Why Me? (a Qui-gon humorous round robin torture thread, Come and Join)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Geneva,Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JediBri17:
please allow me to re-iterate i think Knightquest looks great and i only wish to emulate their type of special effects if possible

Don't worry, I wasn't sticking up for KQ because of anything you said... It's just that I hear so many bad things about it, yet it's clear to me that there is also a great deal going for it. The post I referred to was primarily regarding camerawork, and this is one thing I think KQ excels in, particularly in its use of steadycam shots. This is best shown on the duelling between Dannick and vader, where the camera movements are kept tight and dynamic, and do much to improve what is not perhaps the best choreography around...

All this talk reminds me of the battering 'Titanic' got before release - who knows? We may have a real winner to look forward to!

BTW, JediBri17 - If you want that kind of SFX quality, you're gonna have to go with CGI. Know in advance you won't get KQ quality, but you should be able to achieve something better than shooting toys against bluescreen...

Take a look at the opening scenes of TTC. I modelled that spacehip myself. The design took about half an hour, modelling another hour, texturing maybe another hour. Add to that the animation, and after a day's work, that scene was in the can. I'm sure you could do something similar - just be realistic and honest with yourself... You can download a mesh to speed up the process, and if you don't have a powerful computer, you can limit the number of ships on screen at one time... in other words, there are ways to get by...

"A man's got to know his limitations" Dirty Harry, Magnum Force

Saeed TTC

 

Well that brings up an interesting point, Azeem, perhaps one for a separate thread, but is there room on the discussion boards for criticism? I mean, as long as it's brought up professionally and not personally?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Geneva,Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Azeem:
I do not know what brought on this urge to bash Joe Monroe and Tom Sehenuk ... that does not give anyone the right to put them down.

Azeem
TFN FanFilms

 

Maybe I missed this on another post, but what programs were used for the CGI in KnightQuest? 3d Studio Max? Lightwave? Maya? etc...

 

Big Jim,

I talked with Tom (the guy that did the f/x)
and he told me everything was done in Lightwave, and he actually made all of the models too. He also told me that they used Ultimatte for the blue screening work, which
is pretty much the industry standard.

I was surprised he and Joe got back to me what with how busy they are and all. He and Joe both are really down to earth fellas.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Geneva,Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>KnightQuest will probably be like Troops, a very unique and high quality film that people talk about for years.

Heh heh heh...

Kurt Luther
Affiliation Pending

 

are there any reasonably priced CGI programs?

 

-are there any reasonably priced CGI programs?

Lokmer, here's your queue.

You are free to crticisize all you want what you think the flaws are of a film. But attacking the people directly is something that needs to stop. Re read a couple of the early comments and you will see why I posted.

I have seen quite a few "Siskels and Eberts" lately. If you want to choose to be this type of poster, that is fine, but be prepared to back up your reviews.

Do I think everyone will like KnightQuest? No, of course not. Many of the lines I'm sure are going to come off cheesy but that's Star Wars. As long as they don't whine about going to Toshi Station (unless they do it like Sponewalker in PA WARS) then go ahead and bring out the cheese.

Joe and Tom are just two guys that wanted to make a Star Wars film because they love the world Lucas created. They are no different than any of us. This is Joe's first film writing and directing so obviously he is going to make mistakes. I'm not expecting Laurence of Arabia, I am expecting top quality post production work because that is what they do for a living.

I do get a chance to preview KnightQuest in its entirety in the next few days. Don't think I'm not excited about that. There are SOME good perks about this job.

Finally, next month I will be posting some of the interviews with Joe, Tom, and Eduardo plus the interview with actress who plays the smuggler in the film.

Off the soapbox and back to bed. (I hate working nights)

Azeem
TFN FanFilms

 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Geneva,Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>

I do get a chance to preview KnightQuest in its entirety in the next few days. Don't think I'm not excited about that. There are SOME good perks about this job.

[/B]

??? In its entirety??? I thought they recently said that it would be finished for a LONG time? (And if it is finished, or close to, would you mind showing me too?? tongue.gif )

 

&lt;Graciously accepts soapbox from Azeem&gt;
Thanks for the cue, Az!

For CGI on the cheap, you can't beat Blender. Here are the pros and cons:

Price(Pro): Absolutely free! Plus an abridged manual is online for free!
Price (Con): If you want the whole manual (a very comprehensive document), you have to pay $40 - but it's worth it.


Interface (Con):
The interface is unconventional, and, for the windows user, can seem counter-intuitive at times.
Interface (Pro): Once you figure it out, it is blazingly efficient, since everything is linked to hotkeys you don't have to fiddle with menus unless you really want to. And, with HotKeys 2000 coming out, learning the interface is getting easier.

Support (Pro): Several users groups, including a news group run by the author of the software, garruntee you can get almost any question answered. Additionally, several hundred tutorials are easily available for the asking.
Support (Con): This is primarily a linux community as far as culture goes, the rule of thumb is RTFM (Read the *****ing Manual). If you have a question, you'll be expected to research it yourself before asking for help (i.e. look through manual, search news archives, and working through tutorials).

Capabilities (Pro): The features are hard to summarize in this space, but I'll try.

Modelling: Nurbs, Berzier, polyMesh, Smesh, Metaballs, B-spline, polycurves. All basic primitives native, more complicated primitives are free in an add-on .blend written by one of the guys at NAN. Lattice deformation

Plug-ins: Python scripting, easy to learn (as far as programming goes). Currently there are 35-40 plugins available for Blender, all free (Zblur, recolor, chromakey, subsurf, 3DS import/export, etc).

Particles: Extremely sophistocated, fully controllable, self-respawning particle/wave engine.

Textures: Built in texture noise engines allow you (with a little practice)to make just about any organic texture imaginable. Also accepts standard Graphix formats as texture input (.avi, .tga, .jpg, and a few obscure ones). Supports mirrored surfaces and transparency, specularity, bump, etc (all the standard texture types you find on Maya).

Animation: Keyframes, IKAs, inverse kinematics, skeletons, and (this one's knew so I haven't fooled with it much) scripted character animation (i.e. no keyframes). All items (lighting, cameras, objects, textures, motion paths, etc) are fully animatable using either keyframes, scripts, or motion paths.

built in render engine.

The list goes on, for more info check out http://www.blender.nlwww.blender.nl

As for the major cons, there are a few:
1) Mac is about the only OS it is not available for. This is expected to change late this summer.
2)Cardinal curves/meshes are not yet implemented.
3) Although it can cast shadows and do reflections, Blender does not support raytracing. To raytrace you must render using POVray or similar.
4) Takes patience to get aquainted with.

That's my blender spiel. Hope it was helpful!
-Lokmer

 

I didn't mean to get everyone's panties in an uproar, when I responded to JediBri17's comments on KQ. I guess I'm a little hungry to see the fresh new material amateur filmmakers are capable of producing. I hope KQ shows me something I haven't seen before like George Lucas in Love, Troops, or Legacy because I have seen the best Star Wars films and they are called Episodes 4 through 6 (sorry to those that loved TPM, it just didn't hit me as hard as the classic trilogy although it was still fun to watch). That's just my opinion, I could be wrong. Or maybe I just need a break from SW for a little while.

 

If you ask me, then I think the effects in KQ are nothing short of amazing. It's not the shots that you should be concerned about. IT'S THE IDEA'S THAT HAVE PUT ON PAPER!

Trust me, an effect shot is nothing more than a set of pixels. If you have an idea that looks good on paper, it will look good on the screen.

There are some bad effects shots in the KQ trailer too, not because the effects were bad as such, but the idea wasn't that great to begin with.

Not only that, these guys have had a lot of practice doing what they do. They know the ropes. When Azeem gets around to posting my tutorial on production methods, you will notice that I say that you should practice, and sit down and think about what you are doing. I cannot stress this enough!

Anakin: I don't understand.

Qui-Gon: With time and training, Ani, you will.

Now, I cant remember who started this topic off was, but I have a feeling that your FX problem probably laid in the lighting department. That is KEY in any FX shot. Make sure you have your subject well lit, and evenly.

 

The version I will be seeing is only a preview. I know it is still a ways off because Clay Kronke has not received all the CD's yet for the lightsabers. Tom is still working on the final shots and voice overs are being completed on Vader and Chee (the robot in Tara's ship).

We all are anxiously awaiting this film. But just the chance to watch Vader again go after Jedi is worth any wait (even til 2005).

Azeem
TFN FanFilms

 

Okay, my turn.

I was really bored so I'm posting...

The KQ trailers prompted me to take a stab at making a fan film, and the Matrix trailer. Merely because I wanted to see if I couldn't top what they did. That is also one of the reasons why I am helping out with the Ancient Power fan film(here's a plug guys). The problem I see is that too many of you are not thinking forth dimensionally when you are 'grading' these pieces. By this I mean that you are comparing apples to oranges. Each film submitted to the TFN site should not be compared to another film here at the TFN because they are all individual pieces of art. You wouldn't compare a beethoven to a speilberg would you; no, because they are on two different plains. That is how you should see these pieces, even though they are all films.

Don't compare your hasbro toys to 3D computer animation, like someone stated before 'If you have a good story, you already have a good fan film', the acting and the effects are just there to compliment your story.

Most of Joe's budget was waisted on renting rooms for his cast and crew. He was using a film, by which for an ametuer, can really hurt your film if you don't get the shot you want. Reason being is that Joe had to wait to get the film developed before he could review it; and I doubt he was able to call the actors back out to the site and reshoot and reshoot till he had the shots he wanted.

I say that it is just a fan film and let the good times roll.......

 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Geneva,Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Azeem:
I have seen quite a few "Siskels and Eberts" lately...

The part of Gene Siskel was played by Saeed Sadiq in front of a live studio audience...

 

Oh, no! You are NOT sticking me with the part of Ebert. The guy who said of both Blade Runner and The Usual Suspects "I just don't get it." No way. Perhaps, "Siskel and Siskel: Poltergeist Film Critic Twins"


-Lokmer

 

You don't remember this...?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Geneva,Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lokmer:
Hey Saeed! Found a program that'll help you learn Blender: http://home.swipnet.se/glow3d/hotkey.html http://home.swipnet.se/glow3d/hotkey.html
I *THINK* it runs on Windows, but I'm not absolutely sure (I havent' installed it yet). Tell me if it helps, my fellow Siskel !
-Lokmer

...It seems you wanted the role of Ebert all along...

Saeed TTC

PS Perhaps a better analogy for us two would be Laurel and Hardy, or Abbot and Costello...?

 

I can definately deal with that!

 

When it comes to using my computer i am(admittedly) a high funtioning retard at best. So I THINK I downloaded Blender (on your advice Lokmer) . Now, how does it work? (haha) how can i get the user manual and thanks to everyone for your advice

 

Now, now, Saeed, if he said "my fellow Siskel," wouldn't that imply that you're both Siskels? You're going to have to do some outside contracting to find a decent Ebert.

(Then again, that show's gone down the drain lately, so maybe with five bucks and a cookie, you could get the real Ebert . . . )

 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Geneva,Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nathan PTH:
Now, now, Saeed, if he said "my fellow Siskel," wouldn't that imply that you're both Siskels? You're going to have to do some outside contracting to find a decent Ebert.

(Then again, that show's gone down the drain lately, so maybe with five bucks and a cookie, you could get the real Ebert . . . )

True, Nathan, from a grammatical viewpoint. But Lokmer had said prior to that quote that we have opposing styles of reviewing films, so by default he would have to be Ebert...I guess... ::shrug::

How can the show still be going on? Have they found someone else with the same surname...?

Anyway, it would seem my original 'Siskel and Ebert' reference caught on quite well with people here, heh...

Saeed TTC

PS I haven't got round to reading 2S yet - so many people here quote me/ask questions/ give feedback etc etc on this forum, that I have difficulty keeping up! My next main 'contract' is to model Lokmer a CG sabre...

 

Learning Blender? "Now, that's the real trick isn't it. And it's gonna cost you something extra..." j/k

The user manual is obtainable from the blendershop at http://www.blender.nlwww.blender.nl
Tutorials are available everywhere. A good place to start is B@rt's tut page at members.xoom.com/blender, but he does assume a basic knowledge. Also check out the tuts at http://www.blendermania.comwww.blendermania.com and for a comprehensive list of hotkeys (just discovered this one myself), check out http://home.iae.nl/users/exwhale/blender/main/hot.html http://home.iae.nl/users/exwhale/blender/main/hot.html
That should keep you busy
-Lokmer

 

We see this over and over all the time. What was that thing George Lucas said about one of the reasons why he made Star Wars. 'because he wanted to make something positive in a world filled with negativity'. This is why he thinks it's so successful too. You guys are so CYNICAL. Everybody is. I remember when EP1 came out, BEFORE it came out, everybody was bagging it b/c they're so cool and SW is so gay. This is from people who think being kool is doing drugs, looking like grunge, and getting drunk or something. For some reason in this country right now it's kool to be anti-social, negative & cynical, a gangster hoodlum, etc. etc. To some degree it's always been kool to be the outsider. But jeez....it's gotta be worse now than ever before. PEOPLE ARE SO NEGATIVE.

And it shows in here with these constant threads about how Knightquest sucks, or shoulda been different, or I could do it better, or why did they do that it was dumb.
I don't think alot of guys have any clue, not a CLUE how hard it is to do this stuff. Even if you did nothing but revolve everything around the STORY. Put everything else to the backburner. I mean with $100 million budget, another $40 million for the all-star cast, and it still can be bad. It's not always b/c they wrote the story in 24 hours and all they care about is money not making good movies. It's just DAMN hard to make a good movie. And it's a crap-shoot to stumble into a run-away hit. It's a fine craft that we need another 100 years to understand. Remember it's only been a 100 years since it was invented. I was thinking about this watching an action movie the other day from the 70's. Filmmakers today have come a really long way with planning their shots for MAX impact. Each shot is layed out like a priceless piece of artwork. So I just find it so negative and cynical for people to criticize amateur and fan fun created movies.

I think what alot of you guys need to do is see if you can do better before you can appreciate the work of others. Anybody can be a critic. The MATRIX JEDI is a good example too. I can find alot of problems with it but nothing worth complaining about. I'm really impressed with the several special effects shots they did. I'd really like to know how they pulled it off. Anyway, that's my 2cents for the constant film criticizing I see in the forums.

 

Zoo-

I kindof agree with you. I've been finding out first hand how difficult it is.
All I can say is what I'd like to see when (if?) my film comes out. I'm in this both for fun and to learn. As such, I think that constructive criticism should be the order of the day. Tell me what you liked, tell me what you didn't, and tell me why. Criticizing Knightquest is at best a premature thing since there are only trailers available. MATRIX JEDI had some good, inventive things and some definate weak points. It would be wrong just to poing out the weak points, but it would be a disservice to those putting it out in the public eye to overlook them entirely (and I must say the creators were very good sports about the constructive criticism they received).

Anyway, I'm not quite sure where I'm going with this. When I was reading your post, half of me was cheering and half was going "hey, wait a minute."
BTW- I find the Scifi3D site to be quite an inspiration. Thanks for maintaining it, and also for the comments you make here.

-Lokmer

 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Geneva,Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by zoo:
...You guys are so CYNICAL. Everybody is...PEOPLE ARE SO NEGATIVE...

...What - even me...?

Saeed TTC

 

There's a difference between constructive criticism and malicious criticism. I try and offer constructive criticism. Hopefully, it doesn't sound malicious. I know I'm hard on the films posted here but that's because the level of fx that can be achieved on a home pc have come so far so quickly now that what seperates the best fan films from the rest usually comes down to a mastery of basic filmmaking techniques like solid storytelling, competent acting, competent cinematography, solid editing, etc.. It's frustrating watching the trailers for Knightquest and seeing the relatively high production values being undermined by rotten acting and sometimes shaky camerawork. It's frustrating watching Matrix Jedi and thinking that if only the makers had polished the story more and had a better sense of where to put the camera they'd have a really kickass film because the fx were there.

I criticize because I care. Seriously. Someday, I think you'll see a fanfilm (a serious one not a spoof) that has all those elements together and you'll see what I mean because everyone will be blown away. I am cultivating a few ideas for a couple of fanfilms myself so that film may be mine. It'll be awhile because I need to upgrade my equipment but in the meantime I'm watching many of the films posted here and learning from all of you what can be done and what can't be done and I think that will go a long way toward making mine better.