Why the bad reviews???? Nostalgia...

HA HA HA!! 16 pages of this thread and not one single post explaining what the "nostalgia" argument is! OK, after 16 pages, will someone help me out and tell me what "rose-colored glasses" are and how they make the OT awesome (except for ROTJ) and the PT (with its 50's diner and race announcer) crap? IMO, of course

 

Look....You don't need a degree in Films to see the 12 year old girls laughing at "Serious Parts" of the film.

No ammount of "Putting it in Context"
(by watching all 6 flicks) will repair the failed screenplay of reject Young Indiana Jones writter and his Boss.

How can the final storytelling of EP3 fix
Jar Jar or the "Soap Opera"/"Infomercial"
acting quality of the prequils.

Do you know what suspension of belief is? It's really important when making a movie to preserve it as much as possable. Lucas carelessly tossed out all believable suspension in the Arena scene when Padme and Anikin are making light-hearted jokes while dozens of Jedi are "Apparently" being slaughtered? What ever. And all of those stupid C3PO jokes in a row makes me truly wish these scenes could have been replaced with the rumored Plo Koon/Ki-Adi-Mundi Droid control ship scenes.
Oh yeah I almost forgot... Ani and Obi walk into a bar, Ani says "I think he's a she, and I think she is a changer". It must have taken a staggering amount of genious to pen the following line:
Obi- "In that case be extra carefull".

Ok........?
For me, an analogy to the whole screen
play. Careless writting. Lucas says himself that his focus is to make the visuals so well "Like a comic book" that the dialoge is unnecessary. The OT DID
NOT happen that way.

 

Mit-Fisto, I have an honest question for you. I'm not being sarcastic or anything. I'm just curious. What parts of the past 2 movies did you like?

 

"The way I see it, if the OT was as bad (at least bad in being "equal" to the PT, heh heh) as people are claiming, then I would say to myself "whoa, these movies really aren't as good as I remember"."

Who claimed the PT was as bad as the OT? That's a pretty lame argument. The PT is as good as the OT. I don't need to drag the original films down to the PT's level to enjoy the saga. They're all good films, IMO.

 

"Who claimed the PT was as bad as the OT? That's a pretty lame argument. The PT is as good as the OT. I don't need to drag the original films down to the PT's level to enjoy the saga. They're all good films, IMO."




I have to say the OT is far superior to the PT. The PT is missing one crucial element that was abundant in the OT. It was ONSCREEN CHEMISTRY. There was absolutely no chemistry in the PT. That's why many people like me didn't care about the characters. The other bad thing in the PT not present in the OT is stilted or wooden line deliveries (and I don't mean cheesy). Cheessy dialoge is good if delivered right.

 

Just because you didn't feel any chemistry doesn't mean it wasn't there. Many people enjoyed the relationship between Obi-Wan and Anakin in AOTC, and even between Anakin and Padme (corny dialogue aside).

 

I think a great example of what I mean by viewing the OT through rose tinted specs, is the "childish" factor. This probably applies more to TPM, than AOTC, but detractors of both movies have labelled them as basically films for children.
Guess what, ANH was made for children, and this isn't some post-facto explanation by George Lucas to get the critics off his back. The book, Easy riders, Raging bulls, a great gossipy read about the movies and directors who defined the 70's, has quotes from George and Marcia Lucas, proving beyond a doubt that SW was always aimed primarily at children between 8-14, what would now be called tweenagers.
I honestly believe that the majority of bashers are just individuals who have out-grown SW, but cling to some nostalgic memory of how they loved the OT as children.
It's not that the gungans are inherently more annoying than the jawas or ewoks, it's not that dexter's diner is any cheesier than the cantina, with it's alien pop band, it's just that they've grown up and now find all the childish, twee elements of the PT grating. Star Wars always had a child like quality to it, and I think those who were looking for a cross between the Matrix and Lord of the rings, which in essence is quite a dark tale, have inevitably been disappointed by the prequels.
I've just recently completed watching the OT on vhs, and whilst I thoroughly enjoyed it, I haven't wavered in my opinion that AOTC is the second best SW movie after TESB, and will just have to agree to differ with those who believe it can't hold a candle to ANH or ROTJ.

 

TokyoXtreme:

---Bear with me JohnWilliams00, because I know you have heard all my sentiments before, but I'd like to agree that if anything, nostalgia would only work to make the PT seem BETTER than what it actually is. Not worse.

No prob. In fact, we need to defend ourselves from these "nostalgia" accusations.

Also, I personally don't keep watching films because they give me a warm fuzzy feeling the way Grandma's home-baked cookies do. Mmmm. The OT, especially ESB and ANH, stand up just like any other classic -- Citizen Kane, GWTW, and the Godfather, because they are technically well-crafted, meaningful films. There's no need to excuse Citizen Kane or Godfather for cheesy dialogue or weak acting because it doesn't have any. If gushers don't feel that the OT and PT is different, then that's fine. I'm nt trying to convince or sway people, I just want to defend myself and others when we are accused of clinging to the OT just because of -- there's that word again - nostalgia. It's a little insulting to be told we like something for the sole reason it gives us warm memories of being a kid again. If that were true, I would've moved onto bigger and better things a long time ago. But I still watch Star Wars because it's rare and special.

Btw, I think a lot of people are overly harsh to Batman and Robin. That movie was just as good as any of the other films. You guys are just biased and are looking at Batman 1 and 2 through rose-colored glasses. Joel Schumacher is our modern day Shakespeare.

 

Btw, I think a lot of people are overly harsh to Batman and Robin. That movie was just as good as any of the other films. You guys are just biased and are looking at Batman 1 and 2 through rose-colored glasses. Joel Schumacher is our modern day Shakespeare


*Punches JWOO in the face*

 

Thanks, Import Jedi.

 

*ducks, does backflip against a wall, finishes it off with The Chicken Dance.*

Well, now you know how annoying it is to be accused of favoring the OT with "rose-colored glasses." I used Batman and Robin as a ludicrous example, and obviously we know it's not true. (We can all nearly agree Batman and Robin was horrible.)

Just reading the very title of this thread is annoying. "Why the bad reviews??? Nostalgia...." Gee, we have it all figured out then.

 

Great post, SCOTSSITHLORD!

In summary, my distrust for movie critics is that there are too many "experts" out there. You can find good and bad reviews from just about anywhere. "Too many cooks in the kitchen" if you ask me.

"we need to defend ourselves from these "nostalgia" accusations"

Why do you feel the need to defend yourselves? I'm not an enemy, I just think some people have raised OT to a status where no other SW film can be better...OR EVEN THEIR EQUAL. That's all I'm looking for, recognize the strengths and weaknesses of both "trilogies" and enjoy them EQUALLY until "the circle is now complete."

 

"I honestly believe that the majority of bashers are just individuals who have out-grown SW, but cling to some nostalgic memory of how they loved the OT as children."

and i honestly believe that the majority of people who think AOTC and TPM are great (or even good) movies are just individuals who never outgrew their childish tastes to be able see that the OT works on an adult level, and are therefore unable to see that the PT cannot be enjoyed on the same level (adult and child) as the OT, because they are simply NOT on the same level as the OT.

the "its for kids" argument is old, tired, and totally unfounded... unless you think kids like to watch political maneuverings, decapitaions, and droll love scenes in front of a fire.

 

But I know loads of 'casual' fans who really liked AOTC but would never dream of being so sad as to post on a Star Wars message board, because they don't care that much.

What about this 'silent majority', can you 'factor them in' to your calculations?

I find this to be one of the most peculiar things. Prequel gushers always say that their friends generally like the prequels whereas bashers usually say that their friends, people they've talked to, etc say they didn't like the prequels.

All I can say is that from my experience I've experienced the same thing as you but opposite. In light of this I can only conclude that there is a small majority or a large minority of total star wars fans (rabid + casual) who like the prequels. It isn't exact science by a long shot but it's pretty close to the truth.

From my point of view your small majority or large minority is silent to me!

 

I'd be interested to hear comments from adults who have seen the PT and OT only as adults. That would be far more objective from the "adult" perspective than someone who got hooked on the OT as a kid.

EDIT: Great, now people are statistics experts.

 

It would also help if someone would explain to me how nostalgia makes the OT better and the PT worse. And what is rose-colored glass? Please, my fellow Star Warriors, shed some light.

 

You sound like the Emperor. "My fellow Star Warriors"




Edit : stuttering

 

no why there aren't any Batman & Robin gushers? Because the film was CRAP!
Know why there are millions of AOTC gushers? Because the film was GOOD!
The facts speak for themselves . . .

 

There are also tons and tons of Britney Spears / N*Sync / Backstreet Boys gushers too... does this fact therefore make any of these three acts good? Discuss.

 

What's wrong with Britney Spears? I'm not exactly into the music itself but the music videos and live performances are pretty good. If she wants to keep making them, I say we let her! It's her vision and who are we to stand in the way of an artist expressing their vision?

 

Britney Spears I can tolerate - for some reason I won't go into
N'Sync and Backstreet Boys - let's just say I have the same feelings about them that Anakin has about Tusken Raiders.

But AOTC isn't a film that only stupid kids love, so the comparison is hardly accurate.

 

There's no need to excuse Citizen Kane or Godfather for cheesy dialogue or weak acting because it doesn't have any.

Godfather, no.
Citizen Kane on the other hand...has some of the worst acting and one of the worst lines EVER.

Bad Line "Let's go to the window!" (poorly acted as well).
Bad Acting: The mistress. She was god-awful, making me cringe in pain everytime she said a word. Now, the rest of the acting was pretty good. However, most people seem to overlook these two bad points and call Citizen Kane the best film ever.

Also I should remind you of some of the horrid dialogue and acting in ANH and yet it is highly praised amongst critics.

 

<<<It would also help if someone would explain to me how nostalgia makes the OT better and the PT worse. And what is rose-colored glass? Please, my fellow Star Warriors, shed some light.>>>

You're not able to make sense of it 'cause it makes no sense! They're trying to say that when you and I watch the OT and praise it, we're actually praising our childhood memories more than the films themselves. Prequel gushers have very few arguments to offer, which is why this one is used as often as it is.

Fact is, if my fond memories of Star Wars would do anything, they'd cause me to look past the many gutwrenching flaws in the prequels, being that I'd be so giddy while seeing the return of lightsabers, 3P0, R2, the patented sound effects, Skywalkers, and the many other familiar elements that used to excite me as a kid. Now that I think of it, maybe that's why prequel gushers are blind to the lack of quality in the PT. They can see no wrong in it because it reminds them of their youths. They view the prequels through rose-colored glasses. If that isn't the answer, it must simply be a severe lack of taste.

 

<<<It would also help if someone would explain to me how nostalgia makes the OT better and the PT worse. And what is rose-colored glass? Please, my fellow Star Warriors, shed some light.>>>


Time heals all wounds...

Meaning in the 16 years that passed between the release of ROTJ and TPM, fans may have either forgotten the flaws that stood out from the OT or accepted them.

Either that, or what we saw in the OT was something that was completely new to cinema at that time.

Whereas now, as the PT is released, we have literally hundreds of movies and some TV series (recent films like ID-4 to old series like Battlestar Galactica and The Last Starfighter) that tried to mimic the SW Saga...causing some fans to be jaded in terms of feeling that what we see in the PT is nothing new.

 

I seriously doubt if anyone in 20 years time is gonna waste their time moaning about the prequels. There will simply be two types of people - those who love the Star Wars Saga and those who don't.