Why is public voting for moderators not viable? (A plan)

Discussion in 'Communications' started by jediguy, Sep 19, 2002.

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Moderators: JoinTheSchwarz, LAJ_FETT, Ramza
  1. jediguy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 10, 2000
    star 5
    "Normally mods are very good at noticing who will make a good mod, while general posters we will tend to vote our friends in. Its just how human nature works"

    So, basically, you're saying that most of us do not care enough about the place to be disciplined in voting and nominating?
  2. LadyVader81 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2001
    star 6
    I am going to regret this. But from the majority of the posts I've seen yes. There are too many people that are either power hungry or would not know what would make a good mod.

    Sometimes you have to be strict on people to get your job done, I know this because I've been and am a mod in a few places. You can not always please everyone. There is always going to be someone upset by what you do.
  3. StarFire Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2001
    star 4
    There are no benefits to being a mod, other than the "prestige." The administration has no agenda; there are good moderators and there are bad ones. As a whole, they represent a vested interest in maintaining a friendly environment on these boards. The interest obviously extends to selecting new moderators to the best of their ability.

    I realize that the non-mod members are just as dedicated to maintaining a friendly environment, but what does members voting for moderators really accomplish? It's the ultimate popularity contest. Votes will be traded back and forth like bad jokes. Since popularity and maturity don't necessarily come together (heck, some people are popular because they're immature), what kind of people would emerge as moderators? Not numbskulls. But would they be the best people for the job?

    Would the system really improve the types of moderators in the administration or would it serve as an "opiate of the masses"?

    Some obvious concerns include voter fraud, backscratching, and the nature and basis of each member's nominations and votes.

    The major benefit to members voting for moderations is that members are given some control over who enters the administration. But how many "bad apples" can anybody spot from the beginning? I doubt the members can do any better than the administration. It seems to me that we should be discussing a system for allowing members more power or voice in deciding whether some moderators should stay in the administration, not whether they should enter it.
  4. Southernjedi Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2002
    star 4
    Please bear with me. I'm reasonably new to the JC (about two and a half months), but I wonder about the tension between mods and the rest of the JC. Although I'm relatively new, I haven't noticed any problems with the mods.

    Sitting back, waiting to be flamed.
  5. citizen-tom Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
    Why would you be flamed ?[face_plain]
  6. Southernjedi Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2002
    star 4
    For showing my ignorance of this part of the JC?

    It's happened before.

    Edit: While there is a tendency to flame at times, the JC is remarkably civil. Compare it to AOL discussions, and.....there is no comparison. The powers that be seem to do a good job of keeping order. I left AOL chat rooms long, long ago due to the chaos.
  7. LadyVader81 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2001
    star 6
    I find alot of people who have trouble with admin (not saying on here just from past experience) is because from either of two things they want to be mod so try to get the mod into trouble to show themselves as being "better" for the position.

    The other is that they just do not get on personally. If it was a normal poster you just wouldn't speak to them but because they are in a position of power the person will always try to undermime the mod because of this rather than just not speak to them.
  8. jedi-mind-trick VIP

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2001
    star 5
    A couple of problems with the proposed voting of moderators:

    1. Socks.
    2. Just because a memeber is popular with the users does not mean they would make a good moderator.

    Just my thoughts. :)
  9. Ariana Lang Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 10, 1999
    star 5
    I don't feel comfortable with that. I think that will turn into a popularity contest, instead of choosing who is best for the job.
  10. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 9
    Perhaps one way to look at it would be:

    Some popular users would be good moderators (for reasons other than popularity), but not all good moderators are popular (before their promotions. The administration finds people of both kinds.

  11. Southernjedi Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2002
    star 4
    I agree with Mind Trick. Socks would pose a problem.

    And I can just see the campaigning now.
  12. Ariana Lang Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 10, 1999
    star 5
    I just worry that it would turn into a political campaign. People PMing "Vote for me" or worse -- IMing where it can't be tracked. And I think alot of potential jerks could be elected into office just because they have enough of a "posse" behind them who will vote for them. I think it's dangerous.
  13. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 9
    There are, of course, politics that go on right now, but it would be far less than the campaigns and politicking we would see if public voting became a reality. I thought StarFire outlined that problem rather well in his post.
  14. LadyVader81 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2001
    star 6
    Either way some people are not going to be happy, but the way it works now is the best option. In my opinion anyway :)
  15. KitFist0 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 10, 2001
    star 4
    You mean that they are politics right now for becoming a mod. I thought that if you said you wanted to become a mod you become red listed ?
  16. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 9
    You mean that they are politics right now for becoming a mod. I thought that if you said you wanted to become a mod you become red listed ?

    Not quite sure what you mean. Could you explain a bit more?
  17. KitFist0 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 10, 2001
    star 4
    People campaign to become a mod ?
  18. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 9
    Okay, I got that part, but what about "red listed"? I didn't understand that.

    I'd say people can indirectly campaign to become admins, but not like you could with a public voting system. It's usually pretty easy to tell who is obviously trying to become a moderator, and who has people's support.

  19. Herman Snerd Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 1999
    star 6
    I believe that KitFist0 is referring to the supposed rule that asking to become a mod is the quickest way to never becoming one. (Edit: It should probably say "blacklisted")

    While I certainly like the idea of members having input in mod selections, I can't see a feasible way to make it work. There's just too many ways to screw with the voting. Of course many will be serious and thoughtful with their selections, but in this case it will be the few who mess with the system that spoil it all.

    While it isn't perfect, the current manner of selection seems to do a good job most of the time.

    And as it's already been stated:

    1. Popularity doesn't mean a person would be a good moderator.

    2. Wanting the job doesn't mean a person would be a good moderator.

    3. Being selected by the current administration doesn't mean a person would be a good moderator.

    4. Pointing out how much one 'cares' doesn't mean a person would be a good moderator.

    5. Post count doesn't mean a person would be a good moderator.

    6. Registration date doesn't mean a person would be a good moderator.


    Basically it all boils down to whether you behave yourself and happen to catch the eye of someone nominally in charge of this place. There are gonna be worthy members who get overlooked just as there are brown nosers who get picked.

    That's just the way things are.
  20. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 9
    Thanks, Herman :). Makes sense now.

  21. Jedi Greg Maddux Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 1999
    star 6
    Having ordinary members choosing the new mods is like having the blind leading the blind, unfortunately.

    I like your idea, Mik, but I think if there is to be an "election" then there should be an appointed electoral college where the mods pick maybe a dozen or fifteen qualified members to vote for the next mod. A simple majority, say, 70% or whatever, determines the next mod(s).

    I know it won't happen, but it's an idea nonetheless.

    GO 'CLONES!

  22. Red_Oktobur Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2001
    star 6
    I can see it now.



    "Vote BARRY 4 mod!"
    "Frie teh SPORKU! MAEK HM A MODE!!111"
    "YodaoftheSith. I will make you proud."
    "vote for me for mod, and i won't let you down."


    [face_plain]





    ...and a Jango
  23. Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2001
    star 6
    I am going to regret this. But from the majority of the posts I've seen yes. There are too many people that are either power hungry or would not know what would make a good mod.

    Very true. Though there are some smart and mature people on the boards who would vote wisely, I don't have enough faith in the community as a whole to be able to carry out a public election.
  24. MariahJade2 Former Fan Fiction Archive Editor

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2001
    star 5
    I think the majority of reasons against public voting have already been stated. What hasn't been suggested is an application process like other postitions require. Why leave it up to Mod's and Admins to try to sift through the boards to notice potential candidates? Why not create a test and an application process and then you can sift through that first, plus if anyone you have noticed applies, then all well and good. This way you might also get someone that was missed and not picked up by the subjective evaluation, but still a worthy candidate. This could remove some of the questions regarding "popularity" picks.
  25. Melyanna Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 2001
    star 4
    All of the points brought up here as to the impracticalities of this have been excellent, and I second them.

    There's another really good reason for letting the mods pick new mods instead of letting it out to a public vote. The mods and admins know more about what kind of person really qualifies for the job more than us regular members do. Yes, we all know that if you're a good member, contribute to the community, help out the newbies and the mods, and keep your shoes polished, you could be considered to become a mod. However, there are other things that mods need to be able to do (yes, I'm drawing from experience at other sites) - they need to be able to work together, and some people, while perfectly capable of being helpful, cheerful members of the community, don't do the whole teamwork thing very well.

    Yes, I'm sure that the general populace would be able to vote in a good mod occasionally, even most of the time - but we've had enough trouble with bad mods for a while. Let the administration deal with their problems themselves unless they ask for our help specifically (such as KW's suggestion that you talk to a mod about who you think would make a good mod) - chances are that they know more about the situation than we do anyway.

    Mel
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