Why is pornography considered a degrading thing?

I'd say reproduction is the big reason for sex, wouldn't you?

 

That's assuming its meant to be used a certain way.

With the exception of dolphins, we're the only species that has sex for pleasure. What that has to do with anything, I don't know, but it is a good point for having sex for pleasure.

 

I just had an image of the Simpsons episode in which Dolphins marched onto the land and kicked all of the people into the ocean. It was something about how Dolphins, LONG ago, were once land animals and then the humans cast them away into the ocean. Now they are back for revenge! Funny stuff.

Maybe their desire for "sexual pleasure" is a result of their once living with humans?



In all seriousness, I'm not convinced that dolphins have sex for pleasure rather than solely for their natural urge for reproduction.

 

There is a difference between a reason to have sex and there being a certain meanng to sex.

 

Indeed. But that has nothing to do with this.

 

Fire, my position -- once again -- is that sex within marriage is not only morally permissible but actually to be encouraged.

To say that my position is that all sex is immoral is not an exaggeration. It's an outright lie.

If you cannot see it as such, I must wonder how far you've exaggerated, in your own mind, the definition of "honesty."


Your argument that "repression, suppression, and oppression of natural human feelings" is a bad thing falls on at least four fronts.

First, for every Swaggert, there is a Mother Theresa. You can't point to causality because it's simply not true that every human who controls their own sexual urges eventually lashes out in some sort of perversion.

Second, I can point out plenty of people who have let their "natural human feelings" have control and have committed serious acts of inhumanity, and they are now serving time for rape and other acts of sexual assault.

Third, society has become increasingly less "repressed" and yet the stats for sex crimes have not decreased.

Finally, you seem to object to child molestation, but I'm not sure how you can support the "repression" of pedophilic desires since repression is apparently so devoutly to be avoided.


You suggest that porn causes no harm. I think it does: it objectifies other people, turning them into mere animals to be used for one's own pleasure.


And, I think you move from an argument about morality to one about legality. I have not argued here that pornography should be made illegal. I simply think that it is ultimately immoral. I can see the position that one should let consenting adults do what they like, even if their acts are immoral.

 

And, I think you move from an argument about morality to one about legality. I have not argued here that pornography should be made illegal. I simply think that it is ultimately immoral. I can see the position that one should let consenting adults do what they like, even if their acts are immoral.

I can accept porn being legal but ONLY if it is kept from mainstream media. It's bad enough that it is so easily accessible on the internet (I once did a search for geology of all things for a college class and I actually had some porn sites appear. WTH is that about? ) but to have it become mainstream on public television is unacceptible.

 

Fire, my position -- once again -- is that sex within marriage is not only morally permissible but actually to be encouraged.

That?s good, but that?s not the reality of the situation. Monogamy is a lie you know? Created by society. Now that?s not to say go out and bang the first lady like a storm door that you meet. But it is the truth of the matter. Studies have shown that the only two monogamous animals in the animal kingdom are Vultures and a tape worm that lives in a pig?s stomach. Species that are monogamous tend to die out. Now that?s not the case for humans, at the moment, but later on down the road it could be. That?s why men lust after women other than their wives. It?s a genetic trait that?s been hardwired into our bodies for quite a long time. So you?re given a choice, go watch a porn and masturbate and don?t cheat on your wife or you go cheat on your wife. What would you choose? And keep in mind that this question has no third option. Infidelity or porn? Take your pick.

To say that my position is that all sex is immoral is not an exaggeration. It's an outright lie.

I did not say that you thought it. It?s an exaggeration of your position that all sex outside of marriage is wrong. You can quibble over the intricacies of an exaggeration in a PM if you wish. But that is the truth.

If you cannot see it as such, I must wonder how far you've exaggerated, in your own mind, the definition of "honesty."

3 entries found for exaggeration.
ex?ag?ger?ate ( P ) Pronunciation Key (g-zj-rt)
v. ex?ag?ger?at?ed, ex?ag?ger?at?ing, ex?ag?ger?ates
v. tr.
To represent as greater than is actually the case; overstate: exaggerate the size of the enemy force; exaggerated his own role in the episode.
To enlarge or increase to an abnormal degree: thick lenses that exaggerated the size of her eyes.

What part did you not get?

Your argument that "repression, suppression, and oppression of natural human feelings" is a bad thing falls on at least four fronts.

I never claimed to be right, and if I?m wrong then so be it. That?s my prerogative.

First, for every Swaggert, there is a Mother Theresa. You can't point to causality because it's simply not true that every human who controls their own sexual urges eventually lashes out in some sort of perversion.

What you see as control I see as a mental defect. If you?re actively trying to suppress something you cannot control, that?s not healthy. It?s also not healthy to act cruelly to any life form, but that?s another debate. Sexual urges are not something that can easily be controlled since you?re born with this instinct to have sex. Yes, some people see sex as nothing more than pleasing themselves and that?s healthy too. As long as you have a consenting partner. In Swaggart?s case, and what I?ve noticed in most Judeo-Christian/Islamic faiths is that they actively go against the very thing they?re for, nature. Sure it?s a fine way of life if you can do it, but for most people that?s impossible. That?s why some catholic priests become pedophiles, and why some very devout people are closet perverts. And it?s not that these people are inherently screwed up, it?s that they go against their own natural instincts as animals (what species are you from? I?m a mammal). So yes, it?s wrong that people become pedophiles, and it?s wrong that they act on it. But when you try to ?control? how you?re supposed to feel (no sex before marriage, etc.etc.) you?re going to have some screwed up people.

Second, I can point out plenty of people who have let their "natural human feelings" have control and have committed serious acts of inhumanity, and they are now serving time for rape and other acts of sexual assault.

Rape is not about sex, it?s about control. Molestation isn?t about sex so much as it?s about control as well, and maybe some sex (these men are hetero after all). That?s not to excuse what they?ve done, but those are base causes. And that?s not ?natural human feelings? that is what you

 

My choice in the upcoming election is Bush.

 

I'm sorry.

Vezner:

I'd say reproduction is the big reason for sex, wouldn't you?

Some folks don't want kids or can't have them, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't have sex, nor is it fair to deny these folks sex, especially married folks.

Reproduction is not "the" big reason for sex. It's pleasure and sharing an experience with a partner.

 

Bubba_the_Genius: ?define what you mean by "defining" and I might provide a definition of "healthy." Or are you being obtuse?

The level of my respect for you wanes of late. My question is legitimate. You are (apparently) claiming that pornography is ?un-healthy??I?m asking you to define what you mean when you employ the word ?healthy.? ?Healthy? to whom (the church, the government, the psychological profession?who?), and in what context (spiritual health, societal health, psychological health ?what)?

Watching pornography to any degree is a mark of obsessing over sex?

To quote you: ?you are out of your mind if you genuinely believe this.?



I would like to see independent support of this claim, please. Or are we simply to believe that yours is the definitive word on the subject?

?society has become increasingly less "repressed" and yet the stats for sex crimes have not decreased.

So?your point is?? Are you trying to suggest that there is a link to pornography here? If so, state it... or drop it.

Vezner: Sex isn't bad as long as it is used the way it was meant to be. Through marriage and for "replenishing the Earth"? I'd say reproduction is the?reason for sex?

Ah, and now we have an expert on the meaning of sex. To pose a hypothetical situation to you: If the actors involved in pornography were all married to their on-screen partners, and were having unprotected sex with the understanding that a pregnancy very well might result from their actions, you would then have no problem with pornography?right?

 

I'd say reproduction is the big reason for sex, wouldn't you?

Infertile couples should therefore abstain from having sex.

 

Ok, I'm going to provide some sources that back up my claims. Not that many of you will who like your porn will take them seriously but I would encourage you to at least give them a look.

This is a list of various articles related to porn addiction and its negative effects

Here's another one that I find interesting.

Kimball is a wise man. Google really is your friend!

EDIT:
Also, for those of you who don't bother to read the previous pages of a thread, here is what I believe and I base my beliefs on the studies that I have read:

IMHO porn is bad because of what it can lead to. It seems to me that adultery, out of wedlock child birth, sexual abuse, rape, sexual slavery, and STDs (including HIV) all seem to be on the rise in the world now days (not just in America). I blame the increasing accessibility of porn on the internet and in other sources (like Satelite TV and magazines).

Some people claim that seeing that stuff is just a fantasy and nothing more. They say "where's the harm if you aren't involved in any other way other than watching?" Well IMO some people can't separate fantasy from reality (porn and sex are only one aspect of this and I freely admit that, but it doesn't justify the use or legality of porn) and thus when they see a fantasy occur on their computer, magazine, or on TV it only increases their desire to act on that fantasy because they begin to consider it to be normal.

Finally, kids in Junior High or High school (OR SOMETIMES EVEN YOUNGER!) have started to blatantly have sex at a younger and younger age. This has only caused more babies to be born that have no stable home to raise them in. Thus they grow up in poor conditions and have no positive future to look forward to. The parents have not lived long enough to know how to properly raise a child or even have enough education accumulated to get a proper job. They simply are not able to provide a good life for the child because they haven't grown up yet themselves. IMO this is why gang problems are on the rise. Children like this, that grow up in broken down homes, turn to gangs for the kind of support that they need or want. Thus crime is on the rise.

In short, porn = chaos and the degredation of society. It should be, and I pray to God that it stays, illegal. If I had it my way the porn industry would be shut down entirely. But alas, I'm not the one in charge. But I will continue to voice my opposition to porn because I refuse to ignore the problems that it causes.

Oh, and finally, it's morally wrong too. But saying the "M" word around here sometimes leads to nothing but a flame war, which I'm sure my post will do anyway.

I'm a Christian (LDS to be more specific) and because the scriptures tell us that sexual immorality is evil, it is no surprise to me to see its destructive influence on society. God isn't an idiot you know and he gave us commandments for a reason. For our own welfare and benefit.

Porn is addicting and is a menace to society. Don't kid yourself into believing otherwise.

 

As Bubba has stated, and not in these terms, exceptions to the rule are not the rule.

 

If someone could prove, beyond a shadow of doubt that pornography turned people into violent rapists with no respect for women, I'd say ban it. Just like if someone could prove that playing violent video games turned you into a mass murderer, I'd agree with banning them too.

It's not proven because it isn't responsible.

 

You can't prove that since rapist's motivations are already known. It's about control and feeling powerful when you're not.

 

Vezner: But do you believe that the only reason people should have sex is to reproduce?

 

perosnally, i dont think porn is a degrading thing. i think what keeps it from being degrading is respect. if two people are having sex in a respectful manner, then why not?

without sex, none of us would be here.

 

And without porn, Star Wars geeks wouldn't know what a naked body looks like. Three cheers for porn!

 

I've seen a lot of naked bodies, but still...

FIDo:

 

Exceptions are not the rule. We geeks get a lot of flak for being virgins.

 

But do you believe that the only reason people should have sex is to reproduce?

I agree with you in that sex is not only there for reproduction but also to bring a couple closer together in love. But I don't think that people who are not married, or at the very least STRONGLY committed to each other, should have sex because of the reasons that I have stated above. To have sex with anyone that is willing is irresponsible at best.

 

Fire, I strongly disagree on the idea that "monogamy is a lie." Ours is not merely a choice between porn and infidelity: a man can be faithful to one woman in both his actions and his thoughts.

Is it difficult? Sure, especially now with a culture that all but promotes promiscuity as the norm, but it's not impossible, particularly with divine help.


I do agree that we are animals, but we are not merely animals. We also have souls and free will and the ability to reason, and we deserve the dignity of being independent individuals.

To treat other humans as merely animals is to deny their intellectual and spiritual aspects. It is to dehumanize them. It is immoral.

You surely do not think that you're merely an animal, otherwise you wouldn't be attempting a semi-civil discussion such as this one. To consider yourself as more than an animal (and we all do this) while not affording the same consideration to all other humans is to assume a position of superiority: it is the sin of pride.


Space_Man, if you honestly think that porn is nothing more than documenting human behavior in an entertaining fashion -- a human version of a Discovery Channel wildlife documentary -- then I really cannot bring myself to care whether you've lost respect for me.

 

Fire, I strongly disagree on the idea that "monogamy is a lie." Ours is not merely a choice between porn and infidelity: a man can be faithful to one woman in both his actions and his thoughts.

Yes, but every man has stray thoughts running around. But the scenario of the question wasn't designed to have a third response or being faithful to his wife in thought and actions. A regular person that's never had any religious indoctrination or anything just one day wants a different partner; he can't dump his girlfriend because then if she knows anyone he knows he becomes the bad guy. He can either have fantasies while watching porn ,which will probably make him want his girlfriend again or he could sleep with another woman on the side, hey, she'll never know, and if she does he's a man, he'll come out on top. So which option is worse and detrimental? This is a crap scenario, but some people do have to make choices and there isn't always a third option if you're not thinking clearly.

Is it difficult? Sure, especially now with a culture that all but promotes promiscuity as the norm, but it's not impossible, particularly with divine help.

I'll give you a tip, not everyone listens to pop culture. Nor does it focus entirely upon sex, there's also violence, food, and fast cars. Sex is on the waning end of things after the 40 year old breast incident.


I do agree that we are animals, but we are not merely animals. We also have souls and free will and the ability to reason, and we deserve the dignity of being independent individuals.


If that's how you wish to look at it, fair enough, I take a more realistic approach of not having anything divine say what happens.


To treat other humans as merely animals is to deny their intellectual and spiritual aspects. It is to dehumanize them. It is immoral.

! Really? No it doesn't, it means that there's nothing special about humans. How is this immoral? Are our intellects so fragile that we need to think we're "god's chosen" species? 'ehh...whatever floats your boat, dude.

You surely do not think that you're merely an animal, otherwise you wouldn't be attempting a semi-civil discussion such as this one.

Hmm..a few points: 1) Animals aren't savage needlessly, they become that way through defense mechanisms and hunger, 2) Yes i do think I'm just an animal, just as you're just an animal as well. The difference between us an other animals is our awareness of the world around us. To animals there is no grander purpose to their lives. They run off of instinct. So do we, but we've mastered a bit more control over ours.


To consider yourself as more than an animal (and we all do this) while not affording the same consideration to all other humans is to assume a position of superiority: it is the sin of pride.

I consider myself no less and no more an animal than my cat. I know my cat's a bit lesser than I am, but he's still an animal, a mammal, just as I am. So yeah, no pride here. I do so love sins, they're fun, just the status quo of the majority is all they are to me.

 

Really? No it doesn't, it means that there's nothing special about humans. How is this immoral? Are our intellects so fragile that we need to think we're "god's chosen" species?

I'm with FIDo on this one. I think we are meant to share the Earth with other creatures, not lord over them. I definitely don't think we're any better than they are--in fact, I think in a lot of ways, we're worse.