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Why is it so important for those of you who are religious to convert others?

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Wormie2, Jan 16, 2002.

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  1. GreedoCMZ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 1999
    star 4
    I remember when I was seven years old driving down the 405 with my family and as we drove past South Coast Plaza I said, "Why are there millions of people outside of the theater there?" and my older brother said, "They are in line to see Star Wars."
  2. cydonia Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 5
    Cool. I've only been here for about 12 years, but that's the only place i go to see movies but those south coast theatres are pretty run down. That and the Big Newport, That's where i see all big movies, saw TPM there.
  3. GreedoCMZ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 1999
    star 4
    Yeah, I know what you mean. Those South Coast Plaza theaters were the fancy theaters in 1977. Edwards has this thing where they let all their theaters go to pot and then shut them down with the notable exception of the Big Newport, and they have to keep that one in good shape because Dennis Rodman lives so close (and I heard he's been seen there).
  4. cydonia Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 5
    The things we do for Rodman. I hear he's always getting busted in Newport for loud parties, and i'm little ticked i have yet to be invited.

    How you like all this So Cal talk, TreeCave?
  5. GreedoCMZ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 1999
    star 4
    I've often thought of just showing up at the Worm's house and seeing if anyone recognized I wasn't invited. They might not care. I hear it's almost a constant party but we'll see if the neighbors complaints put an end to that. And Kobe just moved in around there too, but I imagine his house is a good bit calmer.
  6. Ender Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 1998
    star 6
    We not making fun of George anymore? Can I go now?
  7. DarthSade Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2002
    The answer to this question is quite simple, especially for Christians: because Jesus himself told us to "go and make disciples of all people", and to "be perfect as the Father in Heaven is perfect.". The call to Sanctity and Apostolate is Universal, not reserved for priests, bishops, nuns, monks, pastors, parish workers, or the like. EVERYONE is called by God to be perfect in his or her own state and place in the world. Also, Genesis said that God created man "ut operaretur", "so that he would work". Therefore, ordinary work is the main area of sanctification for a Christian: we must sanctify our work, sanctify ourselves in our work and SANCTIFY OTHERS with our work. The ones who are nearer to us must not meet us in the paths of their lives without finding a reflection of Jesus in each of us.

    It's probably not so much a matter of "converting"; I, as a Roman Catholic, am perfectly OK with people having their own beliefs, however, I cannot accept that they don't strive to know, love and serve God in what they believe and what they do, because to "love thy neighbor" means "to desire GOOD for thy neighbor", and the only good which is everlasting and completely fulfilling is God Himself when we live with Him forever in Heaven.

    So, it's not a suggestion, it's an OBLIGATION of every Christian -Catholic or Protestant- to take those around him nearer to God. That doesn't mean we must impose our religious beliefs on them, but rather that we should try and point them to the truth with friendship and trust. Also, not everyone has a vocation to be a missionary or a preacher, so we go back to the concept of "finding (and taking others to find) God in work and ordinary life."
  8. GreedoCMZ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 1999
    star 4
    I guess that's a pretty good way to put it.
  9. Darth_SnowDog Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2001
    star 4
    I've found God. Of course if any doorknockers want to come and challenge me on that... be my guest. It would be my pleasure... Just be sure you bone up on the last 10,000 years of anthropology, human psychology, mythology and theology of all the world's major religions... or you might have a little difficult time not getting laughed out of my apartment for your arguments' lack of credibility.

    The rest of the world can believe what they want... I won't bother you since you don't bother me. It's all good. Om mani padme hum. Yabba-Dabba Doo. Scooby Snacks.
  10. cydonia Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 5
    You seem to know your stuff, snowdog.
  11. Obi-Zahn Kenobi Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 1999
    star 7
    Please stop stereotyping Mormons.

    I don't appreciate it.

    Back on topic people.

    And they say if we don't quit this! They'll send Jehovah's Witness to Afghan ghan ghan, Afghanistan!
  12. TreeCave Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2001
    star 4
    JediMaster201, I don't see you as proseletyzing. I do take issue with the way you utterly dismissed everything that's not Christian as worshipping man, because I think it's incredibly inaccurate. But I didn't take offense at it, either.

    And you said I had flamed earlier - I can't apologize for saying what I think, because I value honesty above politeness or even being correct (I prefer to deal with honest bigots than those who pretend to be "politically correct", for example). But I can reiterate that I respect your views and the right of everyone here to have a view that disagrees with mine, and if my words ever come across as disrespectful, that's not what I intended.

    Greedo and Cydonia, you are driving me MAD. EERGH!!!!! If anyone wants to donate to the "Help TreeCave move back to Los Angeles" fund, I will send you details. Hey, it may not be a worthy cause, but at least I'm not deceptively hiding behind 9-11 like some "funds" and "charities" did. Besides, those of you who don't like me - think about it: don't all freaks like me belong in Los Angeles? Come on, you know you think so! ;)

    That said, I lived three minutes from TBN when it was headquartered in Hendersonville, TN (just outside Nashville). They had really gawdy lights and decorations that made the worst Elvis freak in the worst trailer park in the Ozarks look refined and tasteful. Every year at Christmas, they shaved "Happy Birthday, Jesus" into the lawn. And that stuff can't have been cheap. I don't mean to judge anyone, but I do not get the feeling these people are sincere Christians. (cha-ching!)

    DarthSade... any relation to the singer? LOL. What you're describing is fine with me. You're not harrassing strangers on the street. I have had that happen to me.

    By the way, folks, if you ever get stopped by a weirdo on the street who grabs you, hoping to embarrass you in front of others around, and demands, "Have you been saved?", the quickest way to shut them up is to give them a reproachful look and say, "Yes" as if the person has committed a crime by even suggesting you might not have been. This always works in my experience.

    And another good one - if you ever somehow find yourself near an anti-abortion protest and any of the protestors decide to yell at you about "adoption's the option" even though you clearly are not pregnant nor are you going into a clinic or anything (they get over-excited), just yell back, "Right, how many unwanted babies have YOU adopted?" That'll shut them up fast. Not that I don't respect anti-abortion views - I just don't tolerate protestors of any sort bothering me when I didn't even mean to be there.

    Geez, the forms of self-defense one has to learn growing up in the Bible belt.
  13. Cailina Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 1999
    star 4
    Darth_SnowDog I just wanted to commend you for your post on the previous page. I completely agree with you about religions coming from one source however you said it more eloquently than I have been able to. I did not know that about the "YHWH" translating so similarly to the Hindu text though. Very interesting.
  14. cydonia Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 5
    I remember at high school they would often have anti-abortion people waiting for the students on the lawn after class, handing out flyers of what abortions look like, it really upset me that they just had no problems showing teenagers photos like that. Seriously, pro or anti, that's just wrong.
  15. GreedoCMZ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 1999
    star 4
    Why'd you ever leave, TreeCave? I left to live in Hawaii for a while.
  16. Darth_SnowDog Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2001
    star 4
    Thanks Cailina. It gets even weirder because there are more interconnections between the Indo-Aryan and Hebrew-originated belief systems than most people are aware of.

    Of course, I'm not going to discuss them openly in this thread for fear I might get stoned by resident fundamentalists...
  17. Coolguy4522 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2000
    star 4
    To the topic, politics arn't competing with religion. As for evidence of athiesm being taught in schools, you don't have to look very hard. "Science" isn't nearly as well proven as you like to think. There are still quite a few holes, and in schools teachers like to present things as absolutes.
  18. 1stAD Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2001
    star 5
    Simply put, school teachers are too poorly equipped to really teach students what exactly science is. Science will NEVER provide any absolutes, nor does it intend to. That is it's strength and it's weakness.
  19. leia393 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2001
    star 4
    Being a Christian, I know why some Christians are very big on converting. It's because part of Christianity is spreading the Good News with both Jews and Gentiles (Gentiles are everyone that aren't Jewish. I mean no disrespect to anyone by using the word "Gentile." Actually, ethnicly I'm a Gentile who became a Christian.)
  20. Ender Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 1998
    star 6
    To the topic, politics arn't competing with religion.

    Neither is atheism. Only in your mind is this occuring. Only in the Christian mind this seems to occur. You don't hear Hindus or any another religion for that matter going on about atheism like you do Christians.


    As for evidence of athiesm being taught in schools, you don't have to look very hard. "Science" isn't nearly as well proven as you like to think. There are still quite a few holes, and in schools teachers like to present things as absolutes.

    *rolls eyes*

    Better get off the internet then as you are practicing my religion.

    Sorry, atheism doesn't equal science. Science is the study and observation of the natural world. It doesn't address whether there is or isn't a god. There is no mathematical equation or theory disproving god.
  21. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    1stAD: "Simply put, school teachers are too poorly equipped to really teach students what exactly science is. "

    What the hell is that supposed to mean?

    Coolguy: When we teach science, we don't teach "atheism". We don't teach religion at all when we teach science; if we taught that the Christian God created the world in seven days, we would be discriminating against students of other religions. You can't teach any religious belief as absolute truth in public school. We're here to serve everyone, Christian or non-Christian.

    As far as my personal beliefs on the subject, I am able to reconcile the evidence I have seen that creation took millions of years with the Biblical story of creation taking seven days. I don't believe that a "day" to God is equal to twenty-four hours. The order that things appeared on earth is compatible with the first creation story in the Bible--it just took longer than seven 24-hour days.

    Darth_Snowdog: Regarding your point about interconnections between religions: one thing I discovered in my period of religious experimentation is that every religion appears to have some of the same basics: a creation story, a salvation story, a version of the Creed and the Ten Commandments. The short version of the Wiccan Rede, "As it harm none, do as ye will," is very similar to the Golden Rule, and Zen Buddhism has eight rules for living which are very similar to the Ten Commandments--don't lie, don't steal, don't murder, etc. I believe a person has to develop a relationship with his or her own Higher Power, and I have found my Higher Power in the Christian God. While I like to share the joy I have found in my religious faith with others, I know that forcing my religion on anyone is not a way to give them that same joy. I had to find it on my own, and I believe other people do too. That I leave up to God. For that reason, you won't catch me handing out pamphlets or beating any doors down. Just my opinion though.
  22. TreeCave Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2001
    star 4
    Cydonia, " it really upset me that they just had no problems showing teenagers photos like that. Seriously, pro or anti, that's just wrong. "

    I agree! These are probably the same people who scorn violent and grotesque images in movies, but they're not above using images of gore to make their point.

    Greedo, I left L.A. because I was well-paid but still couldn't afford a new car (even a decent used one) or a house, or anything, and the cost of living was spiraling upward, and I thought I'd be adult, suck it up, and move somewhere crappy that I could afford. Little did I know, the cost-of-living/salary ratio is WORSE everywhere else in the country. So I might as well be barely surviving in a place that's at least nice, eh?

    Coolguy, science is not atheism. What do you mean when you give science as an example of teaching atheism in schools? That's like saying because some singer never mentioned God in any of her songs, she must be an atheist. And by the way, only a fool could fail to notice that all scientific theories get either altered or completely thrown out if you wait around long enough. Science isn't about answers, it's about a method for seeking them.
  23. Darth_SnowDog Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2001
    star 4
    I have a lot of respect for Christians like you, anakin_girl.

    :D

    Too bad more people don't understand this is the key difference between Christ and Christianity... that he practiced a hell of a lot more than he preached, which is why most people think his righteousness is unattainable. I mean how can they, when they don't seem to comprehend that setting an example makes the greatest impression... far more than any sales pitch.

    As for "going out and spreading the word"... well, someone tell me where in the Bible does it precisely outline that one has to involve doorknockers, multimillion-dollar church amphitheaters, televangelists in expensive suits... or at the very least... people who think that you'll willingly, and freely, adopt their beliefs if they scare you into it. That, pardon me for saying, is about the stupidest conversion tactic anyone... except perhaps the world's dumbest used car salesman... would ever employ.

    Unfortunately, some people are just that gullible... and, well, if it comforts you that you'll be surrounded in Heaven by gullible sheep... hey, I'm glad you have them... because you'll never convince me with fearmongering and egocentrism.
  24. TreeCave Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2001
    star 4
    Er, I just noticed the way I phrased the following may have sounded like I was insulting people here: "And by the way, only a fool could fail to notice that all scientific theories get either altered or completely thrown out if you wait around long enough."

    Allow me to clarify. There are indeed far too many people who quote current scientific theory as the be-all, end-all. These people are as dogmatic and religious about their science as any religious zealot could be about his beliefs. And I'm not just talking big theories like evolution.... remember in the early 80's (ok, most of you won't, but take my word) "They" reported that suntanning was great for curing internal cancer. Then, a few years later, "Whoops, it cures internal cancer, but rots your skin off with skin cancer".

    "They" - the infamous and disturbingly unnamed experts people go around mindlessly quoting (like some poorly translated Bible verse they don't understand properly) - constantly tell us sketchy results from half-completed studies. "They" research with the intent of finding the answers the folks funding them want to hear.

    Kids in school need to be taught that HONEST science is an extremely valuable, worthy endeavor. But science pursued with a narrow focus and the goal of finding specific results is as dangerous as any religon gone awry could be.

    So, as thie applies to evolution.... I was taught it's a compelling theory, it fits a great deal of evidence. And there are aspects of it (adaptations via mutation in fruit flies, for example) that we can actually observe in a proper scientific setting. But you can't prove evolution, because it happens on too big a scale for us to really observe under controlled situations.

    This led me to assume there is probably at the very least SOMETHING to the theories of evolution, but they may well be slightly off-track (like Einstein proved Newton to be, and now quantum physics and chaos theory are apparently proving Einstein to be). They may even be hugely off-track, but they just fit too much of the available evidence not to at least be of help in figuring out what's really going on, if not evolution.

    For anyone to say, "Evolution is true, proven, right" as opposed to "I believe in it" or "There's so much evidence that supports it".... well, that's as silly as someone saying, "Jesus is definitely the only way to salvation" as opposed to saying, "According to my beliefs, Jesus is the only way to salvation."

    By the way, I could go on about the dogma of science for DAYS. I took a "history of science" course in college, and it was fascinating beyond belief. Instead of really studying the science in depth, we focused on the people involved, the competing theories, who was funding what, and which theories emerged and which ones died, and who got credit vs. who did the work (burns me up that people still credit Crick and Warson with DNA). True science is akin to soul-searching and wisdom-seeking, but science riddled with politics is disheartening.
  25. Jedi_Master201 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 5, 2001
    star 5
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