Why Spider-Man is Better Than Star Wars: Take it for What it is

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by ST-TPM-ASF-TNE, Jun 1, 2002.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. DarthGunray Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2001
    star 3
    You know, the ones you get from time to time when you go to the movies - the people hand you a little card, and you're supposed to fill it out after the movie is over? -abmccray

    Funny, I've never EVER have gotten one of these before. Maybe the theaters I go to don't have them? I dunno, but I've never actually heard of these surveys either.

    As for AOTC, it will be remembered in 20 years. The whole Star Wars saga will be, even TPM. Spider-Man will be like Batman, I love Batman, but it's a highly forgetable film. Spider-Man will probably be the same.
  2. Razorback Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2001
    star 5
    actually in twenty years i'm hoping all the adrenaline overloading your brains will stop flowing and maybe by then you will all realize how inferior AotC is when it is compared to the OT.

    Hehehe... you will eat those words in 20 years. Of course in 2 minutes I won't care what you said much less in 20 years so... I guess right now you can say any silly thing and not have to worry about backing it up.

    RB
  3. ST-TPM-ASF-TNE Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2001
    star 6
  4. abmccray Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 2
    ((First of all, he is a highly esteemed former Jedi whose abilities are certainly on par with the greatest Jedi council members (Mace Windu and Yoda). We can gather this from Mace's defense of him to Padme at the beginning of the film, the statue of his head in the Jedi library which obviously indicates that he is an honored Jedi, his addressing Mace Windu as "old friend" which makes him sound on equal and familiar terms with Mace Windu rather than a lesser Jedi, not to mention his fight with Yoda.))

    Yes, we can get that from the movie.

    ((He trained Qui-Gon Jinn and was a political idealist.))

    Nowhere in the movie does it say he's a political idealist. The movie shows that he's serving Sidious - playing both sides agaisnt the other. From that, you can assume that he cares nothing about politics, except for serving his master. Serving his master is an even weaker motivation than "being crazy."

    ((He discusses the Senate's corruption with Obi-wan.))

    He's obviously playing with emotions. That's part of his plan, not his motivation.

    ((He seems genuinely saddened by the death of Qui-Gon Jinn.))
    Perhaps. That could be a motivation.

    ((Finally, he is a master swordsman with a zeal for elegance and appears to appreciate honor and proper form as we can see in his lightsaber duels and his praise of the valor of the Jedi during the finale.))

    That's a skill, not a motivation.

    Thus, the only thing we can determine from the movie as to "why was Dooku bad?" is that he may have been mad about Qui Gon's death and he served Sidious. You're inferring things that do not exist in the movie, that come directly from the context of the novel and original script. You can't use novels in a movie argument - do you have any idea of the amount of characterization and development in the Spider-man novel/script that would not fit in the movie? Only stick with what is on screen.

    And remember the context of the original argument. It claimed that Norman Osborne was a poorly developed villain COMPARED to Star Wars villains, which is a ridiculous notion. "Darth Maul hated the Jedi, so he killed one." If that was his only reason, then I can just say GG hated Spider-Man to put them on equal planes. I don't even have to get into their personal relationships.
  5. TheDarkSkull Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 12, 2002
    star 3
    I saw both Spiderman and AOTC. Spiderman was a pretty good movie, but not as great as hype has made. Critics have always hated Star Wars, they can't understand it. While Spiderman they understand, and hense is why they love it so much. But in my opinion I found that everything in Spider-Man was just one big collection of super-hero movies.
  6. G-FETT Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2001
    star 7
    Well, everybody moans about the British press, but thank god we haven't had anything like the negative press for Star Wars, that the US had had.
  7. snap-hiss Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2001
    star 5
    I like PB's take on the situation:

    Take away the FX in both films, I don't care. AOTC is a compelling story. Spiderman is just another comic book story. The exact same plot, just different powers and a different costume.


    !snap
  8. Dagobah_Dude Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2001
    star 3
    Spiderman is just another comic book story. The exact same plot, just different powers and a different costume

    I liked SPIDERMAN(especially the first hour), but one of the things that grated on my nerves was the way it ripped scenes from the BATMAN series. All of the balloons at the festival where just like those used at the end of the first BATMAN, and worse, the stuff at the end with the Goblin asking Spiderman to choose between his girlfriend and the kids was stolen from BATMAN FOREVER("Which will it be, Bruce's love, or the Dark Knight's junior partner?"). And MJ recognizing that Peter is Spidey from a kiss is also stolen from BATMAN FOREVER.
    I couldn't believe the deja vu I was experiencing while watching Spidey on opening night during those moments.
  9. Padme Bra Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 1999
    star 6
    Virtually every comic book movie since 1989 ripped off Batman. Well, the super-hero type comics anyway. Batman was a truely innovative comic book film. The action may seem a little dated now but the look and the directing style set the tone for future comic book films, including Spider-Man. There just wasn't anything new in Spider-Man. I don't even read the book and I could tell what was around every corner. There just wasn't anything to it.

  10. Lizardmonkey Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 2
    Wasn't there a final episode of the Animated Spider-man of the nineties with an episode called "I Really, Really, Really Hate Clones!"
  11. Twink_Kee Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2001
    star 5
    IMO, the first Batman is still the best superhero movie ever made. The first couple of Superman movies, despite their campiness, come a close second.
  12. JBFett Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2002
    star 4
    I agree twink,

    Batman is and will always be the best superhero movie of all time. It was very adult, very well made. Tim Burton's vision was dead on the money. He did a wonderful job of bringing batman to the screen. I love spiderman, he's prob my fav superhero ever, but I was greatly disappointed. Then again I was set up for it once I saw the GG costume and the trailers. The first half was good...but the second half was a mess.

    I didnt buy into it anymore after they abandoned the origin act and went RIGHT into this supervillain terrorizing the city act. I could have coreographed better fights, and the fights also neglected to take advantage of great elements between spiderman and GG, such as chasing through NY. but whatever, I dont understand how anyone could compare THAT to AOTC. its not even in the same caliber.
  13. Twink_Kee Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2001
    star 5
    IMO, Batman is the ESB/AOTC of superhero movies. It has a dark-edged feel to it, yet there is still a lighthearted presence there.
  14. ST-TPM-ASF-TNE Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2001
    star 6
    Yes. Hopefully if Batman 5 is made, it will bring back that edge that Batman originally had, that was not exibited in Batman Forever and Batman & Robin




    ST
  15. Moriarte Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 2001
    star 5
    "Spider-Man" drops sly pop references to other movies, a postmodern practice that "Star Wars" helped invent. Peter Parker's bid to raise cash by going mano a mano with a goonish pro wrestler in a cage recalls a similar Mel Gibson showdown in "Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome" (198#)"

    Now this is just so incredibly STUPID!!! If she knew her Spider-Man lore, like I do, she would know that Peter Parker wrestling for money is, in fact, part of comic book history. He did wrestle for money, let a crook run past, and that man killed his uncle. It is NO WAY in HELL a nod to Mad Max...she's an idiot in more ways than one.

    Ciou-See the Sig
  16. Jawa70 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 1
    Someone please make 'The dark knight Returns'
    PLEASE!
  17. SarLabooda Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    This nonsense about spiderman being superior to AOTC is just that: nonsense, and I think this woman deserves to be struck over the head with a lightsaber.

    To me, Spiderman was a big dissapointment. Being a huge Raimi fan(Evil Dead, Army of darkness, etc..) I expected more than what was done with spiderman. I saw the potential there for a much better film. Sure the CGI scenes were cool, flying from building to building, but lets face it, they dont hold a candle to AOTC.
  18. JBFett Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2002
    star 4
    After seeing it the 6th time yesterday.

    AOTC is far superior....I wish i could call some of you guys to talk, I get too lazy typing :)

    I took someone to see it last night. A girl who boycotted TPM and said she would boycott star wars forever. She thought it was stupid and most names you could think of. Anyhow, she saw spiderman and loved it for whatever reason, even though I broke down for her why its not that good. I convinced her that I would eventually take her to see AOTC but she had never seen any of them and she claimed she wouldnt get it. So yesterday she came over, we watched TPM and she was pretty impressed. She loved the mythology and said it was great/yet it was too much for her to absorb in one shot. Then right after we went and saw AOTC (unfortunately we missed the digital so i had to return to film - and BOY i can notice the difference)

    I had helped clear everything up for her going into AOTC about TPM, told her little things like Owen is Luke's uncle blah blah blah. Anyhow, she absolutely LOVED AOTC. She came out in AWE. She said it was 1000000 times better than TPM and was amazed. She couldnt stop talking about it on the way home.

    Thats my story how yesterday I created a SW fan.
  19. Twink_Kee Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2001
    star 5
    I don't know of anyone, whether it be personally or second-hand, that was made a Spider-Man fan after seeing the film. My brother liked the Spider-Man movie, but his experience ended with watching the film. He has never collected the comic books or watched the TV shows, nor has he started now.

    I do, however, personally know a handful of people who were made Star Wars fans after seeing AOTC. And I've heard of many more reports second-hand. Now, I've seen many people who are interested in watching the other Star Wars films. Heck, even video sales of TPM have risen dramatically AFTER the release of AOTC.

    (As a side-note, I was made a Batman fan after seeing the first Batman film. I went out and horded Batman comics :D)
  20. Dagobah_Dude Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2001
    star 3
    Yes. Hopefully if Batman 5 is made, it will bring back that edge that Batman originally had, that was not exibited in Batman Forever and Batman & Robin

    Supposedly, an adaptation of Frank Miller's BATMAN:YEAR ONE is in the works. If done correctly, it will reignite the BATMAN franchise and wash away the bitter taste left from FOREVER(which has one or two good scenes but is mostly a mess) and B&R(which is a complete dog).
  21. ST-TPM-ASF-TNE Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2001
    star 6
  22. 2HereKnowsWhen Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2002
    star 1
    On the issue of who's got the better villain-- Remember, Palpatine(The supreme villain of the saga) hasn't revealed his true, complete plan yet. We've still got one more movie to go. On the other hand, the GG is dead and gone. And the best that anyone of you can come up with is that "Hey, he 's crazy!" Like I said before, I liked SM, but I just can't see where it's supposed to be better than AOTC.

    And if you're going to knock the PT villains because of their motivations(or lack of), don't you have to condemn the OT villains as well. Other than the odd bounty hunter aren't the villains from both pretty much on the same team? Is the Goblin better than Tarkin? Palpatine? Vader?
  23. dahveed72 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 3
    Look, its a fact that Spider-man is a much better directed, acted, edited film. No question. Is it a better movie than AOTC? One word: Yoda.
  24. ST-TPM-ASF-TNE Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2001
    star 6
    No, it's not a fact. It's an opinion. And in my opinion, AOTC is better directed, acted, and edited :D





    ST
  25. Twink_Kee Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2001
    star 5
    Not it is not a fact, dahveed. When you go off trying to pass opinion as fact, that is when you've lost all credibility.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.