Why Spider-Man is Better Than Star Wars: Take it for What it is

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by ST-TPM-ASF-TNE, Jun 1, 2002.

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  1. abmccray Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 2
    Wait, polls from random audiences are suspect? So what is more reliable? The thoughts of people on a Star Wars fan site? Random polls would be the most reliable thing - unless of course, you believe in the "evil X-Files type conspiracy against Star Wars", which, by the way was still polled at over 90% positive.
  2. foxbatkllr Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2001
    star 6
    abmccray, they are not random because as you put it they are reader surveys.
    1. Not everyone has the internet.
    2. Not everyone who has the internet visits Rottentomatoes.com.
    3. Everyone who fills out a "reader survey" has a vested interest in the actual survey. They are either going on there to completely boost a movie they liked or to put down a movie they hated. They are going there because they have strong feelings on a movie. Any survey which is totally voluntary is completely inaccurate.
  3. abmccray Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 2
    Excuse me, I meant to write "viewer" survey. The context shows what i meant - I mistakenly used the wrong word there. My mistake for not proofreading.

    You know, the ones you get from time to time when you go to the movies - the people hand you a little card, and you're supposed to fill it out after the movie is over?

    I agree about Internet polls- they're extrememly skewed, especially since the Internet demographic does not represent the average population. Just look at the amount of Star Wars and Star Trek fans online as compared to other fanbases (sci-fi/fantasy has a huge online following).
  4. Ewan-Kenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 21, 2000
    star 6
    This review is so black and white that it shouldn't be taken seriously.

    Personally Spiderman didn't excite me very much. I thought the action sequances were pretty much, (punch punch kick kick kick kick) as in...BORING.
    But apart from that and it being way over the top in silliness than it's even been on comic and cartoons, I like it. I'm not going to compare it to star wars at all. They can both exist, fine with me.

    Critics should be ignored, it's their lot in life.
  5. TheVioletBurns Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2002
    star 4
    Let's see if I can make myself more clear this time. I don't care what the general public thinks, or what rottontomatoes.com polls bring up.

    The prequels can be criticized for lack of depth or "heart" forever for all I care, but after Episode III comes out, I guarantee you I'm not going to be the only one who is pulled back because of how much deeper and wider and different the whole Star Wars story is now made - and perhaps these new films will make more sense to those who don't like them now. Perhaps they will finally be appreciated. If not, then fine. I'll still enjoy them.

    But hey, if/when a Spider-Man 5 or 6 comes out and people are still creating a hullabuloo, and the film delivers something that throws the light completely different on all the other Spider-Man movies and makes them that much better, then you can beat me with a stick!

    TVB.
  6. Drew_Workin_It Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 1
  7. sdj Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2002
    star 4
    I'm not interested in what Joe six pack thinks of Star Wars especially when it comes to the prequels. I mean the prequels are somewhat to enhance and fill out the main story which was told in the originals. I know not everyone is going to get or care about them. It would be like asking me about sports. I don't care enough to watch the regular season or give a crap about statistics but I sometimes watch the superbowl/world series or whatever. Now would I be the right person to survey about sports? Sure you say movies are supposed to entertain everyone but don't you think that maybe the prequels are more meant for the fans.
  8. foxbatkllr Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2001
    star 6
    Viewer surveys are a different issue. An independent company which randomly samples people on their feelings about a movie is accurate.

    Now, as for the acting/dialogue/characters being weak in AOTC, I still say it was great. And I don't just love anything Star Wars, I thought TPM was crap. I also think that most of the criticisms of AOTC easily apply to ANH as well and that movie is considered a "classic." Part of the problem why I believe Spider-Man won't be a classic is that it is too well grounded in our current trends. They have some trendy bands making music for it (we all know what happens to trendy music) and just the whole atmosphere in the movie is very 2002. It just seems to me to be lacking in that timeless quality which AOTC has plenty of. At least most of the previous superhero films at least took place in imaginary cities. In 20 years, few young people will be able to relate to what it was like to live in NYC in 2002. In 20 years, young people will still be able to lose themselves in that GFFA while watching AOTC.
  9. Knightstalker- Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2001
    star 3
    Yeah right, Spider-man is better than AOTC. [face_plain]
    I just cannot understand how Spider-man has done so well. Who the hell could sit through that more than once?! Halfway through it I was squirming in my seat.
  10. sdj Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2002
    star 4
  11. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    I have no doubt that in 20 years the Star Wars saga will be remembered for the classic it is in much the same way that the original three films are now considered classics despite being critically hammered when first released while Spiderman will be remembered as nothing more than your average forgettable Hollywood blockbuster popculture fluff. In fact, Spiderman has more in commone with Godzilla, Independence Day, and Armageddon than it does with Attack Of The Clones.
  12. abmccray Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 2
    Mary J. Blige? Huh? What does she have to do with anything?
  13. abmccray Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 2
    The original Star Wars movies were recieved better in general by the media and the public than these. I'm not sure what you're talking about there. (This is probably going to start an argument between the people who were alive at that time, heh.)

    Some of the critics who liked the OT also dislike the NT for various reasons. Will this trend resonate through the public consciousness? Will the new ones become classics?

    None of us can say for sure, really, but given the reasons stated in previous replies, I think that Spider-Man and The Matrix will be remembered more fondly in future years than AOTC or TPM. Someone needs to invent a time machine so we can end this debate.
  14. DarthHomer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2000
    star 5
    The Matrix is VEEEEERRRRY overrated. I enjoyed it, but it does not deserve to be mentioned in the same class as Star Wars. People talk about the prequels lacking heart and soul - where was the heart and soul in The Matrix?
    AOTC is ten times the film The Matrix is. I haven't seen Spidey yet, but I doubt it will live up to my expectations.
  15. Zanath Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 13, 2002
    star 1
    Well this is an interesting thread.

    Anyways, I saw Spiderman...It was merely ok. I don't know if it was just me, but I felt the bad guy came out of no where. One thing I found funny was when the Green Goblin was making him choose between his girl and the little children! That's a classic bady thing to do. The best parts were when he was discovering his powers. IMO, AOTC is a much better movie, for many reasons.
  16. TheVioletBurns Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2002
    star 4
    I would bang my head against this thread a third time, but I've already lost too many precious brain cells.

    TVB.
  17. archangel24601 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 20, 2001
    ok,

    after seeing the 2nd installment of star wars, i am a born again fan. i think it was the 3 years of waiting that really tested my love for the series but it is renewed.
    first off, i HAVE seen both spiderman and star wars 2. i loved them both though i liked star wars better. i don't put much faith in CRITICS of today. i mean, these are the ones that brought TITANIC and the ENGLISHMAN to an almost God-like status. first off, i would bet dollars to pesos that 90 percent of these people were either sperm and egg when the first trilogy first came out or they were too young to form an opinion. they are running up against an american symbol. they are running against a story that if it had been written at the time of the ODESSEY, we would be studying that in school instead. SO TRUE THAT SPIDERMAN AND XMEN HAVE RICH STORIES, but i think none compare to the story that is told in star wars.
    yes, i loved the matrix. no, it did not deserve to win the oscar for special effects b/c all that it was just funky camera angles. in PM, there was a huge battle scene that didn't take place!!!
    the force will live on the screen and the spiderman will live on in the written and illustrated pages. there is room for both.
  18. Darth_Chasm Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    Why not smile? I'm so f******* cool.
  19. 2HereKnowsWhen Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2002
    star 1
    Yeah, no doubt. At least the Star Wars villains have good motivation to do the things that they do. In SM the GG didn't have much of a reason to act like he did. I mean, most movie villains want money and power, but he already had both! It seemed like he turned to crime just to have something to do. Like Wednesday night bingo!

    As if to say "Well, I've got this spiffy green suit, now what?!"--"Oh, I know!" "Spider-Man!" "Yeah, I'll go kick HIS ass![insert maniacle cackle here]
  20. jedi-girl Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2000
    star 4
    abmccray, what are you talking about?! the OT was just as panned as the AoTC is now! just a couple of weeks ago TF.n posted a review by the NY Times of ESB, about how terrible the movie was! LOL! These reviews aren't worth the paper they're written on.

    PadmeBra, from page 1, writes
    Everything in Spider-Man was in bright primary colors with no texture. And the movement was pure 1997 style CGI. Didn't look natural at all.
    I agree!

    I enjoyed Spider Man. But it isn't the movie I am going back to see every weekend :) Star Wars is epic and mythological. simply no comparison!
  21. Boba_Phat Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 29, 2000
    star 4
    I saw Spiderman and I thought it was good, but it is nowhere near Episode II in terms of quality. Spiderman is just your typical summer action movie. There's really not much else to it. I still think Batman is the best comic-book adaptation ever.

    P.S. Spiderman stole its ending from Batman Forever. :p
  22. abmccray Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 2
    ((At least the Star Wars villains have good motivation to do the things that they do.))

    And what was Dooku's motivation again? Why did he leave the order? Why did he join with Palpatine? Hmmmmmmmm?

    The same goes for Maul. Who was he, what was he, where did he come from...you get the idea.

    Tell me that, and your statement gets credence. And as we all know, novels don't count.

    The Green Goblin's/Osborne's "father/power" complex may have been typical (although doesn't Palpatine just want power for no reason as well?), but at least he HAD a reason!

    Please, read the thread before you comment - this was already explained in detail.

    jedi-girl: What does a critic panning of ESB have to do with anything I said? That's not even the context I mentioned critics in, and critics weren't even the focus of my statement.

    People, I love arguing, and some of you have provided some well thought out arguments - but some of you need to READ and COMPREHEND the argument before you get involved. I'm starting to waste too much time repeating the same things for new people :)

  23. jedi-girl Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2000
    star 4
    abmccray, you wrote above The original Star Wars movies were recieved better in general by the media and the public than these. I'm not sure what you're talking about there ... I was disputing your opinion the OT was well-received through proof of previous reviews of the movies when they were first released.

    and please don't make personal attacks. that is considered trollish behavior and will get you banned.

  24. abmccray Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 2
    The media and critics are not one in the same. And even if you do view them as the same, I made the distinction between the groups in the complete post.

    I didn't make any personal attacks either. Asking that you read and comprehend what I'm saying before you reply to save me effort is not a personal attack. Even if I'm "wrongfully" banned, I'm not the type to care much anyway. I just find it more interesting to argue my views when I'm in the minority of a situation, which is why I post here. I'll just waste time somewhere else :)
  25. Binary_Sunset Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 5
    Foxbatkllr wrote: 'I cringe everytime I hear "Somebody's gotta save us kids. Into the garbage chute fly boy!"'

    I'd cringe too if that was how it goes, but the line goes like this: "Somebody has to save our skins! Into the garbage chute, flyboy!"
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