ST Why Snoke IS Darth Plagueis

I feel like he could be Plagueis especially after reading what the director of episode 9 had to say.

 

Because it's just something that characters say, especially in the prequels. Wise/wisdom seems to be a common word in the Force user vocabulary when praising each other.

• "You've been a good apprentice, Obi-Wan, and you're a much wiser man than I am. I foresee you will become a great Jedi Knight" - Qui-Gon, regarding Obi-Wan (The Phantom Menace)
• "Don’t get me wrong. Obi-Wan is a great mentor. As wise as Master Yoda and as powerful as Master Windu. I am truly thankful to be his apprentice." - Anakin Skywalker, regarding Obi-Wan/Yoda (Attack of the Clones)
• "Someone wise (should force people to comply with government decisions)" - Anakin to Padme, foreshadowing Palpatine as Emperor (Attack of the Clones)
• "Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so powerful and so wise he could use the Force to influence the midi-chlorians to create life." - Palpatine, regarding Plagueis (Revenge of the Sith)
• "You are strong and wise, Anakin, and I am very proud of you. I have trained you since you were a small boy. I have taught you everything I know. And you have become a far greater Jedi than I could ever hope to be." - Obi-Wan, regarding Anakin (Revenge of the Sith)
• "You have great wisdom, Anakin. Know the power of the dark side. Power to save Padme." - Palpatine, to Anakin (Revenge of the Sith)
• "Sister! So…you have a twin sister. Your feelings have now betrayed her, too. Obi-Wan was wise to hide her from me." - Vader, regarding Obi-Wan (Return of the Jedi)
• "The Supreme Leader is wise" - Kylo Ren, regarding Snoke (The Force Awakens)

Obi-Wan is described as wise more often than any other character. I'm not sure about the occurrence of the word in either Rebels or The Clone Wars, and the scripts for episodes aren't handy to search, but I'd wager it is used there too.

 

In order for the ST to work, Snoke has to be the power that was present and pulling the strings behind the scenes in the previous 6 films. If he is a brand new villain, then that is very poor storytelling. Snoke is very likely to be Plagueis. He's dropped the Sith title as he's moved on from the Sith. The Sith were too weak. The ST, in order to work as a continuation of the saga, has to have a villain that's even more powerful than Sidious, who was there from the beginning, perhaps 100s or 1000s of years ago. A villain that is effectively immortal. Now there's a challenge for the Jedi!

 

Excellent! Both as evidence and because it brings back memories.

 

Why is it poor storytelling? Just because it's not what you want,

We've already had Khan and Blofeld reveals. Do we need another? And whip I was skeptical of Blofeld pulling all the strings in the first three DC outings, it worked. To make Snoke Palaptine-Blofeld Plagueis lacks imagination and would be poor storytelling.

 

LOLWUT? What you are saying makes zero sense

 

Snoke being anyone other than someone new who was uninvolved in the events of the prequels/originals undercuts the value of the emperor. As cool as it would be to see a reveal that he's Darth Plagueis I don't think it's going to happen. Aftermath hints that the remanenants of the empire may have gone looking beyond the galaxy into the unknown regions to discover the secrets of the dark side and it also mentions an unnamed admiral (referred to as only "the operater") who is pulling the strings behind the scenes. While these things may not amount to anything they're probably the only clues we have to go on at this stage.

 

What did he say?

 

Yes. What?

 

Forgive me if this has been asked and answered before (damn forum has no search button!). But why would Darth Plagueis change his name to Snoke, if he were Darth Plagueis?

You would think keeping his name would be more advantageous when you're trying to recruit former Empire remnants.

"Heed to Darth Plagueis!" just sounds a lot more terrifying/convincing than "Heed to Snoke!"

Serious question.

 

Yeah. Where is that confound Search button.don't believe Snoke is Plagueis. But, as canon has been redefined, Plageuis could use his birth name, as did Sidious and Tyrannus. And that birth name could be Louis Snoke. Thus, Surpeme Leader Snoke is the public persona of Darth Plageuis in this hypothetical scenario.

And since MA, KK, JJ, RJ, and CT are in a GL-esque way are making this up as they go along, and if JJ were telling the truth at the time he said Snoke wasn't a Sith, Snoke could be rewritten as DP in VIII. Funny if this forum would be the influence of this change.

I'm still hoping he's a Rakatan like character.

 

I'm not decided one way or the other on this issue. Canon had been redefined but the name Darth Plagueis is still canon in TPM. Hehehe.... Louis Snoke. How about Snoke Ween? Or Snoke Own? (get it? get it?)

There's no question he could use his old name, but the question is why would he? That's like IBM changing its name back to "Computing-Tabulating-Recording Co." You lose all the marketing advantage.

 

I see no reason for Plagueis to cease to be a Sith. If he is the only Sith left, then he can reshape the order into whatever he wants. If he doesn't like the Rule of Two, he can do away with it. If he thinks the teachings are flawed, he can fix them. There's no reason to change his name. Also it is established that the Imperials are looking to the Dark Side for guidance. If a guy named DARTH Plagueis showed up, that would be a blessing to them. There's no reason to go by Snoke and disguise his Sith name from people that would eagerly follow a Sith.

And the saga is about the Skywalker legacy - Anakin and his descendants. Kylo Ren may not be the top bad guy, but he is the most important one, just as Luke's confrontation with Vader was stressed way more than anything about the Emperor in the OT. Snoke is just the guy that turned Kylo and runs things, but the story doesn't require that he have any kind of history with Palpatine, let alone being his master.

He could be a secret apprentice of Palpatine's, a guy that is given a Sith holocron, a Dark Side warlord that the First Order finds and pledges themselves to for protection, he could be a former Inquisitor, he could be a former pupil of Vader (he seems to hold Vader in higher regard while saying nothing about Vader's master), etc.

Nothing says he is superior to Palpatine, otherwise he likely would have been running the Galaxy earlier. He is Palpatine's successor that is trying to learn from Palpatine's mistakes and make a better version of Vader. That doesn't require he be Plagueis

 

What don't you get? Sidious was a puppet of Snoke. Snoke is uber-powerful and is probably an ancient evil that has dogged the galaxy for eons. This is my speculation, but for Snoke to be less powerful than Sidious is not good storytelling as the saga is supposed to be working towards a climax in Ep 9 (or Ep12!). You need a bigger threat than the Sith presented in Eps1-6.

 

Palpatine a puppet of Snoke. Nice parallel to Yoda bring a puppet of Frank Oz. no, wait! Palpatine was played by a live actor.

Seriously, it is possible that Snoke that Snoke is more powerful than Sidious, and calmly watched the Sith take over the Republic and create the Empire. He was aware of what happened, but couldn't do anything because conquering the Republic and Empire from the outside was impossible. Like Blofeld in FRWL he lets things play out before making his move. If he's ancient, he can be patient. And/or he's wounded and recovering wheel strengthening his base.

Ren is inferior to Vader. Bad storytelling? Then again, I believe GL said Luke had the same potential as Anakin, so presumably do Leia and Ren, perhaps even Rey. But as Vader lose half his midichlorians, Luke and Ren--perhaps Rey--become more powerful than Vader.

Vader had twice the midichlorians of Palaptine before he lost a good deal of himself and wound up with 80%. Interestingly, this didn't bother Palpatine who even boasted to Yoda that Vader would become more pwoerful than either he or Yoda. We see this a lot in movies, 007 in particular, the henchman villain stronger than his intellectual master. So how does the master control the henchman? Palpatine even tried to replace Vader before Luke.

So, will Ren become more powerful than Vader? And is he potentially more powerful than Snoke, who may want to destroy him and even tempted Rey to destroy Ren?

 

I know this is silly season and Snoke is probably a brand new character with an interesting history, but I starting watching Clone Wars with my oldest kid and we were talking about how Asajj Ventress looks a little bit like Snoke and then a few seconds later a battle droid addressed her as supreme leader.

Mind blown!

 

BEST. SNOKE THEORY. EVER.

Snoke is Ventress. Of course, she uses a hologram and that changes her voice. And they do look alike! And they considered having Snoke be a woman in the beginning.

Of course, not true, but still...

 

Thank you!

 

Not evidence Snoke is XXX. But evidence there may be no hope for American education, or at meast American journalism. There IS proof that Snoke can use the dark side--even a master of it.

http://www.cinemablend.com/m/new/Star-Wars-Theory-Makes-Strong-Case-Snoke-True-Identity-106197.html

 

Well by that logic then Snoke HAS to be Plagueis because what in the end is TFA?

It's a movie that doesn't lack imagination as such except that it's George Lucas' imagination they are using and very, very little of their own except how to reset and remix the elements.

We know how George was able to retell his own stories with such amazing flair, imagination and new elements throughout. This was not their goal.

Where does TFA take us? It's resets the OT to basically the same place. Luke is in an Obi-Wan role, Leia is with the Resistance, Han is a smuggler, the Jedi Order is gone, the Republic is gone, the "Empire" is back etc etc then on top of that we have the main protagonist and antagonist who are pulled from the Light and Darkside aspects of Anakin. Rey is in the Anakin/Luke role, Kylo Ren is in the Vader/apprentice role.

With all the character, story and pretty much every other element you can think from pulled from Lucas then adding one more in Sidious' Master Plagueis as Snoke seems to be a requirement.

Before TFA I thought Snoke as Plagueis was possible but not likely but now seeing TFA with it's story and characters I lean towards him not being Plagueis to be the surprise.

That he looks at IX as the conclusion of a story started over 40 years ago over 9 movies.

 

I can see it now, in episode 8:
Snoke: "it is I, VENTRESS!"
90% of the Audience: "who?"
10%: "ugh, I'm out."

 

That is good to know, because I feel at least that is how the numbered movies should be. That does not mean Snoke is Plagueis, but I do see how it would support the idea.

 

Oh look it's this post again. Yawn.

 

You need a hug? I've got plenty
The point, or course, is that Ventress is nowhere NEAR enough of a familiar name to give the reveal any impact at all. Sure, fans of the clone wars will love or hate it, but everyone else will be indifferent.
Might as well make Snoke the ice cream maker guy.

 

No, the point is that there will be no big reveal on screen as to Snoke's history and every few pages in this thread that has to be repeated.