CT Why Obi-wan & Yoda lied to Luke

Good analysis by blogger, Emily Asher-Perrin

http://www.tor.com/2015/01/26/this-is-why-obi-wan-lied-to-luke-skywalker-about-his-father/

 

I disagree. The reason Ben isn't full out is simply guilt and inability to face his past. Luke already became the hit man at DS1. That was the Rebel mess not the bitter Jedi.

 

Michael Stockpile takes a very similar tack in I, Jedi. So, for that matter, did one of the essayists in Star Wars On Trial - the one defending the "moral core" of Star Wars, by saying that the happy ending in ROTJ is entirely due to Luke not obeying his Masters.

 

Interesting analysis. Don't agree with it necessarily, but interesting. Luke did fail at the cave though because he brought his weapons in with him, instead of just relying on the Force like he should have.

 

Yoda seems to imply a different reason

YODA: "Told you, did he?"

LUKE: "Yes."

YODA: "Unexpected this is. And unfortunate."

LUKE: "Unfortunate that I know the truth?"

YODA: "No. Unfortunate that you rushed to face him... that incomplete was your training... that not ready for the burden were you."

It seems that Yoda and Obi-wan had decided to keep Luke in the dark until he was done with his training, so that he could understand why his father did what he did and became what he became. But Luke's impatience was too great and he left before he was ready. Killing Vader though, was a necessity since he is now part of the problem and thus said problem needs to be eliminated. Whether or not either one of them believed that Luke would go a different path is uncertain.

 

In A New Hope: Infinities, Luke stays - and the moment Yoda thinks Luke's been trained enough, he tells Luke.

 

The author followed the line of reasoning well.

 

Yet both Yoda and Ben still stress that Vader's got to die, and that redemption is impossible. They tell Luke to put aside his compassion, kill Vader, then go after the Emperor. As I've posted elsewhere, I think Luke saved the day by finding his own path (convince Anakin to turn away from the Dark Side), rather than the one offered by Ben & Yoda, or the one offered by Palpatine or Vader (turn Sith and rule).

 

But in the end, Vader still dies. That was a necessity. My comment was whether or not they believed that Luke would kill Vader, or that he would find a way to turn him back was uncertain.

 

I think the implication was that if Luke had undergone the complete Jedi training,and was in the proper frame of mind to balance his compassion with his duty,they would've told him the truth before sending him off to face Vader.

It's like comparing Anakin's "Lower the ship" moment in AOTC to Kenobi's "I'll do what I must" attitude of fighting Vader. They wanted (I guess 'hoped' )that Luke,having been fully prepared would be able to do what needed to be done without letting his personal feelings get in the way.

I can't really see them keeping it from him until after fighting Vader.

LUKE: "Well,I just defeated the Dark Side,killed Vader and The Emperor!.....What's wrong?"

YODA: "...er...Have something to tell you,Obi-Wan,does..."

OBI-WAN's GHOST:"...uh,remember I told you your father was dead? Well, he is now! Vader was really your dad."

LUKE: "Noooooooooooo!"

 

Just like their plan from the beginning, and the way I see it they were trying to set Luke along that line of thought, believing he was the only one who could accomplish it:

"Destroy the Sith, we MUST."

"Twisted by the Darkside young Skywalker has become. The boy you trained, GONE, he is-CONSUMED by Darth Vader."

It seems that they didn't believe trying to redeem Anakin was either time-worthy, or even possible. It seems they believed that once the Sith were destroyed, they could then begin putting the pieces of the Republic back together-they never gave up on the Republic, even when things seemed hopeless. Yoda was surprised to hear Vader acknowledged his connection to Luke. Meaning they must have not had any faith that he could be brought back to the light. But Luke, knowing now that Vader is his father, promised himself he would try-as family should. Were Padme alive still, I believe she'd do the same. She still believed there was good in him, just as Luke did. But because Obi Wan and Yoda are not family, and because they weren't thinking of "their friend, Anakin" but rather the fate of the galaxy as a whole (as a Jedi should), they decided to do whatever necessary to return to peace. So in a way, Luke ended up accomplishing the right things, albeit with the "wrong" intentions-in their eyes...And they weren't oblivious to how dangerous it all was.

"To a dark place this line of thought will carry us. Great care we must take."

I know that line was for something else, but I believe it applies here as well.

IMO there were sufficient details throughout ROTS and ROTJ that explained why it was handled this way...

 

Except for one thing...

"The part I am working on now is mostly about Darth Vader, who he is, where he came from, how he became Luke and Leia's father, what his relationship to Ben is. In Jedi, the film is really about the redemption of this fallen angel. Ben is the fitting good angel, and Vader is the bad angel who started off good. All these years Ben has been waiting for Luke to come of age so that he can become a Jedi and redeem his father. That's what Ben has been doing, but you don't know this in the first film."

--George Lucas, Star Wars-A New Hope: The Annotated Screenplays, 1997

Which may mean that Obi-wan might have had an ulterior motive believing that it was possible and was being a bit manipulative.

 

I don't agree with that quote. I mean, Obi-wan chops Anakin to pieces on Mustafar, and then nineteen years later he wants Luke to redeem him? I'm not buying it. Obi-wan wanted Luke to kill Vader. He thought Vader was irredeemable. But he was wrong, and Luke was right.

Why did Yoda and Obi-wan lie to Luke? Because they wanted Luke to kill Vader, and they didn't want anything to complicate the task or possibly stop Luke from killing Vader. Personally, I don't think Yoda or Ben were ever planning to tell Luke the truth about his father.

 

Yoda and Obi-Wan were just as arrogant as they were in the prequels. Instead of learning from the fact that they were destroyed by the clones, they still thought of common people as inferior and weak. They had little trust in the rebellion. When Leia is about to die, an important rebellion leader, they oppose the rescue mission and would rather leave her to die. Instead they put all their cards into one force-sensitive saviour, Luke Skywalker. He is their instrument to bring forth the destruction of the Sith, their ancient enemies. They don't seem to know/believe that the Empire could still go on even after loosing its leaders, because everything is about force sensitives for them, they seem to have forgotten that the force is in everyone. Their plan however doesn't work so well because Luke decides not to be their marionette and forges his own path.

Now, as the old Jedi order is finally gone, there is hope that Luke Skywalker won't repeat their mistakes and views common man with respect. The one thing he has over all the old Jedi order Jedi is that he wasn't brought up in an ivory tower, but rather by simple people. His simple past will always stay in his heart and guide him in times to come.

 

Actually, It was true; From A Certain Point of View....

 

Or maybe something changed in Obi-wan's thought process that lead him to believe.

Except Yoda says that Luke would find out once he could handle the burden. It was his idea, not Obi-wan's.

She was important, but not that important. Bail Organa, Mon Mothma and a few others were still there and far more important than her. Even Leia was willing to die for her beliefs, by her own words.

LEIA: "General Kenobi, years ago you served my father in the Clone Wars. Now he begs you to help him in his struggle against the Empire. I regret that I am unable to present my father's request to you in person, but my ship has fallen under attack and I'm afraid my mission to bring you to Alderaan has failed. I have placed information vital to the survival of the Rebellion into the memory systems of this R2 unit. My father will know how to retrieve it. You must see this droid safely delivered to him on Alderaan. This is our most desperate hour. Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi, you're my only hope."

She doesn't beg Obi-wan to come rescue her. Hell, she figures that she'd be dead by the time he could mount a rescue. Same with her father. That's the point of a sacrifice. That was the lesson Luke had to accept with his friends. This is why Leia tells Luke to leave, because her life and Han's life is not more important than his life.

Except that destroying the Sith was vital in restoring the balance to the Force. Whatever happens next, the Force needed to be in balance again going forward.

 

Vader's death isn't a necessity to stop Palpatine and the Empire. Had Vader survived the DS he would have stood trial for his crimes and provided more closure for the whole galaxy.

Great post. I used to subscribe to this theory, however you can only theorize and not actually prove that Obi-Wan lied to Luke because he wanted to make him a Jedi hitman, when it is clear that both Yoda and Obi-Wan genuinely care for Luke and want him to be prepared for what they think could be his destiny.

 

Dumbledore in the Harry Potter books starts out seeing Harry as just a potential tool for bringing Voldemort down when Voldemort returns (going by book 7's "flashback scenes") - but by the end of the series he's also grown to care deeply for Harry as well.

Similar principles may apply.

 

The fact is that he's a Sith Lord and has to be dealt with. Both Sith Lords must be eliminated to restore the balance. What happens with the Empire is secondary. Given what we know about TFA supports that.

 

Or maybe not. Obi-wan seems frustrated with Luke when he refuses to kill Vader ("I can't kill my own father." "Then the emperor has already won."), and apparently he thinks Vader is "more machine than man", another pointer that Obi-wan thought Vader was past redeeming. Unless he wanted Luke to do the opposite of what he was telling Luke to do, which is extremely confusing and still doesn't really make sense.

Yeah, except for the small fact that Obi-wan had like three years to tell Luke the truth (whether alive or as a force ghost) and he never did.
And anyway, he could he could have just told the truth on Dagobah. Just because your friend lies doesn't mean you have to, too.

 

In the ROTJ novel, there's extra sentences in a lot of places. In the Yoda deathbed scene, he also says "Obi-Wan would have told you long ago, had I let him ... now, a great darkness do you carry. Fear for you, I do."

 

It does? The Empire is back in TFA, despite the Sith Lord's deaths.

 

I think the theory is that rebalancing the Force just requires the death of the Sith Lords - other Darksiders can still exist, the Empire can still exist - and yet the force be rebalanced.

 

I doubt the force is in balance in TFA. The force is more complicated than just the force USERS.