usual response. and again overall when someone is blasting some rock and a nice old lady asks them to stop, they usually turn it down.

    does this explain why mainstream rock sounds like bad rap with guitars and a live drummer? maybe. does it explain why high schoolers trying to look cool jam to mudvayne instead of pink floyd? possibly. eh, whatever.
  15. Master_NightSong Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 8, 2003
    First things first: it annoys the hell out of me when bands like Good Charlotte, New Found Glory, Avril Lavigne, Sum 41, and Blink 182 are referred to as punk. They are the furthest thing from punk. Punk was about something; it was about freedom, liberation, rebellion against the status quo. (see bands like The Plasmatics, The Sex Pistols, and their ilk). That crap that gets played on the radio is often called emo, meaning emotional or something like that; meaning it's a bunch of kids singing about their lost loves. Now, emo has it's place, I like some of the indie emo bands like Saves the Day, Hot Rod Circuit, and Taking Back Sunday. But it's not punk.

    Anyway, to concur with everyone else, no, rock is not dead. It's buried alive in an avalanche of mediocre schlock. The marketing execs. in the music business today are very clever; they find a young kid/band, hook them up with a specific producer, get an ultra-trendy sound which guarantees no-one but nostalgia buffs will give a damn ten or fifteen years from now. These kids are so pumped up and thrilled to be famous, then within a couple years, they're forgotten and they're appearing on some VH1 "Where Are They Now?" program, replaced with The Next Big Thing. And has anyone else noticed that every couple years some new band is proclaimed as "The Savior of Rock," then they're cast aside too? It's all marketing. Nothing more. Personally, I involuntarily vomit everytime I channel surf and stop briefly on MTV. I am so disgusted with this whole mainstream scene.

    Indie is the only way to go. That's where you're going to find musicians who can be called "ARTISTS." Remember that word? I work in retail, so I work with a lot of young kids. I mentioned some indie band I like to this girl one day, and made some comment like "I pray they don't sell out because they'll be forgotten in a few years." She says, "Wouldn't it be better to be famous for a little while than not at all?" I looked at her like she had six heads. I said "Um...no...I like people who get into music for love of the music, not for a desire for fame. Not everyone gets into it shooting to be famous." She goes "Oh really?" I shook my head and went outside for a cigarette.

    To get back to the point...here's some indie music worth looking into.

    Marianne Faithfull - This one has been around since the 1960's and has never sold out. Just saw her at the Paradise Rock Club in Boston and for a woman of 56, she still rocks out really hard.

    Josh Rouse - Mid-tempo acoustic based music. Well worth your time.

    Ani DiFranco - Often called the mistress of indie. She started her own company in 1990 and she's still going strong.

    Andy Stochansky - DiFranco's old drummer, now a solo act. He mixes several different styles on his albums but it works, it never once comes off as an out-of-whack mishmash.

    Killswitch Engage - Really hard and heavy-hitting metal (usually called hardcore) mixed with more melodic metal. Brilliance.

    That's just off the top of my head. I could go on for hours but I'll spare you.
  16. Ghent99 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2001
    star 1
    There really isn't that many bands, imo, that are coming out with good music lately. I personally hate MTV or (eMp-T-V) but I do realize that the mindless people out there need it to make their decisions for them. I don't, I'll listen to different types of music but only becauss I like an aspect of it although generally I like Prog Rock or hard rock (basically the same thing). I don't care what others do but I do hate it when pop music and punk are labeled as "rock" and I think they are just because thats what MTV wants them to be. Hopefully some good bands will start coming up...bands that actually have talent and can venture away from power chords and 4/4 timing.
  17. Waning Drill Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 1999
    star 5
    Punk was about something; it was about freedom, liberation, rebellion against the status quo.


    Punk was about being pissed off. You're fooling yourself if you think it ever had some deep, romanticized socioeconomic stabilizing cultural influence.
  18. KaineDamo Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2002
    star 5
    No, Waning. He just has a different opinion about the music is all.
  19. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    It's funny. In 1990 and 1991, people were crying that Rock was dead and it was Pearl Jam and Nirvana that helped to push rock back into something viable and creative. Now they are being mocked.

    In 1981 and 1982, people were crying that Rock was dead and it was Def Leppard who almost single handedly rescued rock from the tired crap of the late 70s and pushed rock back into something viable and creative. Then in the early 90s they were mocked.

    This tired argument happens every 10 or so years, when the collective attention span moves elsewhere. The last big burst of great rock has waned and the next big thing has not come around yet. It's a cycle of pop culture. No amount of whining is going to change this. Give it two years and the next Big rock thing will be all over and this discussion will be but a memory.

  20. Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2000
    star 8
    Punk was about taking rock, which even then was supposedly locked in a creatively barren and fluffy mode, and deconstructing it.

    And as far as Punk not having a social impact, tell me, ever heard of The Clash?

    Regardless, when you say Punk was about being pissed off, so was the American Revolution, so was the Harlem Renaissance, so were a lot of things. I think it was Sherman Alexie who said that every artist should be angry. It's an oversimplification, but his point is well taken.

    Angry people, pissed off people, as you put it, get things done, yes?
  21. DAK52476 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 21, 1999
    star 1
    Nirvana is mocked? They make the top 100 lists of about every magazine list and VH1 special that comes out, and are almost always in the top 20(if not 10.) I know a lot of 16 and 17 year old kids who still love the band. Yes, they still catch a certain amount of flack on the web like everything else does. Yes, their influence isn't that visible in modern music, aside from the feeble attempts of nu-metal bands to imitate them. But they still get quite a bit of respect for a band that hasn't been around for almost 10 years.
  22. Waning Drill Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 1999
    star 5
    And as far as Punk not having a social impact, tell me, ever heard of The Clash?


    Yeah. And Dylan, and REM, and U2, and Country Joe, and... You can have political overtones without being punk, and you certainly don't have to be "punk" to have political overtones. Any band can do that on their downtime.
  23. ParanoidAni-droid Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2001
    star 4

    What was punk rock? (notice the past tense)

    It was the same thing that French Impressionism was, or the Italian film realism movement. At the point of its conception, things needed to devolve, The Rammones' album of three-chord songs at the height of the progressive movement being a perfect example.

    ~PAd

  24. Master_NightSong Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 8, 2003
    Waning Drill, at what point in my previous post did I say that I thought punk had a "deep, romanticized, socioeconomic, stabilizing cultural influence"? All I said was that it was about something; and if you listen to the lyrics of the old punk bands, you cannot deny that they are singing about freedom, liberation, and rebellion against the status quo, as I previously noted. That was a statement of fact, not of belief. But some of the bands have had a lasting influence (The Clash, as previously noted by another poster, and The Ramones obviously).
  25. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    Nirvana is mocked? They make the top 100 lists of about every magazine list and VH1 special that comes out, and are almost always in the top 20(if not 10.) I know a lot of 16 and 17 year old kids who still love the band. Yes, they still catch a certain amount of flack on the web like everything else does. Yes, their influence isn't that visible in modern music, aside from the feeble attempts of nu-metal bands to imitate them. But they still get quite a bit of respect for a band that hasn't been around for almost 10 years.

    They do get mocked. They and Pearl Jam have been mocked in this very thread.



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