Why no Luke and Leia theme in ROTS?

Discussion in 'Star Wars And Film Music' started by qui-gon-kim, Jun 5, 2005.

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  1. qui-gon-kim Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 19, 2001
    star 4
    I was pretty disapponted that the Luke and Leia theme from ROTJ did not show up in ROTS. It could have easily been inserted in the scene where Obi-Wan, Yoda and Bail discuss the twins' future. It would have been a powerful connection to when Luke finally tells Leia the truth. Perhaps it could be added to the DVD. Anyone else feel the way I do?
  2. General Kenobi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 1998
    star 6
    I'm glad Williams didn't use it. I like the score for the birth of the twins, and I much prefer Leia's theme as it is used in ROTS. To me, "Luke And Leia" is one of the weaker themes, and it fits into those ROTJ/Endor scenes, but I don't think it would work as well as Leia's theme in other places.
  3. TheBoogieMan Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2001
    star 6
    Yeah, I never actually liked Luke & Leia.

    Apart from it's derivative musicality (it is just variations on prior themes) it reminds me of that awful scene (weakest of the OT, IMO) where Luke tells Leia they are siblings...


    Much better to go with non-obscure, well-written, themes with good (and nostalgic) connotations!
  4. The-Tennis-Ball-Kid Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2004
    star 3
    L&L is about Luke discovering he's been kissing his sister (:eek: :p), since the plans Yoda et al were discussing did not involve the twins meeting there was no reason it should be used there.


    ttbk


  5. qui-gon-kim Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 19, 2001
    star 4
    since the plans Yoda et al were discussing did not involve the twins meeting there was no reason it should be used there.

    What movie were you watching???

    That whole sequence was about was was to be done with the twins! I think Luke and Leia would have fit perfectly, and it was a missed opprotunity by Williams and Lucas.
  6. The-Tennis-Ball-Kid Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2004
    star 3
    since the plans Yoda et al were discussing did not involve the twins meeting each other there was no reason it should be used there.

    " What movie were you watching??? "
    Revenge Of The Sith. Pretty good actually.... :)


    ttbk

  7. Sithman Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 1999
    star 7
    "I think Luke and Leia would have fit perfectly..."

    Very true. It would have fit perfectly. But would it have worked perfectly?

    What I mean is, using "Luke and Leia" to score Yoda and Obi-Wan's discussion on where to hide the twins works great on paper, but if you were to put that actual music into the film, it just wouldn't work. The musical qualities, harmonies, melodies, or whatever of "Luke and Leia" just don't work with the scene in ROTS. However, the musical qualities of "Luke's Theme" and "Leia's Theme" do work great in that scene, which is why Williams chose them over "Luke and Leia".

    Using the invididual themes of Luke and Leia worked perfectly on paper and worked perfectly in the film.

    Sometimes "Luke and Leia's Theme" just isn't the same as "Luke's Theme" and "Leia's Theme".

  8. DARTHLARS Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2002
    star 4
    In my opinion, the "Luke and Leia" theme is one of the most beautiful themes in the entire Saga.
    I really miss it, and I am disappointed that it was not included. I hope we will get an explanation from John Williams why he omitted it.
  9. redsabreanakin Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2005
    star 5
    I'm sure Williams didn't omit; somebody at Lucasfilm putting the movie together probably did. That could explain why Williams records so much new music for a movie and almost none of it appears in the finished product. Vaders birth: music we've heard before.
    Anakin going to the temple: music we've heard
    battle of kasyhkk: music we've heard before.

    i'm dissapointed in the music in the movie; not with the ROTS soundtrack
  10. General Kenobi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 1998
    star 6
    almost none of it appears in the finished product. Vaders birth: music we've heard before.

    Almost none? Sorry, but that hyperbole just doesn't cut it here. And the cue for the birth of Vader ("Padme's Destiny") is a reprise of "The Funeral Of Qui-Gon" that Williams scored. It was not tracked in.
  11. Indiana_Fett Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 12, 2004
    star 4
    Vader's Birth was newly recorded, not Qui-Gon's funeral.
  12. emilsson Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 1998
    star 6
    I agree with Sithman. "Luke and Leia" is one of my favorite themes in the entire OT but it wouldn't have worked as a connection between the prequels and the older movies. Luke and Leia's own themes does it better since they are heard a lot in ANH.
  13. HL&S Magistrate Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2001
    star 6
    I could have worked during the discussion of where to send the twins. Not during the actual birth though. It also would have really worked during the cut scene between Anakin and Padme where they discuss the baby and whether it was a boy or a girl. But alas, it was never meant to be.

    I enjoyed the thought of the twins having one theme together, then when they get separated they gain their own themes. Then when they reunite it goes back to the one theme. Oh well.
  14. Sithman Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 1999
    star 7
    "I enjoyed the thought of the twins having one theme together, then when they get separated they gain their own themes. Then when they reunite it goes back to the one theme. Oh well."


    See, that works awesomely on paper. It sounds like a really cool idea. But would it have worked in the film?

    Personally, I don't think so, but I guess we'll never know!
  15. Wester547 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2004
    star 4
    Actually, both Luke's and Leia's theme was used in ROTS at the end of the film...

    And how was the Luke and Leia sister and brother revealing emotional talk scene weak in ROTJ? I actually thought it was quite powerful and moving. Not nearly as moving when comparing to the emotional scenes in ROTS (E.G, Order 66 montage, The Jedi Temple slaughter, Anakin's Immolation, etc...), but still.
  16. TheBoogieMan Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2001
    star 6
    Personally, I don't think so, but I guess we'll never know!


    But we will! Follow DamonD's path, we will! Listen to Luke & Leia over our RotS DVD, we shall.

    :p


    And I thought the instrumental version of Qui-Gon's funeral was a great addition.
  17. Cerrabore Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 4
    Let's face it folks, Williams either forgot the Luke and Leia Theme or didn't like it enough to use it again. Although I agree that the tone of it doesn't match the children-related scenes.
  18. redsabreanakin Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2005
    star 5
    GENERAL KENOBI:
    Well that's what i'm saying...Padme's funeral/ vaders's birth was music played in TPM for qui-gon's funeral. why? for all the new music that williams made..most of the music in the movie is stuff from the previous movies (and before you say it; of course not all of it.) oh another one..when the invisible hand drops out of control; we get music from TPM (from the podrace)..you see what i'm getting at here?


    The OT may have used the same character themes from movie to movie; but never the same music. for example we never had the "the asteroid field" from ESB played again in another movie or another context.
  19. General Kenobi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 1998
    star 6
    Do you understand the difference between tracking in existing recordings and making a new recording the reprises an old cue? That was my point.

    "The Tide Turns", "The Arena" and some of the Trade Federation march cues were tracked in from TPM and AOTC recordings. The reprise of "The Funeral Of Qui-Gon" that we hear in "Padme's Destiny" is a new recording, as is "The Clash Of Lightsabers" Imperial March that we hear in "Anakin Vs. Obi-Wan". Williams did this in the OT as well.



    I'm sure Williams didn't omit

    Cerrabore summed up what I was impying in my earlier post: Williams intentionally didn't use it. There is no indication that he scored it and it was edited out.
  20. redsabreanakin Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2005
    star 5
    GENERAL KENOBI:
    no i guess i don't understand what you are saying. I'm not giving you crap;i'm just trying to understand. Now to me Qui-gon's funeral and Padme's destiny sound alike to me, are you saying that was a new recording?
  21. General Kenobi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 1998
    star 6
    Yes. It's a new recording that sounds very similar to "The Funeral Of Qui-Gon".

    On the other hand, "The Tide Turns" Force Theme cue that we hear as the Invisible Hand plummets towards Coruscant is the exact same recording used in TPM when Anakin blows up the droid control ship. It is simply "tracked" in to the ROTS score.

    Bottom line - Williams chose not to write "Luke And Leia" into the ROTS score. How did I get so far off track? :p
  22. redsabreanakin Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2005
    star 5
    okay..by "tracked" you mean previously written material is just edited into the movie yes?

    so then why does Williams go the trouble of writing a score for the film and then someone decides not to use the music?
  23. General Kenobi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 1998
    star 6
    Well, they use most of his new score. But the editing process that Lucas uses means that quite a bit of editing is done after the LSO has recorded the score. Some material is cut because scenes are cut or changed. It is simply not practical for Williams to gather the LSO in April to record musical "pickups". For example, in AOTC the Arena battle sequences were being edited very late the production process - right up until the last minute. Remember, Lucas says that "films aren't released, they 'escape'". Also, sometimes creative editorial decisions are made in regards to using different score.
  24. redsabreanakin Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2005
    star 5
    I see what your saying, i guess that i since I love the music that Williams has done over the years; i guess that even though they might be "new recordings" of old tracks..i really look forward to music that i haven't heard before.
  25. General Kenobi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 1998
    star 6
    Then you are probably happy that he didn't use "Luke And Leia" in ROTS. :p
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