Why people are not getting Episode I DVD

Discussion in 'The Phantom Menace' started by Ewan_tw, Oct 8, 2001.

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  1. Riley Man Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 19, 1999
    star 5
    Now that I'm looking at it again, the article seems to completely contradict itself: [ While VideoScan does not take into account Wal-Mart, Toys 'R' Us or Amazon.com, "Mummy" outsold "Menace" by 2-to-1 in their respective first weeks at Wal-Mart and Kmart, industry sources said. ]

    First it says they don't take Wal-Mart, Toys 'R' Us, or amazon.com into account.

    Then it says "Mummy" outsold "Menace" at Wal-Mart and K-Mart.

    So what is it? Are they taking Wal-Mart into account or not?
  2. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    I think what it means is that they have information on first week sales from Wal-Mart and Kmart from a different source.

    On a side-note, i can't believe that the "lamest posters" thread made it so long without being locked. Well done lamest posters thread! :)

  3. Darth23 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 1999
    star 4
    That's part of the problem of not having the full article. The Force.net basically posted that ANOTHER site posted that ANOTHER site reported this info.

    I believe the artical says that Video scan doesn't take into account Wal Mart, K-mart and Amazon (and other online stores, I believe), but that an INDEPENDENT check of sources at Wal Mart and K mart showed The Mummy beating TPM 2 to 1 and that Amazon has TPM winning.

    Which DOES NOT, by the way, mean that The Mummy Returns sold twice as many units as TPM EVERYWHERE. (The Force.net's sub-caption is very misleading, surprise surprise).

    According to the Video ScanChart at HollywoodReporter.com, their chart has TPM winning the week (selling 100 units for every 17 units of The Mummy Returns - which is, I believe TPMs first week vs The Mummy's second week), and that result is 80-85% of total sales. If however, The Mummy beat Phantom Menace handily and Wal and K marts, then TPM didnt' break the Mummy's record.

    We still don't have any actual NUMBERS. I'm assuming that he full article gives their estimate of how many units TPM DID sell, it it wasn't 2.2 million.
  4. DarKnight Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2000
    star 2
    The lack of sales just demonstrates what alot of critics have said all along. TPM doesn't have what the OT has in the way of story telling, action, drama, light-hearted comaradrie and chemistry between the actors.

    TPM the DVD doesn't have the anticipation that TPM the cinematic feature had to drive sales.
  5. Darth23 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 1999
    star 4
    "The lack of sales just demonstrates what alot of critics have said all along. TPM doesn't have what the OT has in the way of story telling, action, drama, light-hearted comaradrie and chemistry between the actors.


    TPM the DVD doesn't have the anticipation that TPM the cinematic feature had to drive sales. "

    SO does that mean that if the actual sales figures are closer to the record then the opposite of what you said is true?

    A bad sales performance desn't mean TPM sucks, and a Good one doesn't prove that it rules. We don't have any indication that the sales were 'bad' only that they weren't record breaking like FOX originally reported.


    How did TPM do vs The Mummy Returns at Best Buy, or Circuit City, or Barnes and Noble?

    Right - we don't know.

    At least, not yet. :p
  6. Darth23 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 1999
    star 4
    "On a side-note, i can't believe that the "lamest posters" thread made it so long without being locked. Well done lamest posters thread!"

    Hear hear!

    For a Trolley - potentially flamey thread, it seemed remarkably well mannered. :)
  7. stone_jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2001
    star 4
    How did TPM do vs The Mummy Returns at Best Buy, or Circuit City, or Barnes and Noble?


    I was at a local Best Buy the first week each of the movies came out, and they looked pretty even to me. (Remember, I don't have either. ;) )Then again, I was told that when Croughing Tiger came out, it outsold both of those movies at this particular store. So my two cents probably don't really matter that much. :p

  8. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    I would like to point out to Jabbadabbadoo or whatever his name is (and why he even spends time on this forum instead of at a forum for his precious LOTR is something I will never understand) that many SW fans disliked ESB when it first came out. I was one of them. I thought it was boring. In fact, many people thought for a long time was that ESB was the "weakest" of the SW movies, while ROTJ was the best.

    Boy, has that opinion turned around. Nowadays ESB is the popular favorite, and unlike ROTJ it is considered a classic movie even in non-SW circles. I myself now adore ESB and think ROTJ is just lame.

    Many disliked TPM when it came out in theaters. I wasn't crazy about it myself. I thought it was dull. Critics bashed it to the sky (although critics bashed EVERY SW movie to the sky, as TPM pi**ers-and-moaners tend to forget), and since TPM is the first SW movie to be released in the Internet age, more people were more likely to hear ad nauseum how bad it was.

    It became fashionable and a supposed sign of intelligence and savvy to complain about how bad TPM was, and woe is you if you liked it and were older than 6. The media disseminated this supposed fan discontent with something approaching glee, much like they're now pitting LOTR against SW and hyping LOTR as practically the Second Coming in movies. I am sure that even if FOTR isn't as spectacular as the hype has it, critics will still gush over it and make none of the nasty comments about the merchandise and hype that were made about TPM.

    I changed my mind once I saw TPM through unjaundiced eyes, and found it to be a beautiful and thoughtful piece of work, one of Lucas' best. I wish people would let go of the hate in their hearts and give TPM an honest chance, not sitting there all defensively and saying, "This sucks, it's so disappointing, it doesn't even begin to live up to the hype." No movie ever can.

    It doesn't help that hyperbole such as E! Online naming TPM the worst sequel of all time is not thought of as hyperbole, but as the "honest truth."

    Why is Internet fandom so damned nasty? Why do people devote so much time to bashing a movie they hate, and making useless comparisons to unrelated movies?

    But I have digressed in a major way from my originally intended point, which was to say that in 50 years or whatever, I think the assessment of TPM will undergo as massive a change as that of ESB--which, by the way, has the lowest monetary gross of any of the SW movies.
  9. Luukeskywalker Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 23, 1999
    star 5
    Guys, if you remember when the TPM VHS came out that exact SAME publication reported low sales for the VHS.

    Their service fails to take into account the mentioned retailers.

    Trust me, if The Mummy Returns DVD beat out TPM, is was not by much. There is no way in hell that The Mummy Returns could sell two times more than a Star Wars movie in one week like that.

    If the Mummy Returns had the popularity like The Matrix or Shrek, then I could maybe believe it. But come on guys, its the Mummy Returns.

    Simple math here people. Simple math.
  10. C-3P0 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 20, 2001
    star 4
    DarKnight,

    But that's just it, the latest article does not show a lack of sales. It is vague beyond belief and still does not give any numbers.
  11. stone_jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2001
    star 4
    I wish people would let go of the hate in their hearts and give TPM an honest chance, not sitting there all defensively and saying, "This sucks, it's so disappointing, it doesn't even begin to live up to the hype." No movie ever can.


    I don't believe I've ever said the reason I dislike TPM is because it didn't live up to the hype. I dislike it because it is a weak movie, on par with several of the FX blockbusters Hollywood loves to churn out these days. (I know, GL isn't technically a part of Hollywood, but that doesn't excuse him ;) )

    Coincidentally, I even predicted that the TPM dvd would sell through the roof. Here's proof: The fact that TPM has the words STAR WARS on it will result in tons more people buying it than usual.

    Tons!!! :D

  12. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    How is TPM a weak movie and like all the mindless blockbusters that get churned out?

  13. stone_jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2001
    star 4
    This is my opinion, but it has been reinforced by several people here. ;)

    Weak acting; weak pacing; boring, dull, long sequence that does little to advance the story = weak movie. I could name more, but you already know what I'm going to say. :p
  14. Darth23 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 1999
    star 4
    The other don't have that Evil Jar Jar getting farted on. ;)

    -

    the problem is that it's not a whole article, it's just the juicy lead and the rest is locked behind HollywoodRoeprters Premium Services door. I think that if they bothered to do an independant check of Fox's claims, then the full article is probably pretty reliable.

    The fact that FOx didn't originally release figures, probably cause them to snoop around a bit.


    The Chart also says that Year to Date TPM is number 8 and The Mummy Returns is 13, so it looks like TPM has sold more overall then TMR, of course that's only and estimate of 80-85% of the total. (excludign Wal-K Mart and the online stores).
  15. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    --Weak acting--
    Liam Neeson was damn good, Pernilla August was damn good, Ian McDiarmid was terrific. The rest of the cast was just fine, and since when do you go to a SW movie expecting fabulous acting? The OT is full of outright bad acting. Even the stronger actors in the cast (i.e., Harrison Ford, Alec Guinness) have many cringe-worthy moments.

    --Weak pacing--
    What was weak about it? Please explain. There were less exciting stretches, but the same is true of the OT. In fact, ANH takes a good hour to get going. ESB is often ponderous. ROTJ starts off with a bang and then is a snooze until the final battle.

    --boring,--
    What was boring about it? Are you referring to the dialogue heavy scenes, or that you had to PAY ATTENTION in order to understand the plot, which is far more complex than the usual plot of SW?

    --dull,--
    See above.

    --long sequence that does little to advance the story--
    Which sequence? I thought they all fit in pretty well and advanced the movie nicely.

    By the way, other people backing up your opinion doesn't make it override alternate opinions.
  16. stone_jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2001
    star 4
    Shelley, is there one time when a basher can post something and have you not refute it? I have explained my thinking on all this many times, you have presented your side of the argument many times, and I don't really feel like getting into this again. In fact, it was the little discussion in a now closed thread between us that got the mods thinking about these new rules, if I'm not mistaken. Why else would ND say that he is disappointed? Because there seemed to be a lack of threads where people could state their opinion without getting flamed or ridiculed in response. I'm not accusing you of this, just stating the reason for his disappointment.

    Let's agree on this: you like the movie and I didn't. My original point, that you seem to have missed, was that I never said I didn't like the movie because it failed to live up to the hype. I stated my reasons for not liking it. I went so far as to say that it would sell a whole bunch of DVD's, which it has. Let's let it rest, shall we? This place was just starting to become fun. ;)



  17. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    Thanks, I think, for attributing so much importance to me and posts that I wrote.

    By the way, I don't understand what your point was in saying that you didn't like TPM and it had nothing to do with it not liveing up to the hype. That is ONE of the reasons bashers give for not liking it, but not the only one. I was asking, rhetorically, why the bashers can't just watch the movie with a truly open mind.

    stone_jedi, why do you devote so much time to a movie you didn't like? I didn't like "Titanic," but I don't go to James Cameron sites and complain about how much I hated it.
  18. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    --Shelley, is there one time when a basher can post something and have you not refute it?--
    There are many times when bashers can and do post something which I don't refute, for a multitude of reasons. I don't stalk bashers.
  19. stone_jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2001
    star 4
    I was asking, rhetorically, why the bashers can't just watch the movie with a truly open mind.


    I guess I wasn't clear. I meant to say that I did watch the movie with an open mind the first time I saw it. I wasn't sure if I liked it or not, or if the things I didn't like were really in there, so I went and saw it again. Then when all that stuff was confirmed, I really started to dislike it.

    why do you devote so much time to a movie you didn't like? I didn't like "Titanic," but I don't go to James Cameron sites and complain about how much I hated it.

    Because I love the OT (I originally came here before TPM came out, but never posted at all) and would hate to see the rest of the prequels turn out like TPM did. The main thing is that this is a place where I can vent my frustrations and find people with similar likes/dislikes and the same desire to vent their frustrations. It's probably a related reason to why you come here: to find people you like to talk to about the movies. That said, I don't post exclusively in this forum. I also go into the OT forum, and the JC Community forums as well. In fact, I really like the new Senate Forum. :)



  20. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    "I myself now adore ESB and think ROTJ is just lame."

    Shelly, it's great to know we agree on this. Actually, I think TPM is lame for many of the same reasons that ROTJ is lame. During the production of ROTJ, Lucas was quoted with this rallying cry to his troops: "Dare to be cute!" ROTJ and TPM proved, I think, that while Lucas continues to dare to be cute, he doesn't really know what cute is. Ewoks weren't cute. Neither was Jar Jar or Jake Lloyd. They were "just lame."

  21. Riley Man Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 19, 1999
    star 5
    Well, back on topic...
    All that recent report seems to show is that we can't really trust what anybody says about DVD sales.

    BTW, ROTJ is still my favourite movie of all time. :)
  22. Darth23 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 1999
    star 4
    Not totally - Earnest was right aboot one thing.... deceptive Fox press releases. :p

    Maybe Rupert Murdoch wants to embarass GL.

    At the end of the year there should be soe good sales data for dvd, hopefully we'll find out how many copies the number one dvd sold, at least.

    I still kind of think it will be Shrek. I'm pretty sure TPM will end up at number 2 or number 1.

  23. KotoOgami Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 17, 2000
    star 2
    Please allow me to put in my eleven cents...

    It's one thing to state an opinion and something totally different to say "It was a weak movie." That is attempting to state your opinion as fact. "I think it was a weak movie.", or even "It's a weak movie, IMO." would seem more appropriate.

    When I was young the Hoth scenes of ESB bored me to tears. That's right. Now that I'm older I can appreciate them a bit more, but really, for me, the picture doesn't really pick up until Vader marches in to Echo Base.

    I love TPM. I can never pick a favorite SW picture, but at the moment it is definitely TPM. And people! ROTJ isn't "lame"! It's just got a weak middle act! The last reels more than make up for that, however! All this is just my opinion of course! :)

    Anyway, to get back on topic..what is with tfn's alarmist headline? I can't believe that TMR sold more copies, I just don't see how that makes sense. No offense to TMR, it was kinda fun (I kept waiting for the opening credits, 20 minutes into it I realized that there just weren't going to be any and realized that the movie had "started"), but I just don't see the average household rushing to the store to pick up a copy of the DVD..
  24. Darth23 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 1999
    star 4
    The Mummy Returns sold more copies in its first week than The Phantom Menace did. (2.2 million - a record). That's all the article says.

    According to Vidoescan's chart, TPM is number 8, year-to-date after a week and a half, and The Mummt Returns is 13, y-t-d.

    That's mostly all we know, for now.

    Mayeb I'll sign up for HollywoodReporter.com, Premium services for a month so that I can see the whole article. I'm sure they'll cancel my sub if I liberally quite from it. ;)

  25. Darth23 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 1999
    star 4
    Ok, so I broke down ad blew 15 bucks on the Premium Services for HollywoodReporter.com for a month. It's a rip off, you get to see 10 full articles then they start charging you 10 - 25 cents for each aditional article you look at.

    I guess if youre actually in the business it's worth it, or something.


    So here's the entire article:


    'The Mummy' vs. 'Menace': That's a wrap

    Nov. 01, 2001
    By Brett Sporich


    An independent review of first-week DVD sales shows that 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment's "Star Wars: Episode I -- The Phantom Menace" did not break the first-week DVD sales record set by Universal Studios Home Video's "The Mummy Returns."

    Despite a Fox news release and related stories in the media claiming that "Menace" had broken "Mummy's" record, VideoScan research shows that the "Menace" DVD came up short in a first-week sales comparison.

    While VideoScan does not take into account Wal-Mart, Toys 'R' Us or Amazon.com, "Mummy" outsold "Menace" by 2-to-1 in their respective first weeks at Wal-Mart and Kmart, industry sources said. "Menace" DVD sales did top "Mummy" on Amazon.com.

    Overall, DVD sales show that while "Mummy" continues to lead in total sales, "Menace" is gaining ground quickly, taking the top DVD sales slot for the week ending Oct. 21, and it leads VideoScan's First Alert DVD sales chart for the week ending Oct. 28.

    Fox's Eddie Murphy starrer "Dr. Dolittle 2" topped the video rental chart its debut week, earning an estimated $7.3 million after five days on rental shelves, Video Store magazine research shows.

    "Mummy" placed second on the rental chart, earning more than $7 million last week, for a cumulative total of $38.1 million.

    Columbia TriStar Home Entertainment's debut of "Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within" was the third most-rented video last week, earning $5.2 million after five days on rental shelves.

    VideoScan is a service of VNU and ACNielsen that collects VHS and DVD sales data from a sampling of all categories of retail stores. VideoScan charts do not include sales data from Wal-Mart, Toys 'R' Us or Amazon.com. Most other sell-through retailers are represented.

    Video Store magazine, a leading business-to-business weekly serving the home entertainment industry, compiles and analyzes VHS and DVD rental data through an interactive methodology using a multisource predictive model with data from a statistically significant national sample of video retailers.


    ---------------

    So TPM didn't take the record, but it looks like it's gaining ground of The Mummy Returns (big surprise). To say that sales are 'bad' would I think, be completely wrong. Personally I'm surprised that TPM came so close, it's a 2 year old film and there was only a limited amount of advertising about the release - especially compared to the large number of Mummy Returns ads I saw.

    I think that TPM will still be the number one or two DVD this year, (It will be TPM and Shrek) and that it will at least come close to Gladiator's 5.5 million unit record.
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