CT Why Palpatine's Empire hate non human races so much?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Slowpokeking, Oct 13, 2012.

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  1. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    The Essential Guide to Warfare had some interesting reasons why the fleet at Endor was so tiny- the Emperor had sent two huge fleets to blockade the two most important Rebel worlds- Chandrila (home of Mon Mothma, leader of the Rebellion) and Mon Calamari (where all those lumpy Star Cruisers were built). When the DS2 was able to move, it would have gone to both of those worlds and destroyed them to intimidate the rest of the galaxy into submission.
  2. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    Let's watch the personal remarks
  3. Yunners Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2006
    star 2
    Just making an observation, but I'll behave. :oops:
  4. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

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    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    That's what the snitch button in the upper left is for. Of course, using it results in a 24 hour ban for snitching. (joke)
  5. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Early EU magazines did discuss this sort of thing:

    STAR WARS: OFFICIAL POSTER MONTHLY #6
    Published March 1978
    http://theforce.net/image_popup/image_popup_global.asp?Image=timetales/misc/arcana/post6-03.jpg

    as well as first establishing that the stormtroopers felt that "the only good alien is a dead alien"

    STAR WARS: OFFICIAL POSTER MONTHLY #4
    Published January 1978
    http://theforce.net/image_popup/image_popup_global.asp?Image=timetales/misc/arcana/post4-03.jpg
  6. artooo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2012
    star 1
    He hated them because Lucas didn't have enough in the budget of the OT to have people running around in costumes portraying them so it was just easier to have people as imperials...
    Last edited by artooo, Nov 25, 2012
  7. gezvader28 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2003
    star 4

    er... it did survive . The rebel alliance saved it .
    Random Comments likes this.
  8. JediMasterChiefYoda Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 8, 2003
    star 3
    Is there really any in-movie proof that the Empire was racist? The fact that all the Star Destroyers we saw inside (and we saw inside less then 7) were manned by humans doesn't really prove that. It makes sense to use only one species per ship or unit. It's cheaper and easier stock a unit/ship with one kind of equipment designed for best use by any specie than try to keep up with the work (both paper and logicistal) of supplying a ship/unit with multiple weapons, medical supplies and food when you can put one (or one predominatly with certain jobs being done fleet/army-wide (ie, navigation) by one group.

    It may look racist, but "from a certain point of view," it makes prefect sense that crews are divided by race.
  9. johnthejedi24 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 2004
    star 3
    They are racist because various canon EU sources state they are racist. In fact as an earlier poster said, a divided,depressed and antagonistic galaxy fuels the Dark Side of the force. Which means more power for Palpatine. Per the EU anti-alien feelings and policies had been brewing in the Core Worlds(Those who make the policies and hold the power) for decades prior to the Empire, the Clone Wars and its alien supporters just exacerbated the situation to its eventual conclusion.

    Dooku himself was a human supremacist, he and Palps just used people regardless of species, all that mattered was that they did their job and were expendable. It would still have taken years for policies to take effect. You can just wall up non-humans in a ghetto the minute you become Emperor. Frankly I have a feeling that the Emperor did not really care one way or another and left the minute management of the Empire to his advisors, Moffs and Governors. They are the ones who spelt out Imperial policy.
  10. BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost

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    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    The Imperial army, as is implied by the end of ROTS when you see all of the exact same (basically) looking dudes manning the Star Destroyers, is basically stocked with clones. The Stormtroopers are clones. They're easier to manage. Humans run the whole deal but they command clones. It's just gonna come off as prejuiced like that and as two decades went on, humans rose up the ranks (due to the fact that the imperials are compromised of a whole lot of clones) & the non-human were pushed down the ranks, by the time the OT runs around, it's just wall-to-wall humans. I doubt Sidious even cared. If Dooku was a primary humanist, that was just something Sidious went along with to manipulate him. Also, as mentioned above, I can see Sidious pushing an anti-alien agenda to keep his populace distrustful and angry and easily pushed around.
    Last edited by BigAl6ft6, Nov 26, 2012
  11. rumsmuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2000
    star 7
    "Where are you taking this...thing?" Anh
    tsunami1138 and Yunners like this.
  12. Adrian the Cool Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 3
    Human racism/speciesm against non-Humans is regular within the Star Wars universe.

    The Republic too was rascist during the Pius Dei Era. "Pius Dei" was an organization of religious fanatics who managed to become Supreme Chancellors over a period of a thousand years. The Pius Dei Chancellors all were Human, rascist and pro-Core Worlds, they've proclaimed crusades of the Core against the Rim, to bring it under the Core's control, start a settling program to colonisize worlds in the Outer Rim with Humans and protect those Human settlers from non-Humans.

    Humans evolved from Zhell on the planet Coruscant, thence called Notron. They battled endlessly with the Taungs, which evolved on Coruscant, too. Humans were organized in the Thirteen Nations of Zhell. Their capital city was build upon a mountain, because there is was better protected from the Taung. But they didn't realize the montain was in fact a volcano, so after a eruption destroyed their city they fell into subjugation of the Taungs. Humanity could have gotten wiped out those days, but they managed to get free of their slavers and drove them off the planet. After this they urbanized Coruscant, got enslaved and taken away by Celestials and Rakata, build generation and sleeper ships to settle worlds in the Core and Colonies and later invented the modern Hyperdrive on Corellia together with the Duros.

    The total Human population may be something about 10 - 20 percent.

    Out-universe-reason is, because in real life their are only Humans, in the movies other species need costums, puppets and CGI effects which are expensive, take a lot of time and ressource and look a bit unrealistic (OK, the latter only back then in the 70s/80s). If the majority of beings is Human in the movies, it has to be so in other works, too, for continuity.

    Otherwise, most, about 90% of the main characters are Humans. The reason for the movies is, because effects for characters you see all the time from near must be better/more realistic than those for sidekicks/background characters, so it would be more expensive and seeing only costumed people, puppets or CGI would be a bit... synthecally, unrealistic or whatever. The reason why it is so in novels, comics and videogames... Maybe racism, too, because the Star Wars audience is made up by Humans and they can identify themselves better with other Human characters then members of made-up species.

    Palpatine himself was not rascist, he was Human, is master Darth Plagueious Muun, his apprentice Maul Zabrak, his friend Mas Amedda a Chagarian, and Sly Moore, forget the name. Thrawn was Chiss, too. But many Imperial Officials were rascist. Not the Emperor himself.

    Besides, what is the defination of "aliens" in Star Wars? On Earth, everything not from Earth is alien. In Star Wars, from Terran point-of-view, everything is alien, even Terran species like Humans, Ponies and Ducks, which appear in Star Wars, too, but are from other planets (Coruscant, Endor, Naboo). From an in-universe point of view, everything not from Coruscant must be alien, if my theory is right.

    Out-universe: Every living being in Star Wars is alien, because nothing is from Earth. Even species or their look-alikes* which can be found on Earth, like Humans, Ducks, Pythons and Horses.
    *Star Wars Humans, Ducks and other species look like those from Earth, but there is no confirmation they're in fact the same species.

    In-universe: Humans, Taungs, Beton Hawks and Duracret Slugs are no aliens, they are from Coruscant. Near-Human species like Mirials, Zabraks, Arkanians and Chiss are no aliens, too, because they originate from Humans and so Coruscant. Everything else is alien, like Duros, Mon Calamari, Banthas et cetera. Ducks and Dogs are alien, too, because they're not from Coruscant.
  13. Brenapp Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2012
    star 2
    I find it hard to believe Palpatine himself was pro-human/anti-alien; the fact he took a Zabrak as his apprentice would seem to contradict this, and there are other non-human lackeys of his in the films (who, I believe, were perfectly aware that he was manipulating both sides in the war so he could forge an empire from the carnage).
  14. rumsmuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2000
    star 7
    Palpatine isn't a racist but his core supporters in the empire are.
  15. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    In the Zahn books (Outbound Flight in particular) it's stated that he dislikes nonhumans, and that it won't be easy for him to overcome his prejudices to work with Thrawn in the future.

    It's possible that he's much less prejudiced toward "near-humans" like Chiss & Zabrak, than toward truly alien beings.

    Tarkin comes across as very anti-alien in his "Humans are the future" speech in Rogue Planet, as does Dooku in the RoTS novelization.
  16. rumsmuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2000
    star 7
    Force users and a blue geniuses get a pass. I skimmed Outbound Flight so I may have overlooked that. I'm well aware of Tarkin and Dooku's racist ways
  17. Samuel Vimes Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 3
    Something that I have noticed when watching the OT is that not only is the Empire made up of humans but mostly it is white male humans. Are there any non-white imperials seen? Are there any women with high rank in the empire?

    So it seems that the empire doesn't just discriminate against non-humans, they also discriminate against non-white humans and female humans.

    Bye for now.
    Old Stoneface
  18. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    They're rare, but they do exist even in the Palpatine era EU- the comics (Marvel, and the Rebellion/Empire series) have female Imperial officers appear occasionally.

    Isard (head of Imperial Intelligence) and Daala (Admiral, appointed by Tarkin) are two of the best known. The Jedi Academy Trilogy suggests Palpatine had a prejudice against women, but a subtle one that simply made it hard (but not completely impossible) for them to attain high rank.
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Nov 28, 2012
  19. Yunners Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2006
    star 2
    Isard achieved her rank by killing her father, who was her predecessor. Daala simply knocked boots with Tarkin, the old dog..
  20. Sistros Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2010
    star 6
    "where are you taking this..thing" doesn't imply xenophobia at all, it implies he had no idea what species he was

    so "thing" is racist while "walking carpet" isn't?


    hmm, a very strange case of "bad guys are racist" "good guys can't be"
  21. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    "Being" would have been more neutral-sounding.

    The linked March 1978 issue of Star Wars Poster Monthly, suggests that both the Empire and the Rebellion are human-dominated - and speculates that there may be reasons, like prejudice, wars between aliens & humans, etc.

    Return of the Jedi established that aliens are a part of the Rebellion.
  22. Sistros Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2010
    star 6
    that would require that the individual wasn't an a**

    however it's all semantics, to say this one guy calling a wookiee "a thing" would also imply Leia of being the same: a xenophobe.

    And for good measure even if this ONE individual was racist/xenophobic, doesn't mean Palpatine or the rest of the empire is.

    That would be like saying McDonalds is racist because one of it's employees told a politically incorrect joke.
  23. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    True. The movies say little- but the EU says a lot.
  24. Sistros Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2010
    star 6
    I'd be more inclined to believe the Empire was racist/xenophobic if it had decided on a planet that wasn't occupied by mainly humanoids to blow to pieces

    but then again, I don't read too much EU :p


    I just don't think there is enough evidence movie-wise to suggest they are.
  25. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Aside from the fact that (by RoTJ) we've seen a lot of aliens in the Rebellion, and none in the Imperial military.
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