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Clone Wars Why I prefer The Clone Wars (Microseries & Animated series) to the Clone Wars Comics, etc

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by KED12345, Oct 20, 2012.

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  1. KED12345 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2012
    star 4
    Before I get into my points and opinions, please remember that they are just my opinions. I do not want to offend anyone, and if you know you're going to hate this thread, please exit out of it instead of commenting. But, I would really like you guys to hear my points. Also, this isn't just about the Clone Wars animated series, I will also discuss elements of the microseries as well.

    The story of Star Wars is, in my opinion, the story of Anakin Skywalker and Obi-Wan Kenobi as portrayed through the eyes of R2D2 and C3P0 (they serve as the Rosencratz and Guildenstern of the series if I must bring a literature example in). The Jedi all die in Order 66, and the empire begins, we know how it ends. The Clone Wars Expand Universe (IE, not the Microseries or the Animated series), do not portray very well, in my opinion, the friendship and real story of Anakin and Obi-Wan. I read the comics and the novels, and Anakin seems like an absolutely terrible person, not in the sense of pure evil, but a whiny, irresponsible, twisted, cold hearted teenager with one single minded ambition - power. It portrays Obi-Wan pretty well, as a good guy, but it's clear he still believes, or acts, himself the role of master to Anakin when he becomes a Knight. That doesn't match up at all with Obi-Wan's description of Anakin in A New Hope, he viewed Anakin as a good friend, or his best friend. Even when they were still master and student at the beginning of the war in the comics, it still doesn't feel right between them. Obi-Wan seems too war minded, not at peace with himself and ignoring Anakin's issues, like him wanting to be a Jedi Knight. It's like he completely overlooks Anakin's evil standing right in front of him.
    [IMG]
    The microseries and the animated series show this, the most crucial aspect of the Clone Wars for the viewer, perfectly. The microseries began us with Anakin as a Padawan learner. It shows Anakin and Obi-Wan as Master and apprentice, bickering and calling eachother out, even going to the point of him calling out Obi-Wan for not being as good as Qui-Gon. Now, you're probably asking yourself, how is that any different from the EU Clone Wars? Obi-Wan actually comforts Anakin, and you can see the smile on Obi-Wan's face when Anakin is knighted. He's proud of Anakin, and he loves Anakin as his son, and they will become brothers. Cue the 2008 animated series, Anakin is a Jedi Knight now, and Obi-Wan sits on the council. Watching the series, you can tell just how much different the friendship between Anakin and Obi-Wan is, it's believable, workable. They joke around, and it's clear they're the best of friends, they work together as one. Anakin though isn't without flaw, but instead of the obvious evil Anakin has in the EU Clone Wars, we see what we should - hints of it when he's in his darkest moments, or fears the most for the ones he loves, or more importantly, the grief he feels when he looses a loved one, that's when he looses it.

    We now get a new character into the mix with Anakin - Ahsoka. Ahsoka is the daughter Anakin will never have. Now we enter the point of this discuss where my opinions on things we already know about the Clone Wars becomes wild speculation. It is obvious though that Yoda and Obi-Wan assigned Ahsoka to Anakin to teach him a lesson - to let go of the ones he loves. Something horrible is going to happen to Ahsoka that will cause Anakin towards the end of the series that will completely destroy Anakin mentally, right before the events of Revenge of the Sith. He will also probably do something horrific to someone in retribution to her death, and Obi-Wan will bare witness to his best friend and brother at his darkest, his most horrific hour, to the point were Obi-Wan and Anakin don't mention Ahsoka for a while, as the shock is so heavy, so hard on Anakin's heart. Obi-Wan also won't mention Ahsoka again, in fear of seeing Anakin unleashing his hatred and fear again.
    [IMG]
    Ahsoka's eventual fate will be the real trigger for Anakin's fall to the dark side, and obsession with immortality. First, he lost his mother, then he lost his student, the being equal to his daughter. He believes, not matter what the cost, he will learn to stop people from dying to save Padme somehow, by becoming as powerful as he can be.

    Watching Revenge of the Sith after watching The Clone Wars makes me really feel for Anakin's fall, instead of thinking 'Oh good, that sick bastard had it coming' like I would after reading the comics, it makes me feel sorry for Anakin. He's lost his mother, he will by the end of series have lost his student, and in doing so it drove him to the dark side, believing that it can strengthen him to save Padme. He's already seen how with Darth Maul's survival that it can sustain people, and now Sidious has furnished the idea in his head that if Darth Plagueis could learn the secret, so can we. We all know what happens, Anakin Skywalker dies - and Darth Vader is born. It was Vader who, immersed in the dark side, killed his own wife once he saw Obi-Wan emerge from her ship to face him. It was Vader, immersed in the dark side, who put the final nail in his coffin. Obi-Wan sees this, and that's why he tells Luke that Anakin Skywalker is dead, because from his point of view that is absolutely true.

    Now, does The Clone Wars have its downsides? Certainly, because the story is about Anakin and Obi-Wan. It's not about senators talking politics, or Jar-Jar running around being an idiot. It's their story, and that's why you see so many episodes focusing on them. We get to see Anakin and Obi-Wan become brothers, far more realistically than you would see in the Expanded Universe Clone Wars. Each of their actions reflects the others.

    So, that was a bit of a read, I know. But I hope you guys understand how I feel and hopefully feel different about this show. I understand that it doesn't live up to your expectations, or you feel the script is poorly done, because it's written as such. But the above is George Lucas's vision, and the stuff you see that you don't like is a direct result of the fans wants and needs, because the episodes that show anything other than Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Ahsoka are all because the writers and directors wanted to make nods to the Expand Universe, not George Lucas. He really doesn't care about the expanded universe, and The Clone Wars is his take on it.
  2. Deputy Rick Grimes Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 6
    I agree with you on everything!!!!!
  3. JackG Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2011
    star 4
    People need to stop treating Lucas like god. He's not. This "Lucas' vision" **** is something which people use as a way of invalidating the perfectly acceptable EU that George overrides. Remember when you took my money for that stuff? People presume tuat because Lucas has a hand in a project it is instantly better. Most of the time that's false and the opposite. Indeed TCW is hardly "essential" to Lucas' vision; he just wants more money.

    Also I don't know what comics you were reading because you clearly missed the TPB When They Were Brothers which detailed Anakin and Obi-Wan's exploits during the war.

    And this 'Ahsoka's eventual fate will be the real trigger for Anakin's fall to the dark side' stuff is absolutely comical. Remember when it was Padmè's death which Anakin wanted to prevent which led him to the darkside, the corruption in the Republic?

    Damn, I feel old. It's like we're all living in Oceania and I'm Winston, who still remembers what the past really was before it was rewritten by and for Big Brother.
  4. 07jonesj Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2010
    star 4
    I agree with you up to a certain point. IMO, the EU excelled when it focused on other characters, like Barriss Offee in the MedStar duology, or Mace Windu in Shatterpoint.

    The Clone Wars (2008-NOW) has Anakin and Obi-Wan's characters nailed. They are the characters I know from the films, simple as that. Even though their voices have changed, they are the same people. The Clone Wars, as you have so rightly stated, actually shows Anakin being the face of the Republic. He was a hero. Nobody saw his betrayal in RotS coming, because he was so public, and such a hero.

    We do see small moments of Dark Anakin emerge in this series, and that is necessary, and good foreshadowing to boot, but for the most part we have Hero Anakin in TCW.

    I... dislike the Tartakovsky series. It's really over-the-top, and there isn't really any character there. It's mostly shooting and crazy imagery.

    So I think both have their place - I love The Clone Wars (2008-NOW) portrayal of the saga characters, and I love the EU's portrayal of background or original characters. Quinlan Vos, from the comics is awesome.

    And I love the novel series they did - including Republic Commando. Even if they are overwritten by Lucas, I'm still going to re-read them. A good story is a good story, and we got some damn good stories.
    Last edited by 07jonesj, Oct 20, 2012
  5. KED12345 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2012
    star 4
    The EU did do great with Windu's shatterpoint, which I did love (I listened to the audiobook that someone uploaded to youtube), but Star Wars isn't the story of Mace Windu, or Barriss Offee, it's the story of Anakin and Obi-Wan. Everyone else serves to set up the tragic fall of Anakin as secondary characters (Ahsoka, Padme, Palpatine, etc)

    Don't get me wrong, I do not hate Expanded Universe (I don't like the comics much, but that's another story), the novels are excellent, anything by James Luceno is worth a read. But simply the above is my view of Star Wars.
    Last edited by KED12345, Oct 20, 2012
  6. Deputy Rick Grimes Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 6
    Actually, it's really the story of Anakin Skywalker only :p
  7. KED12345 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2012
    star 4
    No, it's the story of Obi-Wan too. Him, Anakin, C-3P0, and R2-D2 are the only characters that play a part in all 6 movies. Anakin is the main character, but it's Obi-Wan's story too.

    @JackG believe whatever you want, but I stated again and again, this was my opinion, and my take. Saying it's comical is ridiculous and unfair.
    Last edited by KED12345, Oct 20, 2012
  8. JackG Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2011
    star 4
    You made a thread purely about your opinion and then are upset when people pull apart your post, really?!
    Saying "Ahsoka's eventual fate will be the real trigger for Anakin's fall to the dark side" is stupid given she didn't even exist when RotS was written, therefore she's not responsible. So no, saying that is neither ridiculous nor unfair.
    Zeta1127 and Esg like this.
  9. Ridikulous Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 2012
    Coming out of lurk mode for this.

    people like you are the worst. It's clear you're not even going to listen to his opinion. You're so stuck up in your own opinion that you're not open minded about what anyone else says, except when people agree with your ridiculous views. Stop being confrontational and actually be reasonable. and for the record, I agree with him. Ahsoka will be one of many cords that will cause Anakin to fall to the darkside. Get a grip.



    GARTH EDIT: You're going too far here. Take a break.
    cwustudent likes this.
  10. KED12345 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2012
    star 4
    I'm sorry, I didn't write that properly. I meant to say that Ahsoka's eventual fate will be another step towards his eventual downfall. I was being hypothetical, expanding on the assumption of Ahsoka's fate. It adds to the fall of Anakin, with the real fall being Padme. Trying to save Padme.

    Come on dude, really? He's being confrontational yes, but there's no reason to make it personal. @JackG I respect your views, and I really do know where you're coming from. Try not to make it personal though Ridikulous, because I really did write a lot for you guys to have an honest discussion with what you view wrong with my views OR if you agree with it.
    Last edited by KED12345, Oct 20, 2012
    JackG likes this.
  11. Esg Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    You should have stayed there if your so easily bent out of shape about people expressing their opinion and not participating in a hugfest
  12. JackG Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2011
    star 4
    Ah, so I need to get a grip because I don't agree with his views, eh? I read his whole post but I fundamentally don't disagree so I'm the "worst" type of person. FYI I actually like some of the things KED said, the analogy of Threepio and Artoo as Shakespearean offsiders is nice (though the droids weren't executed :p) I pulled on thing out - the Ahsoka thing - and labelled it comical, so what? It's my opinion and the OP has their own. There's no need for you to make personal attacks.

    @KED12345 to clarify, I respect your opinion wholeheartedly but I disagree. It's nothing personal. Also I agree Ahsoka will affect Anakin after this show; not 2005 like I thought you meant. :p
    Last edited by JackG, Oct 20, 2012
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  13. Valairy Scot Backpacking One Pack a Day Mod of New Films

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 6
    Opinions can be countered without descending into put-downs. Really.

    What comics have you read, KED12345? I have not read them all, but like JackG said, there were comics like When They Were Brothers which do show some mutual caring. IMHO, the friendship is BEST portrayed between Obi-Wan and Anakin in TCW compared to the films and the various EU *I* have read.
    MistrX and cwustudent like this.
  14. KED12345 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2012
    star 4
    I've read a few here and there, that's just what I got out of them. The Star Wars: Republic series, Obsession are mostly it. I'm referring to the books in the most part, Labyrinth of Evil, Shatterpoint, Dark rendezvous, the Cestus Deception, etc are some of the novels I've read. I love the novels to death, but they don't capture the spirit of Anakin and Obi-Wan.

    Also, please keep in mind I'm also praising the microseries heavily, even if the new series contradicts it. The microseries is one of the best pieces of Star Wars TV there is, period.
    Last edited by KED12345, Oct 20, 2012
  15. Valairy Scot Backpacking One Pack a Day Mod of New Films

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 6
    To each his own - I enjoy the microseries but I do not love it.
    KED12345 likes this.
  16. Ridikulous Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 2012

    No, you didn't just disagree with his views, or post an opinion, you went straight into putting his opinion down.

    That's not constructive argument, that's not accomplishing anything, that's being an a**. You dived head first with the first thing you knew how to do - ridicule someone for their opinion. . Look at @Valairy Scot posted, see that? Take note of how he managed to disagree with the OP, but showed respect at the same time. You disrespected him and his opinion outright. And even then, he still showed you respect with his response.

    I'm sorry mods, but this is uncalled for and it keeps on going unchecked, no wonder so many people leave this forum, no one can say anything without being put down if they disagree with the 'general opinion' of the regulars on here that TCW blows and the 2003-2005 multimedia project is the best thing since ESB.

    Am I expecting everyone to sit around a campfire and sing? No, but I would like to see some decency with a response for once on here when someone disagrees with someone elses opinion, and learn to accept that people like what you dont.



    GARTH EDIT: you're not helping anything at all. If you can't see a difference between someone saying "that's a stupid idea" and "you're stupid", you are going to have a difficult time here.
    Last edited by Ridikulous, Oct 20, 2012
  17. JackG Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2011
    star 4
    Fine, perhaps I am a negative person and guilty of ridicule. Perhaps I should move on, as you suggest. I'd just like to clarify that the issue of TCW vs. EU is something I'm very passionate about and as such I have debated it numerous times, I know I come across as fierce and angry. Yes, my second post was harsh and that's not okay. I meant not malice towards the OP and if I offended @KED12345 then I'm sorry. If my posts came across as overzealous and confrontational, I'm sorry. I don't intend to ridicule, but yes, sometimes I do. So long, LACWAC.
    Last edited by JackG, Oct 20, 2012
  18. vong333 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2003
    star 4

    I blasted someone on the offical site for posting they stole my money, the EU is suppose to be everything crap. First, let me tell you something, GL is the owner of the property and can do whatever he likes. Second, back in 1995, he released an intro in the Splinter's of the Mind's Eye Book and he clearly stated if I'm not mistaken that Star Wars can be told by thousands of stories, but, those stories were not his to tell. That means, that all the other stories, while they fit a type of continuim is by no means GL's vision. All those writers, artisits, etc, sign contracts that stipulate that whatever they create are there for GL to use when ever how ever he wants. It's his property. I never felt cheated and still don't and still like all those EU stories. If anything I feel that Dark Horse really dropped the ball in adapting good clone war comics with this series. Instead we have had to watch the clone wars in digest form every certain months or get them overseas. What ever happened with working with the clone wars crew to create stories that could not be made into tv? I take the clone wars micro series and the regular animated series over the comic books any day
    KED12345 likes this.
  19. AkashKedavra_93 Emperor of the Seven Realms and the First Dragons

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 8, 2011
    star 4
    I enjoy a lot of the EU and I enjoy most of TCW/CW. There are conflicts for me like Obsession, I felt Adi's death was better done but I didn't like Ventress in it, so I enjoy Ventress more in the show but I like Adi's death less. Really I don't feel that strongly about it to be quite honest.
  20. Spazmatron Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 19, 2012
    star 3
    ^ Yeah Ventress has so much more dynamic. Became one of my favorite characters post episode 19 in S4.
  21. Mia Mesharad Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    You blasted someone on the official site for posting a legitimate issue with Lucas' ignorant handling of the franchise and disrespectful treatment of the fanbase? Ah, so you made a fool of yourself, then.

    The EU was originally stated to be the continuation of Star Wars, part of a single universe with the movies, and was marketed as such. The hundreds upon thousands of dollars Star Wars has taken in from the sales of novels, comics, games, and sourcebooks are all based upon the premise that these exist within the official Star Wars universe. It's what we were told, it's what we expect. If said arrangement is not respected, then the people have indeed been lied to and their money taken under false pretenses.

    Among the many amusing things to come out of the controversy surrounding Mass Effect 3 and its original ending, was a complaint to the Better Business Bureau stating that the game had been sold under false advertising by promising a unique ending determined entirely by the player's significant choices, only to provide three minor variations of what was effectively a single ending, regardless of the choices players made. The Better Business Bureau agreed, and the situation that's presented itself here is quite similar. Lying to your consumer base is wrong, and people have every right to be pissed about it.
  22. Mange Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2003
    star 4
    No, George Lucas is not God but he is the creator of Star Wars. The EU-authors have been allowed to play in his sandbox and have gotten money for it, but ultimately Lucas is the King of the Hill. As much as I like certain aspects of the EU, I'd much rather see what GL envisions (whether it's better or worse).

    Also, George Lucas hasn't exactly kept his views on the EU a secret.
    Last edited by Mange, Oct 20, 2012
  23. hlc88 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    I like both... EU and TCW.

    In fact I am really looking forward to reading the 'Jabiim arc' again in the Omnibus edition. Both the EU and TCW have its positive and negatives. EU does well with a lot of other Jedi that are not Anakin and Obi-Wan, but the EU has done well with them too, however I certainly prefer TCW in terms of seeing their relationship depicted on screen.

    I can understand where the EU supporters are coming from but I do prefer my Star Wars to be on screen and I can see their points of view, but the EU isn't a large issue for me. I will continue to enjoy it regardless of what TCW does. I can love and enjoy both, and I am proud that I can support and enjoy both. I don't feel that I've wasted my money because a lot of the Dark Horse stuff has probably been rendered non-canon (we don't know for sure yet!) because if I can still enjoy it, why should I feel like that? For me, all the stuff I like about the EU happens in the first year of the Clone Wars, TCW begins after that. My own personal timeline of what happens is the best way to take these things. If you like aspects of both EU and TCW, put them together... there is no set rule where you have to follow the word of Lucasfilm. If you don't like TCW then ignore it (and by that I mean you are definitely NOT ignoring it when you bitch and complain about it all the time especially when you say you are ignoring it. That is the exact opposite of ignoring it.) Ditto for people who don't like the EU... in your own timeline, none of the stuff ever happened.

    Combine together the stuff you love from both to create your own definitive timeline. It's more fun and interesting that way :)
    FARK2005 and Valairy Scot like this.
  24. Darth_Harmon Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 4, 2005
    star 4
    Yeah, my reason for why I prefer the microseries and animated series to just about anything else CW related is very simple: To me Star Wars is in its truest form when it is on screen. The animated series especially, given that it shares an aspect ratio with the films, various actors (Anthony Daniels, Matthew Wood, Ahmed Best, and Sam Jackson and Christopher Lee (in the CW movie)) and often times feels indistinguishable from watching the movies. Lucas's connection with the series helps a lot too, as I think it's really something special to see stories that came from George's head. A true extension of the movies. I especially like episodes and arcs that serve as accompaniments to the movies. Like the Second Battle of Geonosis expanding on Attack of the Clones, the Maul arcs expanding on Phantom Menace, the Krell arc expanding on Revenge of the Sith, not to mention arcs and episodes that expand on OT characters and plot threads.
  25. EHT New Films Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2007
    star 6
    I definitely don't put the CW microseries or TCW on the same level as the six films of the Saga, but I do agree that SW just feels the most "right" for me when it's in a visual format. I do enjoy both animated series for the most part, but they both have real flaws that make them inferior to the films for me.

    I honestly can't really get into the EU. I don't play the games and I haven't read any of the SW comics. I have read a few novels, though: Labyrinth of Evil, Revenge of the Sith, Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader, Darth Plagueis, and the novelizations of ANH, TESB, and ROTJ. They were all decent (or quite good in a couple of cases), but they just don't feel as effective to me as the full visual and aural presentation of the films or TV series when it comes to SW and its stories, content, action, or motifs. I love reading, but I guess I just prefer it for things other than SW. Besides, the summaries I've read or heard about for many or maybe most of the EU novels outside of those I mentioned just really make them sound silly to me.

    Having said all that, I don't enjoy seeing people who do care a lot about the EU (such as the Clone Wars era comics) have the stories they care about get screwed up by TCW. For example, Adi Gallia... I never knew that Grievous killed her in a comic until I read people here talking about it. Once I knew that, I understood why they were upset, because it would have been easy for TCW to just have some other jedi get killed by Savage in Revival instead. There was no reason why it had to be her, so it was just kind of sloppy and also rude to those who knew and cared.
    Esg likes this.
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