Why is public voting for moderators not viable? (A plan)

Discussion in 'Communications' started by jediguy, Sep 19, 2002.

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Moderators: JoinTheSchwarz, LAJ_FETT, Ramza
  1. Smuggler-of-Mos-Espa Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2002
    star 6
    Jeez, FlamingSword, your making me sound like a babbling loonie, and that is something i am...not. [face_plain]

    ;)
  2. Red_Oktobur Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2001
    star 6
    Smuggler, you are a fiend [face_devil] :p




    ...and a Jango
  3. Connemara Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2000
    star 6
    Ok...I didn't really have the time to read this whole topic. However, I want to let jediguy know he has my wholehearted support on this issue. I think the Jcers should at least have some sort of a say in this. It's not at all fair to them that they have no choice in who moderates them. And while Ia dmire the mods for the work and skill they put into the JC...they do *not* always know best.
  4. NathanDahlin Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2000
    star 6
    Public voting for moderators is not viable for the following reasons:

    • Sockpuppets could be used to sway the vote and verifying the identity of each voter is impracticle.

    • Many people will vote for people they like, rather than those that will make good moderators. Popular users aren't necessarily good moderator candidates.

    • A lot of politics, muck-raking, and hurt feelings could result from a public election


    That said, I think that members nominating moderators is a possibility. The nominations could be PMed to a specific moderator and the nominations could then be compiled in Mod Squad HQ for a vote. The mods could dismiss candidates that break the rules. Obviously, we wouldn't throw out a candidate simply because he got warned for spamming at the beginning of his JC career, but I honestly think that it's in the best interests of the JC to have the actual vote be private and controlled (i.e. without the possibility of socks voting). I think it's a great idea to allow members to privately nominate/recommend good moderators. The things we would want to avoid are campaign threads, users nominating themselves, socks swaying votes, users' reputations getting dragged through the mud, or having their feelings hurt because they're nominated (and qualified) but are passed up for other candidates. And, of course, no one would wnat this to result in a popularity contest.
  5. jediguy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 10, 2000
    star 5
    The nominations could be PMed to a specific moderator and the nominations could then be compiled in Mod Squad HQ for a vote.

    Sorry Nathan, but I would not support a system of nomination that was private. Just as the Mod Squad does not trust the General membership with voting, I do not trust the Mod Squad with a system of nomination that cannot be spectated and observed by us. Here's how I think it should work: without warning, stick a thread in Community (or wherever) and let people nominate a name, with the following conditions:
    1.) No threads relating to the Nominations are allowed.
    2.) Nobody who has been at the JC for less than two months is allowed to nominate or second.
    3.) No socks.
    4.) Nobody is allowed to nominate themselves.
    5.) If the Administration gets wind of PM campaigning - that person gets disqualified from this set of nominations as well as all other elections for a period of six months.
  6. Night4554 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 9, 2000
    star 5
    2.) Nobody who has been at the JC for less than two months is allowed to nominate or second


    That's a little iffy there. I don't know if I like that particular idea.

    I think a sticky posted in the forum, asking users to pm a mod with your recomendations is a good idea. Campaigning is strictly forbidden, as are threads. I think that after so many days, the admins could post in the (now-locked) sticky somehting like:

    These people have been nominated:

    User X
    User Y
    User Z
    User 3.5

    We will take this to MS for consideration.

    And then make a decision from that.

    thoughts, thoughts

    ¤Night
  7. NathanDahlin Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2000
    star 6
    Hmmm...I suppose that might work if we work it out a bit more. I'd like to suggest harsh penalties for anyone who tries to vote with a sock. Something like being disqualified from any future nomination threads or something. There's a minor flaw with your last idea. It would be fairly easy for someone to sabatage someone's chances of being appointed by making it seem like there's an undercover campaign for the member. That's part of my concern about a public vote being mired by politics. We'd have to have harsh penalties for abuse to ensure that we avoid the things I mentioned in my post.

    Good thread, BTW. While I don't think that it's in the best interests of the board to have "public voting", per se, this topic is a nice springboard for ideas to involve members in the appointment process a little more. The last thing we want is to appoint moderators that you guys won't respect or appreciate.

    EDIT: I'm logging off for the weekend so I apologize in advance for not promptely responding to your future posts.
  8. jediguy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 10, 2000
    star 5
    That's a little iffy there. I don't know if I like that particular idea.

    Why? I sincerely doubt whether people who have been members for less than two months would have a proper idea of who would do a good job as moderator and thus who to nominate.
  9. Kadue Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 20, 2000
    star 5
    jediguy, I can understand the thought of people thinking names might get "lost" in the process. After it was brought up in here, discussion is taking place in MS about the idea of users giving nominations. The thought is to maybe get everyone to send nominations to a MS sock, which we can all access to check on the names, but have one person do the tally.

    The problem that I (and others) have with public nomination, is to do with those that are nominated. Yes, the best light to take things in is that you were considered, and there was someone just slightly better than you decided on. That is the mature way to take "losing" this kind of thing. But that doesn't stop the thoughts that creep in the back of your head saying that you weren't thought good enough because of whatever reason, when it could be that there were two candidates that would have done an equally good job, and it came to almost sheer randomness that they missed out.
  10. AmazingB Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2001
    star 7
    "when it could be that there were two candidates that would have done an equally good job, and it came to almost sheer randomness that they missed out."

    If you have two candidates that are both equally good and would make good additions to the Mod Squad, why not take both of them? Better to have two new good mods than one.

    Amazing.
  11. Dark_Lord_Erik Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2001
    star 5
    In theory, it would be nice to have a sort of nomination/election process.

    I just see this turning the members of the board on each other. It would be nothing more than a popularity contest. Sometimes the most popular person makes a good mod, but a lot of times he/she will have a lot of people to please.

    Also, how can users take into account the members that help by sending PMs and the such? They wouldn't have the insight of who is helping already.

    I really don't see too much wrong with the way things are done now. Instead of member vs. mod(like it is sometimes now), it'll be member vs. member(which is even worse).

    EDIT: Maybe the Mods could nominate people, then we(the members) vote on who becomes a mod? That way the best mod candidates get a chance, and we also get input.
  12. Darth Dark Helmet Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 1999
    star 6
    If you have two candidates that are both equally good and would make good additions to the Mod Squad, why not take both of them? Better to have two new good mods than one.

    The amin times I've seen this come up, are for the most part when talking about mods for smaller forums. A forum that would only require one mod to watch over it, there may be two users from that forum who would both be equally good, but for a forum like say (as an example) Lucasfilm Projects, it has no need for two mods. So we would just pick one of the two.
  13. Gay-LenKenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2000
    star 5
    "But that doesn't stop the thoughts that creep in the back of your head saying that you weren't thought good enough because of whatever reason, when it could be that there were two candidates that would have done an equally good job, and it came to almost sheer randomness that they missed out. "



    I don't think that is true at all. The thing is that many of the people whose name has been tossed around Mod Squad for a mod position knew about it. Rumors get ppassed around, friends want to be the first to congradulate, and some how the nominee finds out they are under consideration.

    But they don't always actually get the job. But they don't freak out or turn into a troll. They just sthrug it off and deal. And I'm sure any time a new mod is announced, other regs in that forum would be that disappointed that they weren't picked. I'm willing to bet that atleast half of all members think they are one good deed out of Mod Squad. When the announcement comes that someone else got the job, sure they feel bad about it, but you can't avoid there being disappointment one you pick 1 out of 70k+.

    If someone was as close to the job as you described, I would hope they would have sense enough to realize that not being picked as a moderator on a SW message board is not the worst tragedy of their entire life. If someone ever did throw a hissy fit, then I would assume you'd know you made the right choice. ;)
  14. Valiowk Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2000
    star 6
    I don't think that is true at all. The thing is that many of the people whose name has been tossed around Mod Squad for a mod position knew about it.

    Maybe quite a number of thsoe whose names were previous under consideration know about it (due to the darthpsycotic incident? :confused: ). But do they know the reasons why they were not selected? It seems to me that the reason very possibly is that the mods need somebody who has quite a lot of time on their hands, and some who passed through that list simply may not have been free enough. Sometimes, it's good to be able to assume, or to just leave it to your imagination that you were not that far off.

    When the announcement comes that someone else got the job, sure they feel bad about it, but you can't avoid there being disappointment one you pick 1 out of 70k+.

    It seems to me that the chances of being picked between 1 out of 70,000+ and 1 out of maybe at most 10 is very different. In the former you can always shrug it off due to the numerous possibilities. In the latter it's a lot harder to accept that you may have come close - or even worse, what if it wasn't close? Yes, maybe a lot of the regulars are able to accept that once ago they were considered and were not chosen, but it's awkward when half the JC actually knows of the choices and also your score. That's the difference.

    That's just my $0.02 worth, though. I'm not good at guessing feelings, so apologies to anybody if I interpreted the situation differently from you.
  15. Gay-LenKenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2000
    star 5
    Well, when I was under consideration, I found out exactly why I didn't get a promotion. It had nothing to do with my time or actions around the JC and more to do with my social circle. I didn't get a spot because of who they thought I was cyber-dating. Ridiculous? You bet ya. All the mods (what are they at, 50 total now?) sitting around talking my my love life, so yeah, I do know a little about being humiliated and embarassed.

    But I shrugged it off. Is it wrong for them to even discuss my off JC life like that? Damn right. DO they make such inquiries into the personal lives of the other mods? I highly doubt it. But I deal. I still speak to all the mods, and I didn't stop being friends with ones that were against promoting me. I'm as honest and forthcoming with them as I was before. I give them info they might need when it comes my way and I still want to participate here in Comms.

    If the one thing keeping someone from getting the job is pointed out to them, anyone with any sense is going to do what it takes to rectify it, not sit around and mope about it. When it comes down to it, the mods do take a lot of crap like that. We publicly discuss their fitness to be mods pretty regularly here in Comms. They are in the spotlight, and anyone who wants to take on such a position should know that is what they can expect. If they are afraid to have their faults pointed out to them, then modship is not for them.
  16. FlamingSword Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2001
    star 6
    Sorry, Smuggler-of-Mos-Espa, I'll try better next time [face_blush]
  17. Smuggler-of-Mos-Espa Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2002
    star 6
    FlamingSword, don't worry, i was lying about not being a babbling loonie. :)

    Smuggler, you are a fiend

    Awwwww, thanks, you too. [face_laugh]
  18. Connemara Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2000
    star 6
    Why does everyone immediately assume that such things as nominations and voting won't work? It's never been tried. I still don't think the voting idea would be a bad one, I am just not that paranoid about socks.

    But nominations is a good idea as well. however, it, too, is fraught with difficulty, cause there are so many JCers. If you just post a thread asking for nominations, by the end of the day you'll have about 2,000. But I'm sure some rules can be set up to combat that.

    I do not think the nominations should be totally private. There will be politics involved either way, and I may be wrong, but I think if there was private nominations it would be little better than mod nominations.

    At least give the nomination idea a try. I personally don't think it'll do anything to worsen the condition of the JC, might even imprive it, and build more trust between mods and members.
  19. Valiowk Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2000
    star 6
    Well, I guess you're right, GayLen. If they are afraid to have their faults pointed out to them, then modship is not for them. I have to agree with this statement. Thank you.
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