Why Spider-Man is Better Than Star Wars: Take it for What it is

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by ST-TPM-ASF-TNE, Jun 1, 2002.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Jawa70 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 1
    Superman II is better than the 1st one!

    "Son of Jorel, kneel before ZOD!"

    class.
  2. Darth_Chasm Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    The majority of the american public found Spider-Man more appealing than AOTC. That's all. I saw both movies 3 times, AOTC once in the theater only though. :)
  3. darthlebowski72 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 2001
    star 5
    The reason I think everyone is trying to compare Spiderman to AOTC is because Spiderman is seen my many as a movie that can take away some of Star Wars' thunder (i.e. box office dominance).

    Star Wars is king. I have heard many times over how it is considered THE[/] movie franchise and that is a truth that no one can argue with.

    There are certain unscruplous characters out there who want to take the king down a notch. THAT is why the LA Times or the Washington Post denounce it. It's almost like Star Wars is a dominant sports team that has gotten so good that people want to see them fail just so there will be a new king. I liken Star Wars to when the Jordan-era Chicago Bulls. They were king for a wbole decade and everyone wanted to see them fail...except the true fans.

    When you're king you get a great big red target painted on your chest. That is Star Wars. If it weren't king, it wouldn't be getting a story like this LA Times crapola.
  4. Fat_Fett Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 24, 2001
    star 4
    "I saw both movies 3 times, AOTC once in the theater only though. :)"

    Exactly WHY are you smiling about that?
  5. Ociredor Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2002
    star 1
    Well, if we must talk about ATOC and Spidey, then I might as well give my thoughts.

    I liked BOTH Episode 2 and Spider-Man. I actually think that Spidey is the best comic book moive since the original Superman. IMO, it was better than X-Men and even Batman.

    However, it didn't take any of my enjoyment away from watching ATOC, which I really enjoyed and feel it is the best SW movie since Empire.

    If I were to compare the two movies, I probably could find points in each movie that would be better than the other. But I will not. Except for being in the sci-fi genre, these films don't have much in common at all. They both work in their own ways and are not meant to be compared.

    Interesting note, though, shortly after Spidey came out, there were some ppl on the internet complaining about the movie. There agruments against Spdiey were very similar to the arguements made against ATOC(Bad dialogue, fast editing, a romance that didn't work, etc.). So I guess both movies can have many opinions regarding the quality.
  6. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    There is an obvious media bias against Star Wars. I mean, The Phantom Menace is in the top 5 best selling movies of all time in the theaters, on VHS, and on DVD, yet critics still insist that it was a box office disappointment! I mean, people saw the movie. In fact, they saw it a hell of alot--gobs of repeat business--yet critics simply can't admit to themselves or their readers that a large majority of the movie going public liked The Phantom Menace.

    Now we have Attack Of The Clones, and despite it's relatively low key marketing campaign and the fact that it's showing in 1000 fewer theaters than the overhyped Spiderman, Clones is still keeping pace with ol' Spidey. I mean, given Clones' marketing and screenings disadvantage, doesn't that say a lot about the popularity of the Star Wars franchise given that Spiderman is barely beating it at the box office?

    Ironically, given that every pseudo-intellectual film critic tries to compare every movie to the "disappointing" Star Wars prequel films, it just proves that Star Wars remains very popular. We fans would only need to worry if, say, Spiderman was being compared to The Matrix, or Men In Black II was compared to Spiderman. The fact is, Star Wars is the standard when it comes to hugely successful and popular films and film franchises. Even as they try and tear it down, critics are only proving time and again just how good Star Wars really is.
  7. ElfStar Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2001
    star 4
    - the the romance in AOTC completly worked for me and there's no mystery behind Padme's attraction towards Anakin. Anyone who doesn't believe that a young woman could be attacted to a guy completly wrong for her has never met a young woman

    Oh please, spare me that tired old condescending crap. :p Besides, I think the young women I know would be insulted by your insinuations.

    No one questions that women will fall for the wrong guy. But they usually fall for him because he's a smooth talker. Not because he says things like "You're just like I remember you in my dreams" or "sand is rough, not like you." :p

    I liked most of AotC, but this "love" story was just plain awful, IMHO.

  8. Jawa70 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 1
    i dunno, i remember writing and thinking some pretty embarassing lines back when i was a teen trying to impress my girl, i think it's pretty believable in a hokey way some of the lines Anakin used. I've been there.hell! i bet we all have.
  9. DarthRaptor Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2002
    star 1
    I liked Spider-Man. But, nothing beats AOTC. I mean, I saw Spider-Man three times in the theater before AOTC came out. Since then, I've had no desire to see Spider-Man again. On the other hand, I've seen AOTC five times, and I can't wait to see it again!

    The point is this: They liked Spider-Man better than Star Wars. So what? That's their opinion. And, opinions are like buttholes. Everyone has one. Most of them stink...

    DR
  10. DarthGunray Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2001
    star 3
    I think George Lucas sums everything up best in his interview in the latest issue of Star Wars Insider.

    "...I stay away from critics. I just don't find them valid in any way. If criticism were the kind of analysis it was meant to be in the first place-as it is in other arts, where you have literate, sophisticated people, who are knowledgeable-then it would be worthwhile to listen to it. But I haven't discovered anybody who knows anything about film. To have them rant and rave about their personal feelings is a waste of my time." -George Lucas

    I think he hits the nail right on the head with this statement. As for the love story of AOTC...I felt it to be quite believeable. Then again, I read the novel, which expains exactly how Padme was feeling each time she saw Anakin. But even with the film you could get a sense of that. It seemed awkward only because the characters Hayden and Natalie protrayed were awkward, at least with expressing love to other people. Anakin's weakness was expressing his feelings too much, while Padme kept her's hidden.

    Oops, I'm ranting. I'll stop and leave the thread for little while.

    *Waits for thread to double in size again.*
  11. PloKloon1138 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 5, 2001
    star 4
    I stay away from critics. I just don't find them valid in any way. If criticism were the kind of analysis it was meant to be in the first place-as it is in other arts, where you have literate, sophisticated people, who are knowledgeable-then it would be worthwhile to listen to it. But I haven't discovered anybody who knows anything about film. To have them rant and rave about their personal feelings is a waste of my time.

    Best quote ever. :D
  12. foxbatkllr Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2001
    star 6
    "sand is rough, not like you."

    GEEZ!!! If you're going to bash the dialogue at least get it right! You don't even know what you're bashing anymore. The way you quoted it, it sucks ass. It's a terrible line that way. But the actual line is much much better and sounds good.
    I believe it goes a little something like this:
    "I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough...and it gets everywhere. Not like here, here everything's soft, and smooth..."
  13. Binary_Sunset Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 5
    The love story in Spider-Man is at least believable. Remember, Mary Jane is a normal teenage girl (whereas Padme is a 24-year-old senator and former queen); Peter Parker only recently acquired a superpower that doesn't have any intrinsic affect on his emotions (whereas Anakin has been immersed in a celibate order for the last ten years).

    I've never cringed so bad during a SW movie in my life. The Nat/Hayden love story was so bad it made me long for the good ol' days of Jar Jar. And Ewoks? This has made them look positively cool.
  14. foxbatkllr Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2001
    star 6
    I've never cringed so bad during a SW movie in my life. The Nat/Hayden love story was so bad it made me long for the good ol' days of Jar Jar. And Ewoks? This has made them look positively cool.

    I cringe everytime I hear "Somebody's gotta save us kids. Into the garbage chute fly boy!" or "hold me!" or what about "you truly belong with us here amongst the clouds."
    I never once cringed during AOTC.
  15. abmccray Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 2
    Wait a minute - you guys are saying that AOTC will be revered in years to come and Spider-Man won't?

    And what will hold up AOTC when the effects and nostalgia fade? The wonderful characterization? The believable characters? The strongly developed villain? The great choreography in the action sequences?

    I think that Spider-Man will hold up strongly in years to come when compared to Star Wars. Superman and Batman ae still genereally considered as classics because the vision, story, direction, etc. has held up over the years. AOTC's weak spot among the majority was the romance/character development - the strong point was the action. Spider-Man's strong points when polled were characterization and development, the weak point was that people wanted more action.

    Stories are timeless - effects are not. The OT has lasted because they had characters you cared about, that pulled you in. You can forgive a stupid looking bluescreen when you can relate with what the character is doing. The NT's weak spot among every critic/fan is the writing, character development (just read your heralded "positive" reviews, even the apologetic ones that try to excuse the writing! Notice a trend?), and acting (which is arguable). When future generations think that AOTC looks "stupid" what will they have left to care about?
  16. 2HereKnowsWhen Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2002
    star 1
    You know, I enjoyed myself when I saw SM, but AOTC was one of the best times that I've had at a movie in a long time. And I went into it expecting to be let down like I was in '99. I was blown away. Being an old school fan I didn't think that it would ever get that good again, but I'm glad that it has. I've read countless scathing reviews of the movie and I just don't get it. The tone of most of the criticisms suggest that the reviewers never intended to give it a fair chance in the fist place. That damn Salon review makes me wish the Unibomber was still free. Regardless of what goes down at the box-office this year, once we have all six movies of the saga complete it will be the only game in town. Period. For all of you who claim that SM is so much better than AOTC, once that franchise devolves to the level of say, Children of The Corn VI, let me know which one you'd rather have then.

    As far as the 2 films romances go, I think that they're about even. I wish that both could have been developed more, but they each did what they had to do. People say that Amidala falling for Anakin is hard to take, but was MJ's "I love you, Peter Parker!" really any better? Hell, wasn't she supposed to be all over Harry one minute and then all of a sudden she starts sneaking around behind his back with Parker? WTF?
    Anakin's confession to Padme was disturbing, but at least his mother is dead. Padme may not fully agree with what he did, but remember, she knew Shmi, too. Amidala can't be too pleased that the good, kind woman that she had met 10 yrs. earlier had been kidnapped and tortured to death. She might not have been all that dissaproving to tell the truth. Hopefully, both SM and AOTC's romances will get more fleshing out in their respective DVDs. Even if you give the edge in romance to SM(which I don't) AOTC smokes it in every other catagory that I can think of, from action on down the line. Saying that SM is just hands down better than AOTC is IMHO a load of Shite. Steamy shite.
  17. foxbatkllr Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2001
    star 6
    abmcc, again here you go presenting your opinion as fact. I thought the characters were believable, the story was great, and the dialogue was great. Oops, I guess I just cancelled out your opinion.
  18. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    The problem is, people are judging the Attack Of The Clones love story as if it were your standard romantic narrative. It isn't. It is an awkward infatuation between two people who have never had a serious relationship and who have a hard time dealing with and expressing their feelings. It's not supposed to be a lovey-dubby romance but an unhealthy and ultimately dangerous attraction between two emotionally immature kids who mistook their inner turmoil for love.
  19. abmccray Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 2
    ((abmcc, again here you go presenting your opinion as fact. I thought the characters were believable, the story was great, and the dialogue was great. Oops, I guess I just cancelled out your opinion. ))

    Did you read the 'based on popular opinion' part (since, of course, we're talking about popular opinion, here), or were you trying so busy to come up with a witty reply that you decided not to even read the post?
  20. foxbatkllr Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2001
    star 6
    abmccray, I'd like to know where you get these mysterious "polls" from. The fact is that whatever polls you are speaking of do no exist or are not reliable. You only try to pass them as fact because it is what you believe. You are a troll who does nothing but bash AOTC on an AOTC forum. I have never seen you make a positive comment before.
  21. TheVioletBurns Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2002
    star 4
    abmccray,

    Actually, I could care less about the action sequences in AOTC. They look cool and junk, but the whole reason I'm a Star Wars fan is for the story and the characters. So if Attack of the Clones was as lacking in story and characterization as you make it out to be, I shouldn't have loved it as much as I did.

    Opinion, people.
    It makes the world go 'round.

    TVB.
  22. abmccray Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 2
    Here is an easy homework assignment:

    Look through the Rotten Tomatoes archives and then follow the links to the articles which talk about the reader surveys.

    The surveys include how many people thought the movies were "good" or "great" and then the people mark of what they thought was the strongest and weakest points of the movie. I've gotten those tons of times at the movies - I'm sure many of you have as well.

    Spider-Man got like 1 or 2 percent more "greats" than AOTC, but look at the weak points as compared to AOTC. (In a side point, Enough was 90% liked, which proves that audiences don't have very discerning tastes)

    After you do that, read every postive review of AOTC on Rotten Tomatoes, and look how many say that the weak point of the movie is the dialogue/writing/character development. Then read the reviews of Spider-Man and tell me what they say the weak point is.

    Then if those facts don't back me up, you have the right to continue with your lame accusations.

    YOUR opinion and MY opinion do not matter in a discussion about the PUBLIC. The best way to determine that is RANDOM polling.

    And by the way, I have said positive about AOTC. I thought the movie was mediocre, and i will defend my views against gushers who try to make excuses for why people feel this way. My full review, with positives is easily accesssed here, if you need more "proof":

    http://www.arrogancy.net/news/1021580444,75140,.shtml
  23. ST-TPM-ASF-TNE Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2001
    star 6
    But I though love was what made the world go 'round [face_love]




    ST
  24. foxbatkllr Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2001
    star 6
    The best way to determine that is RANDOM polling.
    Thank you! You just made my point! These internet sites with polls and user reviews are completely unreliable and totally dismissable! Critics...what do they know? Nothing! ESB received scathing reviews but I bet it's your favorite SW movie...
  25. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    My full review, with positives is easily accesssed here, if you need more "proof":

    http://www.arrogancy.net/news/1021580444,75140,.shtml


    Arrogancy.net. Now why does that not surprise me?
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.