Why Spider-Man is Better Than Star Wars: Take it for What it is

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by ST-TPM-ASF-TNE, Jun 1, 2002.

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  1. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    Most flash in the pan successes generally have a "great effect" on pop culture. Does anybody else remember such pop culture "classics" like the Macarenna or Achey Breaky Heart? The Matrix is certainly in good company!
  2. abmccray Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 2
    The Matrix was responsible more than anything else for the public sensibility to HK movies and for many later movies including Crouching Tiger, to be brought out over here (without TM, the public would have more of an aversion to wire-fu). It also introduced a 'style' of direction, lighting and camerawork that has been used in commericals, magazines, cartoons, music videos, and video games. It solidifed "bullet time" into public consciousness, and everything that has used it since has been directly compared to The Matrix. One just has to count all the imitations, games, and movies that The Matrix has spawned to see this. The Matrix, like it or not, has become this generation's Star Wars in its influence on the way entertainment is done. While it was not the first to do many things, it brought them to the mainstream eye, and thus gets the credit.

    Now compare that to TPM's influence on the entertainment world.

    I don't even like The Matrix, but I have to give it credit where it is due. Heck, without that movie, I would have never sen Shaolin Soccer, which I love. :)
  3. Mar17swgirl Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 26, 2000
    star 7
    I liked Matrix. We all know that it won the Oscars because the Academy hates Lucas.

    But all those, Matrix, Spiderman, etc. are just "flavor of the month"s. Come on, Star Wars has been around for over a quarter of century and it's still the most popular franchise.

    And Star Wars has ALWAYS got bad reviews. Don't take critics too seriously. ;)
  4. sdj Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2002
    star 4
    The Matrix caters to current pop culture. You know the whole cyber-punk black trenchcoat and sunglasses at night wire-fu with current music in the background. 10 years from now people are going to see it like they see a movie like Breaking 2 because it will be so dated. It will be like "Rage Against the Machine? I remember when they were cool."

  5. FatherVader Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 1
    Well, I have seen both AOTC and Spider-man and both are good films but...AOTC does have more of a epic feel to it and I think is far more fun to watch.

    Many critics could care less about a movie being fun, they are way pasted the stage of just looking at a movie based on the fun factor.


    So, they nitpick and do seem to love doing so with Star Wars...look sorry to say it but, that is just the way it is now.
  6. RETURN_OF_THE_SITH Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 1
    I have seen both and I being a fan of spider man before being a star wars fan I have to say that both movie were better than any of the others that have come out this year so far. But star wars I have to say is the better of the 2 just because it has more! Spider man would have been better if they stuck more to the comics and didn't have so many long parts without action. But i guess we will have to see who wins the next bout Epesode 3 or spiderman 2 (probly ep3 if lusas dosn't throw a jar jar on use)
  7. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    In other words, the only thing The Matrix popularized was the bullet time effect while the movie as a whole has had virtually no effect on popular culture.

    And for the record, the bullet time effect was in widespread use in television commercials for at least a year before The Matrix ever came out, and it wasn't even the first film to use that particular technique. The first was actually Lost In Space.

    Calling The Matrix "this generation's Star Wars" is really begging the question. In fact, Star Wars is still this generation's Star Wars as children are still captured by the magic that seems to elude so many jaded adults. When's the last time you sam kids running around with Ray Ban sun-glasses pretending they were Neo? O.K., now when's the last time you saw a kid with a toy lightsaber pretending he's a great Jedi Knight like Annakin or Obi-Wan?

    Frankly, The Matrix has not had nearly the impact that many people try to claim.
  8. abmccray Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 2
    (( Spider man would have been better if they stuck more to the comics and didn't have so many long parts without action. ))

    You mean character development and plot? Now I see why Lucas cut the Padme family scene and the Dooku foreshadowing scene that would have added depth to his character.

    And that's mainly what the article is saying.
  9. Padme Bra Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 1999
    star 6
    I don't know how you can even compare Spider-Man with AOTC. Spider-Man was a by-the-numbers comic book movie, no different from any other one. Anyone with even a passing knowledge of the book could write the entire script. The villain was laughable, the romance was something out of Dawson's Creek, the the FX were amateurish and the action was so-so. It was an ok comic book movie but AOTC was a classic.
  10. Sense-My-Presense Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 18, 2000
    star 3
    Why is there comparison? I went to see Spidey to see a superhero flick. I didn't even care about competition with Star Wars. But after seeing Spidey...I was pissed on how bad it was! Talk about plot holes!!

    My problems with Spidey:

    Where did he get his suit? He could barely afford to live? I don't know any new high school grad that could make that suit or even afford to have it made! The suit gets all ripped up at the end...but then we see him flying around with it all fixed again!!

    Green Goblin evaporates the guys on the ledge so easily...why not Spidey? And where did he get the pumpkin bombs? Why didn't he just sell those weapons to save his company?

    The Green Goblin was not scary or hated. I like to hate the bad guys. When he died...I didn't even care! It was a power ranger with attitude and a stupid laugh!

    Mary Jane is all about Flash and his car...then she doesn't like him anymore and dates Harry...and then falls for Spidey...then all of a sudden she loves Peter? Huh?

    Green Goblin is kicking Spidey's butt...but then a bunch of New Yorkers throw things at him and he's finished?

    Now, I'm sounding totally biased...but I'm not. AOTC had it's problems too. But not stupid problems like those. And the feel of Spidey wasn't as enjoyable as AOTC!!

    My only major complaints about AOTC are..

    Anakin riding the Shaak in the meadow and his love devotion poetic monologue thing with Padme in front of the fire place.

    C-3P0 hanging from the factory droid saying..."I'm Scrap!" But I liked the other C-3PO scenes!

    But Spidey just has a "Cool" mind-set in Hollywood right now. If there were no Star Wars to compare...Spidey would get destroyed by the critics!!
  11. Master_of_Darkness Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2002
    star 4
    What PB said is very true. Nice post. Spiderman wasn't really a great movie, but there will be the people who thinks it all great and crap like that. I was much more impressed by Matrix, which I loved, but it was mostly a flavor of the month. I'm still going to see the next two Matrix movies, but they'll probably be flavor of the months too. The SW Trilogy is one of the greatest things ever, it's the best Sci Fi anything, and though some critics bash it, it'll always be a truly great movie series. The people who made the Spiderman movie can only dream of success and fame like SW.
  12. GriffZ Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2001
    star 6
    People think Spider-Man is better than AOTC because people will believe what they're told, and this is what they've been told.

    They see Spider-Man has a bigger opening weekend, so they think it must be better; they see it has more positive reviews, so it must be better; they read all the Spider-Man vs Star Wars articles (most of which favour Spidey) and they think it must be better. Yet most people I know who ignore this kind of stuff, and merely judge movies based on quality, feel AOTC was better.

    But people are weak. Which is why they should be replaced by advanced, super-intellegent cyborgs programmed to recognize a good movie from a bad one. That would set things right.

  13. Xenomaniac Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 2
    That's what I'm saying. Star Wars is getting a double standard. People are criticizing the FX in AOTC (which btw were excellent), but Spiderman's very cheesy unrealistic special effects are somehow always ignored when there is talk about Spiderman

    just remember -> double standard

    if people nitpicked about Spiderman how they did with AOTC, I don't think there would be any doubt which is a better movie

    and people talk about the acting in AOTC, well...I don't remember anything from Spiderman that paralleled Shakespeare...I mean IMO Kirsten Dunst (who I like for the record) had a much better performance in Bring It On (if you really watch the movie, she does a really good job with who her character was supposed to be), but somehow all this is never discussed along with Spiderman, but if it is brought up people will say: "So, what its just Spiderman, a fun movie" yeah? well how about Star Wars? see what I mean: double standard
  14. FatherVader Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 1
  15. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    Just imagine the reaction if Attack Of The Clones had been released with Spiderman quality effects. Double standard indeed!
  16. abmccray Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 2
    I'm sorry, but your Spider-Man "plot holes" question if you were even paying attention to the movie! It would be easy to like AOTC better if that was the case! They're far worse than even the easily explained "Why doesnt C3PO remember false plothole!"

    ((Where did he get his suit? He could barely afford to live? I don't know any new high school grad that could make that suit or even afford to have it made! The suit gets all ripped up at the end...but then we see him flying around with it all fixed again!!))

    Over a course of months and with Peter being a decent artist, it would be dumb to think that he couldn't make the suit! Have you ever seen cosplayers?! Half of them have less money and time than Peter did!

    ((Green Goblin evaporates the guys on the ledge so easily...why not Spidey? And where did he get the pumpkin bombs? Why didn't he just sell those weapons to save his company? ))

    He didn't want to kill Spider-Man right away. He was intrigued by him, and had a father complex for him, which mirrored Norman Osborn's father complex with Peter Parker. (*cough* villain development, imagine that!)

    ((The Green Goblin was not scary or hated. I like to hate the bad guys. When he died...I didn't even care! It was a power ranger with attitude and a stupid laugh!))

    Then you obviously did not care about Dooku, right? After all, his only development was "He's leading the seperatists!" as compared to Norman's 1/3 of the movie explination of motives.

    ((Mary Jane is all about Flash and his car...then she doesn't like him anymore and dates Harry...and then falls for Spidey...then all of a sudden she loves Peter? Huh?))

    Mary Jane ALWAYS liked Peter! That was shown from the first scene of the movie! It was explained in the movie that she gave off a 'fun time girl' image with people (which would include her relationship with Flash), and Peter was the only person who paid her enough attention for him to be honest with her. Like a typical girl, it took time and maturing for her to realize how much he actually meant to her. That makes perfect logical sense, and is somethign people can relate to, as compared to a 24 year old woman falling for a psycho obsessive whiny genocide commiting 19 year old boy.

    ((Green Goblin is kicking Spidey's butt...but then a bunch of New Yorkers throw things at him and he's finished?))

    Finished? Odd - it seemed to me and most of the other people watching that he was just distracted - long enough for Mary to crawl down a bit.

    Were we watching the same movie?
  17. JediAreJustHippies Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 2001
    star 1
    First let me say that I loved AOTC. I was so happy with it after being disappointed by TPM. So, I'm not an AOTC-basher by any means, but quotes like this:

    >>>Spiderman is the flavor of the month. When it is all said and done will anyone truly remember the movie.<<<

    ...are insane! "Flavor of the month"? Spidey was created back in the 1960s and has been a beloved character since then. Just because the movie's new, doesn't mean Spidey is. Sheesh, why did so many people rush to Harry Potter on opening night? It's because they already loved the franchise in its original form. Furthermore, Spidey made more in it's first (shorter, btw) weekend than AOTC did. I think "when all is said and done" pretty much everyone WILL remember the movie, duh!

    Spider-man was very true to the comics (the only thing I didn't like was GG's new costume), and the love story is infinitely more engaging than the one in AOTC. I do love AOTC, but if anyone thinks that the Anakin/Padme love story is better than the Peter/MaryJane one, well, you should have your head checked.
  18. abmccray Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 2
    AOTC's effects were on the same level as Spidey's except that there were MORE of them. Give me an example of a human in AOTC that was rendered better than Peter (compare Anakin on doodo Naboo creature to Peter on roof, or clonetrooper to rendered full suited Spider-Man towards the end, which is more complex to render than a Clonetrooper, I might add) or the New York that Spider-Man swung through to any city in AOTC - or did you not know that the city was rendered?

    Creatures and monsters are comparitively easy to create and Spider-Man had none of those. Thus, you can only compare what the two movies shared, and they're about neck and neck there.
  19. FatherVader Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 1
    ^ No Spider-Man's CGI was not on the same level as AOTC sorry I just can not go along with that.

    I liked Spider-Man, but that is a little much.
  20. PloKloon1138 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 5, 2001
    star 4
    Spider-Man: A very good movie.
    Attack of the Clones: An excellent, outstanding, wonderful movie.

    I believe my work is done here. :D
  21. abmccray Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 2
    Bluescreening and CG are revolutionary? Could have fooled me.

    By your logic, when I think of TPM, all I can think of is Tron because that's the first movie I saw using computer modeling and people immersed in it.

    Give me a break.
  22. Padme Bra Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 1999
    star 6
    Quote:
    "I do love AOTC, but if anyone thinks that the Anakin/Padme love story is better than the Peter/MaryJane one, well, you should have your head checked."


    Are you kidding? There was nothing to the romance in Spider-Man. It was a typical teen movie-crush type thing. The romance in AOTC was dark and tragic, even if you didn't know that Anakin becomes Vader. They'r enot even on the same level.

    Quote:
    "Give me an example of a human in AOTC that was rendered better than Peter "

    Everything in AOTC was rendered better than Spider-Man. Everything in Spider-Man was in bright primary colors with no texture. And the movement was pure 1997 style CGI. Didn't look natural at all.
  23. DarthZome Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 2000
    star 4
    There are several things I liked about the Matrix:

    1. Mystery. What is the Matrix? How can these people do these superhuman moves? Are the agents good, or bad?

    2. Quality kung-fu scenes. The fights were very well choreographed, incorporating the characters' superhuman skills very naturally.

    3. A new, original style. The bullet-time effects were like nothing I have ever seen before it. Also, most of the special effects had a purpose. Even the bullet-time camera move at the beginning showed that Trinity was warping reality to her whim.

    4.Philosophical undertones. The Matrix is more than just an excuse for a fight. Morpheus puts a new spin on age-old questions about reality, perception, and faith.

    Spider-Man had none of these. Many of the camera swoops and other flashy, techno maneuvers were ripped off of other films (The Matrix, for one). I was absolutely disgusted with the camera moving around the paper airplane scene, as the "bullet time" was unnecessarily long and added almost nothing to the story. They could have just as easily had the screen flash red to show the spider sense.

    In my opinion, attempting to be cool is a sign of immaturity. I was obsessed with coolness in the third grade. I quickly got over it when I realized that obsessing over coolness was not only childish, but moronic and utterly contemptible.

    Now, I could ramble on and on about my opinions of Star Wars, but this post is long enough as it is. So I'll make one quick comment: I deeply respect all the Star Wars movies, including the prequels. They are deeply rooted in mythology, and have many underlying themes. I'm sorry that the press is too arrogant to understand this. My only explanation for their biased reviews is that many reviewers were failure film students who think they have a higher level of understanding than anyone else.
  24. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    abmccrcy, how do you know Spidey was more complex to render than a clonetrooper?

    Do you even know which clonetroopers were key-framed, motion-captured, or shot live-action against a bluescreen?

    I didn't think so. The fact you know which Spidey shots are CG and which were not says it all. :)
  25. HL&S Magistrate Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2001
    star 6
    In order to tell what film was better you need to get the reaction of a person who is easy to please. Someone who wouldn't know a plot if he spent years studying it. Someone who doesn't give a damn about CGI. Someone who's seen the other SW films and watched Spider Man cartoons from the 70's. If you find this person you will get the most honest review of the film. Truly. Well I found such a person.

    This person laughed all the way through Spider-Man. He thought the dialogue, cgi, and bad cameos were hilariously reetaahhded. He saw AOTC and despised Jar Jar and the cgi. But was more interested in Natalie Portmans assets then Kirsten Dunst.

    In his wisdome (lol) he said without a doubt that AOTC was a much better films then Spider-Man. Now this comes from a guy who loves the film X-Men. So he wasn't Marvel hating.

    Out of all the opinions i've gotten from family and friends I value the one from the guy with the mind of a chimpanzee.



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