Why should an audience have to

Discussion in 'The Phantom Menace' started by hawk, Oct 2, 2001.

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  1. Lukecash Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 4
    DarthStymi,

    To play devils advocate...is the {i]audience[/i] supposed to hate Jar Jar? while I agree with your post on the role Mr. Binks was supposed to play-I'm not sure that Lucas had intended for the audience to be in revolt against the character.

  2. DarthStymi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2002
    star 3
    Who knows for sure LukeCash. He seems to invoke extreme emotions either way. Love or hate. That duality is interesting in it self. Compare that duality to his role. Is he a good guy or villian? Overtly, good guy, inadvertantly working as a villain.
    If you liked what I quoted about the frog indicating destiny, and we have some idea that this destiny will lead to bad thangs, then what does Jar Jar represent?
  3. AgentCoop Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2002
    star 4
    I think all you've really proven is that Jar-Jar was a good idea, badly executed.
  4. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    If his point is correct, he was executed superbly.
  5. DarthTorgo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2002
    star 4
    Yeah, Jar-Jar was a good idea, but it was all so poorly executed, IMO.
  6. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    That's what makes him so successfully executed.
  7. Malthus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 1999
    star 4
    This thread is humorous. Probably because it's still running.

    EDIT -- And probably because I could very well see myself going back and forth with Gomer here:

    Malthus- "What are you talking about?"
    Gomer- "It was well executed"
    "No it wasn't"
    "Yes it was"
    "Nuh-uhh"
    "Yes-huh"
    "I know you are but what am I?"
    "Poo-poo-head"
    "Nerd"

    :D

    LOL!
  8. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    This thread is NOT humorous, the very fate of mankind rests on our ability (or lack of ability) to live symbiantly with the rest of creation.

    Well okay, maybe it is a little humorous.
  9. DarthTorgo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2002
    star 4
    <<That's what makes him so successfully executed. >>


    Huh? That doesn't make sense. He's a good character because he was a crappy one?
  10. ElfStar Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2001
    star 4
    Huh? That doesn't make sense. He's a good character because he was a crappy one?

    Bravo, Torgo. You just explained very succinctly the problem bashers have with gushers "explanations" of characters.

  11. Lukecash Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 4
    The point being is if Jar Jar is supposed to be a loathed creatures by both audiences and character. Then Lucas succeded in creating a character that was hated.

    If Lucas created him for the characters to loathed but the audience sympathise with...then Lucas only half succeded. Cause there are too many complaints against the character to dismiss that he was somebody the audience likes.

    If Jar Jar was too sympathetic-then the Jedi rough treatment of him would make them look like bullies. So Lucas had to find a balance it out by making him more of a buffoon than usual.

    Does that explain it a little better?

  12. Abnoonoo Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2002
    I find it sad that all of George's "yes men"
    didn't point it out that Jar Jar was a pathetic addition ( at least in the amounts he's there ) It is as lame as the excuse that the pod-race was so boringly long "because it cost so much money to develop the technology" - I own the dvd and skip the podrace and it is a much better movie... I have heard that there is an edited version, scrapping most of Jar Jar.. if they also scrap 1.5 laps of the pod-race, put some music through it and piss off that american sounding two headed commentator and replace it with something else, then the movie will be MUCH better.. Oh, and also reshoot the spacefight scene and make it less corny
  13. DarthTorgo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2002
    star 4
    <<If Jar Jar was too sympathetic-then the Jedi rough treatment of him would make them look like bullies. So Lucas had to find a balance it out by making him more of a buffoon than usual.
    >>

    Right. Just like Han was bullying 3PO in ESB. Besides, if it is a problem, you, get this, REWRITE THE OTHER CHARACTERS AROUND THIS. Make it so that they don't "bully Jar-Jar", or so that they come around and realize his importance or something. Of course, then you would have to make his importance something more then telling the Jedi about something.
  14. DarthHomer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2000
    star 5
    "It is as lame as the excuse that the pod-race was so boringly long "because it cost so much money to develop the technology" - I own the dvd and skip the podrace and it is a much better movie"

    A much more confusing movie, too :)
  15. JediAreJustHippies Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 2001
    star 1
    Jar-Jar's in the flick because Lucas thought he was cute/funny & would make for good comic relief.

    Lucas is a smart, creative guy & I'm glad that new SW movies are being made. However, some of these wacky theories people are presenting on Jar-Jar's significance are borderline insane.

    Lucas thought the audience would get a kick out of Jar-Jar's antics, but the character was so absurd that it didn't work out, period. There is absolutely no other significance hidden in Jar-Jar.
  16. DarthTorgo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2002
    star 4
    There's a theory floating around here that Jar-Jar will revealed to be evil and in league with the forces of darkness somewhere down the line. While I actually doubt this will happen, there are some convincing arguments for this floating around. And, judging by AOTC spoilers, some of Jar-Jar's actions lend a great deal of weight to this. But I hate it when people give away spoilersm so I'm not going tp reveal anything.

    For more on Jar-Jar being evil, consult the thread "Jar-Jar Binks is a Dark Jedi spy", or try your local library.
  17. Lukecash Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 4
    Actually, I was watching the DVD the other day, and more specifically the online movies that they had...the one that said "the begining." (I think)

    Lucas was sitting at his writing desk...begining the writing process. He is showen watching an silent movie comedy. a couple of guys were running on top of a train, trying to avoid getting hit by the top of a tunnel edge.

    Lucas was sitting there gaped mouth saying..."How in the world did they do that!" Lucas fell in love with putting a slap stick character like the ones in the silent movies. What I think he didn't count on is that a majority of people would not like this brand of comedy.
  18. DarthTorgo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2002
    star 4
    It's not necessarily that people don't like that brand of comedy (although some don't) it's that people find it to not be a very good example of it, or they find it to be out of place.
  19. Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2001
    star 6
  20. Jedi_Learner Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2002
    star 5
    Thank you Quixotic-Sith, much appreciated.

    "Why would someone invent a character who is so annoying that we must tolerate his very presence."

    Now I'm sure you know there are children and adults out there that like Jar Jar Binks and don't find they have to tolerate his very presense. I didn't feel I had to tolerate his presense. George Lucas wouldn't go out of his way to upset Star Wars fans intentionally, especially the older fans who love and cherish the Original Trilogy. I agree that sometimes he was stealing the scenes, but I found that rare and didn't mind it one bit. I remember C-3PO always talking and attempting to steal the scenes in the Original Trilogy, what is the problem in the friendly Gungan doing the same?
  21. hawk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2000
    star 5
    I agree, Lucas made Jar Jar because he thought he would work as a character and people would like him. Some have stated that George knew many would hate Jar Jar and he was teaching them a lesson in intolerance. Pretty silly eh Jedi_Learner?
  22. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    It might be silly if it didn't work out as Lucas knew it would.

    He said going into it that he knew a certain portion of the fan base would not be able to enjoy Jar-Jar. Just as there were some who couldn't enjoy the Ewoks in ROTJ, or Yoda being a puppet in ESB, or even the droids banter in ANH.

    He says knew that some people just wouldn't like a comedic side kick.
  23. hawk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2000
    star 5
    Where did he say this and when? Was it after JJ was already not accepted? If so, it is a lie. Noboby would create characters knowing that they would annoy a large portion of the fanbase. Why would he try and annoy the fans who made him rich? And if he didn't care about what the fans thought, then he wouldn't have cut JJ's role down to a cameo in EpII.
  24. Jedi_Learner Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2002
    star 5
    "And if he didn't care about what the fans thought, then he wouldn't have cut JJ's role down to a cameo in EpII."

    What if it was already planned Hawk, George Lucas always intended Jar Jar to have a small role in Episode II? The confines of the story didn't allow him to go beyond Courscant. Imagine him with Padme and Anakin when there bickering about their love or with Obi-Wan when Slave I attacks? I don't want to think that George Lucas caved in because of some fans and the media, but sometimes I think this is the logical conclusion, although I hate to admit it. Poor Jar Jar. I hope he gets a larger role in Episode III. Please George. :(
  25. hawk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2000
    star 5
    Face it Jedi_Learner, it wasn't planned mate. When JJ was first released, the buzz was he was this spanking new CGI character that would be utterly convincing and change cinema. I can remember the exact day I saw the t.v. special as I was bed ridden from a painful medical condition. But this wasn't the only special. It was just the norm in magazines, like Vanity Fair, around then.

    When TPM first reached us, in Australia, there was negative reviews and they magnified a week later. People hated Binks. I personally never "hated" Binks or Lloyd. They simply are not the reason why TPM failed IMHO. But who cares what I think eh?

    Years later AOTC was released and what we got was hardly any JJ and an obvious in joke when Padme cuts JJ off in mid sentence to almost say "Ok, I got the point guys" from Lucas. JJ was cut down because people hated him. And he would have fit in AOTC as much as Lucas let him. He could have fumbled around Naboo or with OW. He was never important in TPM anyway. Was he important when he landed on his nuts in a big battle scene or when he got in a fight with Sebulba? JJ was as important in TPM as he could have been in AOTC.
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