CT Why save Sidious multiple times if you wanted him dead?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Mace Windu's Cousin, Jul 18, 2017.

  1. Mace Windu's Cousin Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2015
    star 1
    There was several instances where Vader could have just let Palpatine die but chose to save him. For example


    Sidious almost being killed by a bomb placed in his chair or when he was dying and needed medicial help from the Jedi prison.



    Yet, this same Vader plotted multiple times and recruited people to try and help him take Sidious out so he could rule.

    So why then if vader wanted Sidious dead, would he go out of his WAY countless times to save his life?
  2. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 8
    Vader wants to take Sidious out - but only after he's learned everything he thinks he needs to know from him.

    Thus, he can plot against Sidious, as plans for the day when he knows enough, and yet keep saving him, because he feels he doesn't know enough yet.
  3. Martoto77 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2016
    star 4
    But what about Palpatine admitting that he still needs to discover the power restore life? That he doesn't already have it?
    Has Vader been patiently waiting for progress reports from Palpatine? Or were Vader and Palpatine working on it together? When did the penny drop that he'd been duped? Did it ever drop?
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  4. Iron_lord Force Ghost

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    Sep 2, 2012
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    The "take your father's place at my side" (implied "by killing him") probably convinced Vader that his waiting was all for nothing.
  5. Martoto77 Jedi Knight

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    Aug 6, 2016
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    I can't imagine Vader waiting 20 years for anything.
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  6. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
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    Apparently Palpatine specifically used addictive chemicals in Vader's suit that were highly controlled only by his most trusted servants. Betraying Palpatine was a death sentence for Vader.
  7. Martoto77 Jedi Knight

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    Aug 6, 2016
    star 4
  8. DARTHLINK Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2005
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    Because those times he was surrounded by witnesses who would wonder why Vader just stood there and let Sidious die. Vader does want Sidious dead, but he'd probably want to do it discreetly. If he had simply let Sidious get blown up/die from the plague, the Imperial High Command would be very suspicious indeed and want to investigate. This would spell trouble for Vader.

    It also doesn't help that Sidious can read Vader's movements, so if he TRIES to attack at any other time, all Sidious has to do is zap him and it's all over for Vader.

    Know that bit when he finally DOES kill Sidious? He was alone with Sidious (target) and Luke (who wouldn't really care at all) and Sidious was too distracted to pay attention to Vader's actions. The circumstances had to literally be JUST SO for Vader to kill Sidious without (1) angering the Imperial government and (2) getting killed for his troubles by his intended victim.
    Last edited by DARTHLINK, Jul 19, 2017
  9. Martoto77 Jedi Knight

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    Aug 6, 2016
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    Except that he wouldn't allow Luke to kill the Emperor when they were all alone.
  10. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 8
    ROTJ novel:

    Vader was impressed by Luke's speed. Pleased, even. It was a pity, almost, he couldn't let the boy kill the Emperor yet. Luke wasn't ready for that, emotionally. There was still a chance Luke would return to his friends if he destroyed the Emperor now. He needed more tutelage, firsttraining by both Vader and Palpatine — before he'd be ready to assume his place at Vader's right hand, ruling the galaxy.
    So Vader had to shepherd the boy through periods like this, stop him from doing damage in the wrong places — or in the right places prematurely.
  11. Martoto77 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2016
    star 4
    So the no witnesses thing is irrelevant. Needing Luke to be join him on the dark side first is what held Vader back.

    But he was supposedly unaware of Luke for the first twenty years of his apprenticeship. So those twenty years must have provided no opportunities for Vader.

    I just don't see Vader being that patient. His whole character and career as a Jedi is supposed to be rash, impetuous recklessness. Once he becomes a Sith he's the man who waits for his chance power?


    My belief is that the is disappointed in himself and no longer believes he can achieve any greater power. The alternative to being zealously subservient is explaining to himself how he wound up that way and realising that he's trapped himself.
    Last edited by Martoto77, Jul 19, 2017
  12. Lord Sith Harloxzz Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2016
    star 2
    Vader needed to prove himself as a Sith and as someone loyal to Sidious because he was his apprentice like Dooku with Sidious

    All the Sith betray each other but also work together

    No apprentice kills his master until he sees an unrepeatable opportunity. If Vader tried to kill his master and Sidious discovers his plan he would destroy him
  13. Bob the X-Winger Jedi Knight

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    Jan 8, 2016
    star 2
    Vader was more of a machine programmed by the Empire. I get this impression in ANH. Ceases to function once the Emperor gives his word.
  14. Sith Lord 2015 Jedi Knight

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    Oct 30, 2015
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    There was a higher authority than Vader in the Empire that would judge him? This sure is not hinted at in the movies. Vader doesn't take orders from anyone but the Emperor himself. This must be a EU source.
  15. Anakin.Skywalker Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2016
    star 5
    I don't remember where I read this, but it was something to the effect that Palpatine was really the only living person that Vader was in any way "close" to. Obviously, Luke's existence changed all that. Unfortunately I don't remember where I read this.
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  16. PMT99 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2000
    star 4
    After being chopped into pieces and burned alive, Vader realized that his "rash, impetuous recklessness" is what put him in that suit in the first place. It also stripped him of most of his potential powers thus robbing Vader of any opportunity to overthrow the Emperor. What's worse is that the Emperor can read Vader's mind like a book so there was no opening for Vader to strike until he learned that Luke is alive.
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  17. timmoishere Jedi Grand Master

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    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    Revenge of the Sith novel:

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  18. oncafar Jedi Master

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    Jan 10, 2017
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    and then the marvel comics took over and upped vader's power like in 'vader down.' i suppose one can get away with this in a comic.