Why is there so much droidism in a GFFA?

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by MadMardigan, Jun 13, 2003.

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  1. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    "i can think of many occasions where threepio is afraid he will be dismantled for making a mistake. if he is not self aware why does he fear "death?" would your answer be that he's programed to fear death?"

    Since my car can tell me when the temperature is getting dangerously high, or the oil is getting low, or the gas tank is dangerously empty, you mean to tell me that it is "self-aware"?

    These "indicators" can easily explain the behavior of C-3PO and R2-D2. When 3PO sees discarded and dismembered robots around him, it's not hard to compute that the same thing could happen to him.

    "although i have been known to hit my hard drive when it freezes up...it does not scream, however."

    Because this kind of indicator is not built into the hard drive. However, it will make noises that can be taken by indications to you that it is not running well after being hit. The only difference is whether or not the drive is made aware of these potential problems. Newer hard drives can "scream"...

    "Wouldn't you like to know if your hard drive is about to go bye-bye? The SMART-ER utility from Apricorn monitors your hard drives and warns you if a crash seems imminent."

    "The more you know about hard drives, the more impossible they seem. Dozens of wafer-thin platters can be whirling at over 60 spins per second, their featherweight read/write heads close enough to record or sense bits without plowing furrows into the delicate magnetic coating. The fact that hard drives work at all is impressive. That they boast mean-times-between-failures of hundreds of thousands of hours is astonishing."

    "SMART-ER test analyzes hard drive to diagnose possible problems.
    Besides their remarkable physical capabilities, hard drives are SMART too. Modern drives include Self-Monitoring And Report Technology circuitry that keeps tabs on indicators such as spin-up time, seek errors, reallocated sectors, and throughput. If any of the monitored statistics exceeds the drive manufacturer's threshold values, SMART broadcasts a warning of possible drive trouble. The problem is, most computer systems aren't listening."

    "SMART-ER changes that. SMART-ER (Error Reporting) pays attention to the SMART messages from IDE-type hard drives and lets the user know when a hard drive is going south. The user can then back up the drive or make other arrangements before the drive crashes and you have a catastrophic data loss."


    It is this kind of "technology", only more advanced in a fantasy scenario, that guides C-3PO's drive for self-protection. C-3PO, like the hard drive, is given parameters within which it can reasonably operate, and make act when those parameters are surpassed or breached. Star Wars just takes that to a whole new (and humorous) level. You are simply reading way too much into the droids' antics.

    "i'm trying to figure out if there is a line between artificial intelligence and organic intelligence. if you give a computer the ability to think in a human manner. grow in a human manner. have self awareness. is it merely a computer? this is the old "if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's a duck.." thing i'm getting at."

    Fine, and if we were talking about real robots, I would agree with you, BUT WE'RE NOT! It's a fantasy film. There is a difference.

    "you may as well start saying lightsabers can't work and there's no such thing as hyperspace while you are at it. your opinion based on scenarios that you create does not help your argument."

    The argument isn't whether or not something works, but how it works! We simply disagree on the means with which C-3PO acts on self-preservation. You think robots have feelings, and I have shown that there are obvious technical answers to explain their behavior. If "screaming" makes something "alive", then the "howling wind" outside my house during the Santa Anas must mean it's really pissed off.

    "that you cannot compare technology u
  2. Iron_Fist Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2003
    star 5
    C-3PO and R2-D2 have distinct personalities because their memories aren't wiped. Droids' memory chips are normally kept as blank as the tech teacher's chalkboard, so's that they don't get quirky personality traits, but Threepio and Artoo have managed to hold onto their memories, giving them very different personalities.
  3. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    Lucas has stated several times that the droids' memories will be wiped somewhere between Ep.III and ANH. Sorry. :(
  4. vw_jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2002
    star 4
    something makes me think that only threepio will get wiped. doesn't it always seem like artoo knows more than he lets on?
  5. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    I get that feeling too.

    Maybe R2 is experiencing Deja-Vu? [face_laugh]
  6. Aunecah_Skywalker Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 25, 2002
    star 5
    I don't know. I would say that for security's sake - considering that Obi-Wan thinks Luke is the last hope for the galaxy (which is preetttttttty important) - I would have said that both R2 and 3PO get their memories wiped. If R2 fell in the wrong hands and the Empire, Force forbid, managed to extract information from its datadrive, then we might have some interesting problems.

    Aunecah
  7. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    Plus, Lord only knows what, exactly, Leia told R2.
  8. Mateo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2001
    star 4
    The subject of Robot and Cyborg rights is brought in the Animatrix DVD in the two stories called "The Second Renaissance Parts I & II" in these stories it tells how Human beings created the Machine's in Mans own image thus did man begin his own demise.

    They gave the machines the ability to think creatively and even gave them certain basic rights and treated the robots and other machines badly,the machines got no respect from their masters even though they were loyal and opposed their destruction,this could have been avoided by not giving them freedom of thought or rights.
  9. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    No offense, but I've not read those. The Star Wars EU brought up these topics before the Reanimatrix.
  10. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    I just wanted to add this little tid-bit I ran across on the OS.

    EV-9D9 (Eve-Ninedenine)

    EV-9D9 was a sadomasochist. She relished in the electronic jumble of signals that was the droid equivalent of pain. She machined specialized sensors called pain buttons and affixed them to droids so that they could transmit their anguish. She studied the signals, savored them, and grew to need them. To that end, Eve had a specialized third optic sensor that could specially analyze the algorithms of pain. She prized this extrasensory ability.

    Wuntoo blasted EV-9D9. Rather than let the droid relish her own pain, Wuntoo tore out her third optic and disabled her pain button. Eve lay dying, unable to study the sensations of her final moments. The twisted droids she had experimented on crawled toward her, and dismantled her.
  11. vw_jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2002
    star 4
    mebejedi-that's what i was talking about. if there wasn't some sort of actual artificial intelligence in some droids, why would they relish things like tormenting other droids and so forth?
  12. ForceHeretic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2002
    star 4
    you make the asumption that humans have souls. there is no proof in this universe or the GFFA that humans have souls.

    That's actually not true

    There have been tests done where a person/persons who is near death is put on an atomic scale, and when they die there is a loss of i believe it is .003g that science cannot account for

    And when I said they have no rights I mean just that, they don't have the right to do anything if their masters don't want them to.

    also what is the concept of "rights?" rights to do what? drink in a bar? we see droid bounty hunters (ig-88, 4 lom.)i would assume that droids have the right to make money. so therefore they can spend money. perhaps pay rent. own a ship. i can think of alot of things that "rights" can mean. your statement is vauge. so it's hard to respond to

    When I say they have no rights, that is not vague in any way, it's rather self explanatory. If I had said, "they have rights" then that would be vague. No rights means no rights, not to do anything if their masters say no. They don't have the right to do any of the things you mentioned, they could be privileges, but not rights

    They're nothing but a peice of property, mimicry is not life in any way no matter how advanced the mimicry is

    If I owned a droid and I felt like it was time to get rid of it, it's my right as it's owner to take a bat to it if I want, it's a hunk of metal, nothing more



    I know I'm a little late to respond but I havn't visited these boards in quite a while

    [/i]mebejedi-that's what i was talking about. if there wasn't some sort of actual artificial intelligence in some droids, why would they relish things like tormenting other droids and so forth?

    I don't recall a droid in SW ever relishing in "tormenting" another droid. The droid in ROTJ was simply being branded, it wasn't being tortured. And the one that had its arms pulled off was i'm sure scheduled for scrapping and they simply used that machine to tear its arms and legs from its body, which for all we know could be a very difficult job by any other means
  13. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    "mimicry is not life in any way no matter how advanced the mimicry is"

    ...or how advanced the "scream" is. ;)

    Excellent point.
  14. The_Anakin_Wannabe Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2003
    star 4
    There have been tests done where a person/persons who is near death is put on an atomic scale, and when they die there is a loss of i believe it is .003g that science cannot account for

    They measure this on a scale that can detect ink of paper. that .003 of a gram could mean less oxygen in the lungs, it could mean almost anything when it is this senstative.

  15. ForceHeretic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2002
    star 4
    Like i said, science cannot account for it, they've tried to figure it out, they can't come up with an explanation

    It wouldn't be .003 with every single test if it was something like air being exhaled, it would vary
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