Why I believe...

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Kimball_Kinnison, Mar 13, 2002.

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  1. GreedoCMZ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 1999
    star 4
    And science is about constantly learning not pridefully saying you know everything.
  2. SithLordMara Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2001
    star 4
    i'm impressed...most religious conversations lead to dogging what others believe...i applaud you all. stand up for what you believe in.

    ~*Sith*~
  3. Isiah Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2002
    star 2
    Ok maybe I phrased my question in a glib manner. What I'm looking for is you opinion on how God set the universe in motion. What was the spark, catalyst that started it all.

  4. Ree Yees Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2000
    star 5
    Not only is it man's best attempt, it is also a way to find out how things work, how things were, and how things will be. It is the way with which the human race explores its surroundings, and hopefully one day, will be able to move into space.
  5. Kimball_Kinnison Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2001
    star 6
    What I'm looking for is you opinion on how God set the universe in motion. What was the spark, catalyst that started it all.

    I don't know. It's on my list of questions for Him someday.

    Kimball Kinnison
  6. cydonia Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 5
    I wonder that since we don't know what the catalyst is, the beleif in a creator with human qualites just comes about by default.
  7. Isiah Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2002
    star 2
    I don't know. It's on my list of questions for Him someday

    So then why do you believe that He made the spark? Today the human race, through scientific methods, has discovered and proven things that years ago we just thought to be the will of God, earthquakes, the seasons, gravity etc. Now we have decided that there are natural and not devine reasons behind these events. What makes you think that someday, if were around long enough, that we wont find out how it all began and be faced with the fact that it didn't begin livke we've all thought?
  8. Kimball_Kinnison Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2001
    star 6
    Today the human race, through scientific methods, has discovered and proven things that years ago we just thought to be the will of God, earthquakes, the seasons, gravity etc.

    Let me put it this way: Everything that happens, happens according to the laws of nature. I do not believe that there is any such thing as a "supernatural" (as in something that cannot be explained by the laws of nature) event. You seem to keep focussing on the means of things occuring, rather than the why of its occurance. Tell me, scientifically, what would an earthquake caused by God look like, as opposed to a "natural" one. There would be no difference. They would both be caused by tectonic stresses.

    How do you tell the difference between water that has been purified through evaporation (a natural process) and water created from the combustion of Hydrogen and Oxygen? You can't. Does that mean that a scientist in his lab didn't cause the formation of pure water because it can be observed evaporating and condensing naturally?

    Science tries to explain the "how"; religion explains the "why".

    Kimball Kinnison
  9. cydonia Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 5
    I think it's quite possible that these natural events are god's way of doing things. I don't see how that automatically means it's the God of the bible.
  10. The_Emperors_Foot Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 2000
    star 3
    I'm an agnostic athiest. This means that I do not believe in any god, and am very much an evolutionist, but I recognize the fact that there is most certainly the possibility that I could be wrong. I'm not going to be as arrogant as to say that I know the answer, you're wrong if you believe otherwise, and my god can beat up your god. Now, with that out of the way, I'll tell you why (and please take the time to read this, if you're going to respond :) ):

    I've always been fascinated by this galaxy and the amazing things that are, and have enjoyed learning why and how they came to be. I am particularly enthralled by the astonishing complexity of everything, most notably the earth and its inhabitants. One thing that will always captivate me is the human brain. The best of the best of scientists have only begun to learn anything concrete about it and how it works. The same thing with evolution; it's amazing, and yet completely plausible and proven!... at least among animals, because humans are so far above being animals! **rolls eyes**

    Now, religion, IMO, can be quite absurd in its answers and reasoning, and spits in the face of such amazing ideas. Humans are always fearing what they don't understand, and, to make up for this weak-mindedness, have to explain EVERYTHING! For example, some key questions that the Bible only remedied:

    Q: WAIT! I DON'T UNDERSTAND! HOW IS IT THAT A GALAXY SO IMMENSE AND COMPLEX COME ABOUT?!?
    A: Ummmmmmmmmm.... Well, it's because.... Uhhhh... God. God created it all.
    **sighs of releif heard**

    Q: HOLD ON, HELP! HOW IS IT SOMETHING SO SPECTACULAR AND INTRICATE AS THE HUMAN BODY AND THIS EARTH CAME INTO BEING?!?
    A: Whew, that's a good one.... It all has to do with... Well, no, I guess.... OK, it was God! Right? Yeah, it was God.
    **Again, sighs of relief is heard**

    Q: WHY, OH WHY DID LITTLE TIMMY DIE SO SOON? HE WAS SUCH A GOOD KID, AND DIDN'T DESERVE WHAT HE WAS SERVED! WHY!?!
    A: No, no, you musn't be worried, because GOD has plans for him... **nervous laughter** See? That was meant to happen, because it all fits into the Grand Scheme, and surely something good will come from it, because... ahhh... because God works in MYSTERIOUS WAYS, no less. See?
    **A loud sigh of relief is heard**

    This all, in my mind, insults human intelligence. Can't we just admit that we don't, can't, and never will have all the answers?!? Why do we have to make up such ridiculous (IMO!) stories? Can't we accept that there are things that are just beyond us, at least at this point in time. Apparently not; We had to create God to comfort us, and prevent us from seriously trying to answer such questions.

    I look at the creation of the universe, the planets and stars in it, and the things occupying them scientifically. Having God create everything just diminishes the complexity and astonishment of it all. I find everything much more amazing because it became without any outside interferance!!! It's amazing that such things can come about without a God just conjuring them up! Religion just destroys that, in my eyes.

    Also, religion is a form of racism, especially, it seems, among Christians. They consider themselves supierior to others, because they are clearly the most populous of world religions, and therefore they must be right. Hell, I've even seen a priest tell a Rabbi, who've both devoted their lives to their particular beliefs, I've seen him tell the Rabbi that he is wrong, and he'd give him the chance to convert and be saved in the name of Jesus Christ. How sick and arrogant is THAT?!? Christianity is socially accepted, as are the Jews (because it'd be impolite to insult them after the Holocaust), and people talk about Jesus all the time and are met with admiration and respect. But the second I tell someone that I'm an athiest, their opinion of me changes - I can see it happen in their eyes. Now, I'm no longer just a guy, I'm now "lost and confused," and a po
  11. StarBlazer Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 2, 2001
    star 4
    WOW!!! The_Emperors_Foot, if I had to justify why I belive the things I do, I would say just that! (Except mine wouldn't be as well worded 8-} ) Thanks for replying for the both of us!!!


    *Star*
  12. The_Emperors_Foot Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 2000
    star 3
    Thanks, StarBlazer! I'm glad I can vent a few things here and not be immediately shouted down! :)
  13. Isiah Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2002
    star 2
    "We had to create God to comfort us, and prevent us from seriously trying to answer such questions."

    Mr. Foot:
    I am also an agnostic/athiest and I believe that your statement, although somewhat glib, is correct. Religion gives people a sence of community, security, structure, and reason for being. But the biggest factor behind a person's choice to "find God" is the simple fact that it makes them happy, and I really can't argue with that. Now if they get in my face and become preachy or fly an airplane into my sky scraper, they have lost touch with the pulse of what religion is in the first place. Try reading A History of God by Karen Armstrong for starters if you're interested on why the world religions turned out the way the are.
  14. Darth_SnowDog Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2001
    star 4
    I am a Hindu. I need not be agnostic because Hinduism is a henotheistic belief.

    That being said, as a Hindu I am a student of philosophy and science. These are the cornerstones of my beliefs...

    Why am I a Hindu? Because to me, it is my ethnicity, my parent culture, not my religion. It's like someone saying they are Greek or French. There was a time when I was purely agnostic, almost even atheistic... but as I grew older, I became more and more aware of the culture and rich 7000-year old ancestry/history out of which I was born.

    I consider myself a Hindu because, in all my exploration of culture, philosophy and science, I have not found a more fulfilling, enriching and open-minded experience with which I can historically identify... except perhaps Buddhism.

    Perhaps it is most important for me to note that with science, philosophy and faith... the answers offered are not nearly half as important (at least to me, anyway) as the thought-provoking questions that are raised.
  15. ktwsolo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2001
    star 4
    Kimball_Kinnison or others:

    What does it mean if I have been praying to God for a long while, asking to be shown His true ways, and what I get is about 20 times as much deja vu as normal? I have heard that deja vu plays prominently with Eastern ideas of reincarnation and viewing past lives.
  16. RiggsWolfe Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2002
    star 2
    Well, i just thought I'd chime in. I started life as a Christian but have slowly swayed from that, mostly due to bad experiences within the several denominations I tried. (Primarily rampant hypocrisy). Note I am not making a judgement on Christians, rather noting my experiences.

    I still believed in something, this belief was further reinforced by being a Physics major in college for awhile, as I became convinced that the universe as we know couldn't possibly be a random effect, an accident so to speak.

    Then over the last decade I have had experiences which have made me begin to question alot. In particular, I'm getting more and more drawn to the idea of reincarnation, I've met too many people who I just...knew, and who knew me. In fact, one of them is dead now, and she told someone that she was waiting for me before her next go round, and quite frankly, I find that thought...comforting.

    There's more to it than that, but I am truly becoming a believer in past lives, and in other experiences unexplainable by science. I just don't have a ...name for it yet.
  17. Kimball_Kinnison Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2001
    star 6
    What does it mean if I have been praying to God for a long while, asking to be shown His true ways, and what I get is about 20 times as much deja vu as normal? I have heard that deja vu plays prominently with Eastern ideas of reincarnation and viewing past lives.

    I'm not sure I know what you are asking. Would you care to elaborate?

    Kimball Kinnison
  18. Obi-Wan McCartney Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 1999
    star 5
    Snow-dog, I am a hindu, and my experience and yours with religion seem to be virtually identicle. I also view my hinduism as more culture-based rather than faith based.
  19. ktwsolo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2001
    star 4
    Kimball_Kinnison:

    You said earlier on that you prayed to God to show you the right way and that's why you are Christian. I did the same and it seems to be pointing me towards a reincarnation theme. I was raised liberal Protestant. Any comments?
  20. Lord Bane Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 26, 1999
    star 5
    Here's a question - how come the old "what do you believe and why" threads get ignored whenever someone wants to know about fellow users' beliefs? ;)
  21. nyjets Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 29, 2001
    star 4
    I believe in what i believ not because of any special experience or anything like God tlaking to me but I believe because I have faith.Honestly I can't really explain more then that
  22. Quietforce Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 3
    May I say one thing, about Christians being hypocrites...

    We still sin all the time!

    The superiority idea some "Christians" seem to take up is bull, and it embarrasses me and also gives the rest of us a bad name. I mean, just because you become a Christian does not mean you are suddenly...perfect or something. Gimme a break. We are no better than the next person. The only technical difference between a Christian and a non-Christian is that one is following Christ, one is not. Period.

    Sometimes, it's other "Christians" who tear their own down. It's a sad fact and proof of this messed up world. In truth, Biblically, God hates religion, and Christ came to destroy it, so true Christianity ain't a religion eitha.

    Just wanted to clear up many common misconceptions here.

    My $0.02! ;)
  23. Kimball_Kinnison Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2001
    star 6
    I thik I'll up this for the people who have had threads locked by Lord Bane. Come on in! We'd love to have you here!

    Kimball Kinnison
  24. Darth Fierce Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 6, 2000
    star 4
    I was going to post this in the "firm beliefs" thread, but that's been closed and redirected here. I'm not sure how my thoughts will fit in here, since they have nothing to do with religion, but rather beliefs in general and how we defend them. But this was the option given to me.

    While I've never advocated making abortion illegal, my "firm beliefs" are against it fundamentally. I believe in defending the rights of the unborn child. However, there are those who refuse to see that stance as one of compassion. They won't recognize the fact that my heart lies with the defenseless infant, and instead choose to portray this belief as having some kind of hidden, probably sexist, agenda. Now, it's one thing to argue that my compassion is misplaced upon something unworthy of it, if that's your opinion. But can't opponents of my belief at least concede, and maybe even admire, the compassion behind it? I am not out to find out how many women I can control and oppress. Why misrepresent the argument and avoid the real issue?

    I have my suspicions about that, of course. Common sense dictates that it's much easier to prove your side of a debate, and feel better about yourself, if you can paint your opponent in an immoral light. If you can convince people, and yourself, that your opponent has an ulterior motive of evil, it makes you look good. Whereas admitting that your point of conflict is with your opponent's compassion might reflect badly upon you. There's much to be gained by twisting the issue. But it's not very nice. Or fair. Such underhanded tactics, in turn, make a legitimate case for being suspicious of the motives of the pro-choice movement.

    Is it possible for an advocate of abortion rights to ever begin a sentence with "I respect and admire your compassion, however...". What, does it go against the pro-choice handbook?

    Note: Please keep your replies focused on the issue of how abortion is argued, rather than abortion itself.
  25. cydonia Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 5
    I think i feel the same way about abortion. It's not really my business if a woman decides to do it, but it's not something to celebrate for crying out loud. Some people on the pro choice side make it seem like abortion is a rite of passage, or something to celebrate. You wonder if abortion is something they enjoy, and why they are so pre-occupied with it.
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