Why is public voting for moderators not viable? (A plan)

Discussion in 'Communications' started by jediguy, Sep 19, 2002.

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  1. AmazingB Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2001
    star 7
    One where there will be calls of "We promoted him, we should be able to demote him".

    We should be able to demote him, if we chose him. Just like impeachments and such.

    Firstly, it is still going to be a popularity vote in the end between whichever users are on that list.

    I think calling it a popularity vote is a copout, no matter how the system is run. Everything is a popularity vote in some sense. And I'm sure every mod promotion that has ever happened could be spun in such a way that it looks like a popularity vote.

    Worse still, this creates a very awkward situation for users who may not get selected to be admins later on. Maybe this is just my opinion, but I would rather not know that I was once considered to be an admin, than to know that I was considered and it was felt that I did not have the required capabilities.

    I'd like to think if someone is mature enough to be up for mod consideration, they wouldn't feel slighted in the least at not being chosen.

    Whatever happens, there will be politics, there will be rigging of polls, but worse still, it may just split the JC up. And I think that the bottom line is to avoid that.

    Again, I'm sure people could argue that the JC is already split.

    jediguy, in one of his earliest posts in this thread asked that the idea itself rather than the technicalites be criticized. I'm generally curious to hear a response from the admins to this question: If everything was perfect, if no politicking took place, if a popular vote wasn't an issue, if people would nominate quality candidates rather than friends, if the polls couldn't be rigged, if there were none of those side issues at all, would the idea of public voting be implemented or even seriously considered? And kindly avoid answers like "we can't answer that question, since everything isn't perfect" as that, too, is a copout.

    Amazing.
  2. Kadue Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 20, 2000
    star 5
    jediguy, in one of his earliest posts in this thread asked that the idea itself rather than the technicalites be criticized. I'm generally curious to hear a response from the admins to this question: If everything was perfect, if no politicking took place, if a popular vote wasn't an issue, if people would nominate quality candidates rather than friends, if the polls couldn't be rigged, if there were none of those side issues at all, would the idea of public voting be implemented or even seriously considered? And kindly avoid answers like "we can't answer that question, since everything isn't perfect" as that, too, is a copout.

    I can not speak for anyone else, but if there were none of the side issues at all that have been mentioned, then yes, I would seriously be considering this. I said as much in my first post, but not as clearly.

    But (come on, you knew it was coming), those side issues can not be ignored. I'd like to think that had certain things not happened over the years in regards to SW fandom over the internet, that there would not be the charged atmosphere that there is in relation to the running of sites and boards, and the competition that is now inherent between said groups. It is a shame, but it is not something that can be rectified overnight, if at all due to too much pride of many different people being on the line. While those things exist, while there is an illusion of power that seems to come with all of this, and while there is so much drama and politics involved with the simple running of a message board, the practicalities have to be considered.
  3. yodaboy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2001
    star 5
    I have often thought about such a system for the JC, I think your way of doing it would be great, as long as the 3rd stage could be reasonably secured.
  4. AmazingB Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2001
    star 7
    "But (come on, you knew it was coming), those side issues can not be ignored."

    Of course they can't. I wasn't suggesting they should be. At least I don't think I was. If I was, it wasn't my intent. I was just curious about how things would be in an ideal setting.

    Amazing.
  5. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    In an ideal setting popular voting requires an informed populous.

    This is not the case on a message board where evn if they info is there most members don't care or don't bother to search it out.

    Even if we had a perfect way of voting vote, and making sure people only voted once, we have no way to make people educate themselves on board issues and no way of making sure people who don't give a damn don't vote.
  6. Smuggler-of-Mos-Espa Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2002
    star 6
    I also think public moderator voting is nessisarry.
  7. xie Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 5
    1. Socks.
    2. Just because a memeber is popular with the users does not mean they would make a good moderator.


    Actually J-M-T, socks wouldn't be a problem, unless users here got AMAZINGLY crafty.

    I don't know if I'm allowed to say, like if this is public information, or something that was 'confidentially discussed'.

    But socks shouldn't be a problem at all.

    But I agree with jedi-mind-trick on #2.

    What we should have in the JC, is an Electoral College.

    Now now, hear me out. Perhaps the users can vote on some users to represent them. Come election time, the users can vote, and the Electorates for each 'district' can vote based on these results, or against them, but usually with.

    In the case of FORUM ADMINS the whole boards can vote, and the Mod who reaches a #, or gets the most, is Admin. Or we can just do 'local' ones, and let the mods pick Admins.

    For local elections, there can be delegates based on board popularity, or a set number. The electorates can either decide like a Jury, or each cast votes, and the candidate with the most, or a certain number, wins.

    This sort of stops socks, as a user would have to register with a 'party' or 'delegate' - to stop duplicates. Users created the same day they vote would obviously be socks, and not count.

    I dunno.
  8. yodaboy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2001
    star 5
    I don't think admin's should get voted on at all. teh admin 's position has sooo much power, only those explicitly trusted should be allowed this position.
  9. Smuggler-of-Mos-Espa Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2002
    star 6
    xie, thta's why ip addresses are here. ;)
  10. xie Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 5
    Hehehe. They can see all of your socks. [face_plain]

    I know.
  11. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    Ip address searching isn't perfect.

    It would require an extensive search of everyone who voted who wasn't immediately known to be a unique user and even then it would be inconclusive.
  12. FlamingSword Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2001
    star 6
    You can still use socks by going to friends houses, work, school, and home computers - all of which have different IPs.

    I haven't read every post in this thread, just the first 2-3 pages and this last one, but I think that voting for mods would have too many serious problems to be a viable solution.

    Socks - although the problem of socks can be somewhat overcome, it would require a lot of work and is not foolproof.

    Popularity contest - the most popular person wins, regardless of their maturity and moderating skills. Right now it's somewhat of a popularity contest - popular people stand a better chance, but at least the mods know what's required to be a mod.

    Gifts & Bribes - "I'll vote for you if you promise not to ban me" [face_plain]
  13. Smuggler-of-Mos-Espa Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2002
    star 6
    Gifts & Bribes - "I'll vote for you if you promise not to ban me"

    I doubt anyone would go through with that.
  14. Red_Oktobur Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2001
    star 6
    Like I said before, bad idea. And as someone else said, people may vote for a moron who has no idea, who may seem like fun, but sucks as a moderator. He's just there to get colors and ban his enemies and edit posts directed at him.

    The nomination idea isn't really a bad one, but I don't see what good it would do. Nominating such as Barry or YOTS or someone else like that (those were just examples. Yes, they are perm banned, thank God) is not healthy for the JC, and I think that when you say it would help the JC to have user-picked mods, it would actually be destroying it. It wouldn't matter who was in, about 7 days later there would be plenty of complaint threads.

    Bad idea, bad idea.



    ...and a Jango
  15. Terr_Mys Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 6
    I'm not really sure if this is a good idea or not, but it just popped into my head.

    What if the Advisory Council was used to vote for moderators? They would have an equal amount of input from the administration as well as regular users, and they'd accept suggestions from both groups. If the need for more moderation were to come about, then the AC could present suggestions to the admin, and they would decide. I think this would allow for some popular sovereignty without turning things into a popularity contest.
  16. Gay-LenKenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2000
    star 5
    Don't count on the AC for much, soon.
  17. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    You mean other then the fact there are only roughly 8 AC members?

  18. Terr_Mys Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 6
    Well, like most of the JCers out there, I don't know squat about how the inner workings go on here. It's just an idea. Essentially, representative democracy. The ordinary Joes get a say in things, but they don't turn the JC into a crazy house.
  19. HL&S Magistrate Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2001
    star 6
    Sssshhhhh

    Don't speak of the AC as if it were gone. It will never go away. Never!


    *takes his dose of reality*

    Okay what was I saying?
  20. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    Except not, since three AC members are permanent and only five are rotating and their chosen by their fellow AC members not the general populous.

    And speaking of which I thought the AC agreed to accept nominations for consideration when they chose their members next time and were going to increase the number of members.


    And isn't it about time the rotating members were replaced?
  21. Smuggler-of-Mos-Espa Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2002
    star 6
    Like I said before, bad idea. And as someone else said, people may vote for a moron who has no idea, who may seem like fun, but sucks as a moderator. He's just there to get colors and ban his enemies and edit posts directed at him.

    I doubt anyone here in the forums have the guts to do that. and i hope that if we ever do have moderator elections, which looks kinda dim, everyone would vote in the forum's best itnerest.
  22. FlamingSword Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2001
    star 6
    Smuggler-of-Mos-Espa, I admire your faith in people. :)


    FS: Gifts & Bribes - "I'll vote for you if you promise not to ban me"

    SoME: I doubt anyone would go through with that.

    I am sure there will be some people who directly do this. But even if they don't, there will be some favoritism shown to avid supporters and criticism to avid opponents. It could very easily get too political and unpleasant.


    ?: Like I said before, bad idea. And as someone else said, people may vote for a moron who has no idea, who may seem like fun, but sucks as a moderator. He's just there to get colors and ban his enemies and edit posts directed at him.

    SoME: I doubt anyone here in the forums have the guts to do that. and i hope that if we ever do have moderator elections, which looks kinda dim, everyone would vote in the forum's best itnerest.

    Oh, I am sure there are people who not only have the guts, but will do it. Sometimes it's not so much a matter of conciously deciding, but there is an unconcious favoritism. Sure, mods may have that now too, but if there are elections it will be there moreso.


    Do we, the general populace, really have any idea what it takes to be a moderator?

    What do you think is required to be a moderator and what are good traits/skills that a moderator needs?
  23. Red_Oktobur Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2001
    star 6
    I doubt anyone here in the forums have the guts to do that. and i hope that if we ever do have moderator elections, which looks kinda dim, everyone would vote in the forum's best itnerest.


    Sorry, but no. I know plenty of people that would do that, but I also know many people who would do anything. They wouldn't vote in the forum's best interests. I don't know how many people you've met, but there are plenty out there who'd vote for their friends, buddies, and others who would vote just to screw the JC. That's the plain, sad truth.



    ...and a Jango
  24. Gay-LenKenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2000
    star 5
    "And isn't it about time the rotating members were replaced?"


    They are stalling for a reason.
  25. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
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