Why the bad reviews???? Nostalgia...

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by 18-Toys, Jun 30, 2002.

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  1. endboss Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 1998
    star 3
    <<<I seriously doubt if anyone in 20 years time is gonna waste their time moaning about the prequels. There will simply be two types of people - those who love the Star Wars Saga and those who don't.>>>

    I expect the OT and PT to end up like the Godfather films. Godfather 1 and 2 are seen as one thing, while part 3 is something separate. Or another film I love, Halloween. The original Halloween is a classic on the level of Psycho and Night of the Living Dead, while the Halloween sequels can be dismissed as Friday the 13th-level crap. I'll bet you a steak dinner I'm right.
  2. Krash RSA Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2000
    star 5
    "Whereas now, as the PT is released, we have literally hundreds of movies and some TV series (recent films like ID-4 to old series like Battlestar Galactica and The Last Starfighter) that tried to mimic the SW Saga...causing some fans to be jaded in terms of feeling that what we see in the PT is nothing new."

    You raise a good point, when "STAR WARS" (as it was known then) came to theaters, sci-fi was a dying genre. Trek had been off the air for many years; and the majority of what was considered "science fiction" were depressing cold-war inspired nightmares that made the "grundge" movement of the 1990s look like a day in the park with Barney the dinosaur! Then SW came along and ushered in a new era of sci-fi; with groundbreaking specil effects. Did you notice that whenever a sci-fi movie comes out nowadays, it is called something like "the STAR WARS for a new generation." The Hollywood hype machines are loking for the next big thing, and in the process, have given any half-a$$ed movie (Matrix, Starship Troopers) this crown for being "the next Star Wars." Except for GL's prequle trilogy; because the only thing people like to see more then a winner...is for a winner to fall out of the spotlight.

    Nostalgia is hurting the PT because some fans think the OT is untouchable, while many in Hollywood think it's time to crown a new king.
  3. DrEvazan Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2002
    star 4
    i love the godfather.. parts 1 and 2
    part 3 blows hot clams.

    i love star wars... episodes IV and V and to a lesser degree VI
    parts I and II blow hot clams.

    im still a fan of the godfather... people who know me know im a star wars fan.

    i dont think i have to like every james bond film to be a fan of james bond. most bond fans dont. they know some are weak and some are strong. they still love james bond.

    where did this idea of "if you dont love all the films you arent a fan" come from?

    i dont think you are any more or less of a fan if you dont love all the films in a series equally. because if you are being honest, you cant possibly think all the films are of equal quality.

    raiders is great, temple of doom is mediocre, last crusade has its moments.... im still a fan of indiana jones.

  4. darth_pooh Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 1, 2002
    star 4
    It comes from the desire to love everything that Lucas' fat little hands touch...

    It's the "Auteur Theory" gone wild in the land of pop-psychology... :p
  5. DrEvazan Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2002
    star 4
    the thing is i know star wars can still be that king of hollywood... but "I" dont think the PT films live up to the standards created by the originals... thats not nostalgia thats just a natural thing to expect... consistency of quality.

    just as some of the 20+ bond films are not all the BEST of the series.

    the films of the PT IMO are just not as good as other films in the series... not because they dont have the same characters and actors or because the plots are different, but because IMO they are just not good films with or WITHOUT the OT.
  6. Imperial_Guard Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 13, 2002
    star 4
    I can agree with that to a certain extent. I don't think the prequels "blow hot clams" like you do but I do prefer the OT and I think consistency of quality and the "lightning in a bottle" phenomenon are important factors to be considered.
  7. topgoalscorer_no11 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 23, 2001
    star 3
    But I really like Episodes I & II.

    I really enjoy watching them, again and again.

    I'm certain I'm not stupid. The only place anyone would accuse me of being stupid is in here. Why, because I like the Star Wars prequels?

    What I don't understand is the ridiculous hyperbole that is bandied about so freely on this board.

    Dr Evazan, I too like Godfather I & II, but not III. I too don't think RotJ was as great as ANH and ESB.

    Yet due to some genetic flaw I genuinely like Episode I and II. And then I come here, and rather than having a kind of 'god this is cheesy, this acting's bad but we're all fans together really' kind of debate, I get called an idiot and a moron for liking the prequelsm, and see George Lucas derided at every turn despite that he's responsible for every single person in here's favourite films of all time.

    I'm hounded by people criticising my grammar when I question their assertion that the OT is superior to the PT 'on every single level'.

    Why?
  8. dahveed72 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 3
    Its ok to like a crappy movie!! theres absolutely nothing wrong with that.
  9. topgoalscorer_no11 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 23, 2001
    star 3
    But I generally don't like crappy movies at all. Most people I know didn't think AOTC was crap.

    Some of the dialogue was awful. But most of it was passable at least. The prequels are very well made films. Lucas is not some terrible 'hack' who has no idea what he's doing. I just don't see it.

    I don't understand why you're all so pissed off? Even if I didn't like the films it wouldn't bother me that much. I certainly wouldn't come here and annoy people about it.
    You need to take a chill pill. It's like you suffered an injustice. When I see a bad film, the last thing I want to do is endlessly go on about it every day of my life.

    Honest question. Why do you all do it? I genuinely want to know why you bother?
  10. JohnWilliams00 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 29, 2002
    star 4
    The OT can stand on its own (and has for many years.)

    The PT relies too much on the OT to save it, and without it, it's a lost and confused child.
  11. JohnWilliams00 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 29, 2002
    star 4
    Honest question. Why do you all do it? I genuinely want to know why you bother?

    Because, unlike what many gushers believe, there are a ton of people out there who don't give a crap about the last two Star Wars films. Trying to strike a conversation with them about SW is usually as futile as Rosie O'Donnell jumping through hula hoops.

    That's why I've asked for a nice little basher-type thread, were people who share the same opinions can hang out and chill. But since that isn't allowed (I don't see why not), we are forced to discuss SW in threads like "DO you feel Jar Jar is justified?".

    At the same time, so what if there are different opinions? Are we breaking some divine law if I say I think the PT blows hot clams? (which they do). Go to work, school, or anywhere else and there are opinion you may not like, why should a forum be so squeaky-clean and smooth? Hey, on the flipside, I have to tolerate hundreds of posts with sweeping statements like "Lucas is the Shakespeare of our time." I don't like it, but I leave a lot of it alone.

    Believe it or not, gushers overwhelm bashers by a large degree in my opinion, so it's hardly the "epidemic" people make it out to be.



  12. Imperial_Guard Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 13, 2002
    star 4
    Since we're on the topic, wouldn't "bashers" find the OT forum more appealing? I'm not taking sides, but why consistently post in the prequel forums and focus your energy on something you think "blows hot clams" rather than simply go to the OT forum and focus more on something that you can actually enjoy?
  13. Duckman Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2000
    star 4
    Bond films? Give me a break! They're remade the same film 20 times. Watch one, seen them all. Star Wars is unique as a six part movie epic. Miss out any part of the story (even the crappy TPM and ROTJ) and you're only hurting yourself.
  14. Undomiel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2002
    star 4
    Imperial Guard,

    Re: your sig!! I saw that Triumph the Dog skit. I hadn't laughed that hard in awhile. My fav was the pregnant lady. "You got a jedi in the making in there?" "Yes." (laughter) I won't finish what he says but I about fell off my chair. Here's a silly little something I found on the web that is similarly quirky [not Star Wars-related], just not quite as risque' as Triumph:
    Ask Ugot!
  15. Imperial_Guard Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 13, 2002
    star 4
    I think Ugot might have a sock on these boards. 8-} Funny stuff.

    Yeah, that sketch is the new bar for Star Wars comedy. I still laugh when I see it. There should still be a thread devoted to its glory on the first page. :D
  16. AL Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1998
    star 5

    I seriously doubt if anyone in 20 years time is gonna waste their time moaning about the prequels. There will simply be two types of people - those who love the Star Wars Saga and those who don't.

    People will be able to see the prequels as what they truly are, come 2022. They will see that the Star Wars saga was revisited due to the financial aspirations and gigantic hubris of Lucas.

    And people will also be able to see ANH as what it is, too: a masterpiece.
  17. topgoalscorer_no11 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 23, 2001
    star 3
    'Because, unlike what many gushers believe, there are a ton of people out there who don't give a crap about the last two Star Wars films.'

    Fair enough. I have friends who've never watched any Star Wars film, and would hate it if they did. But that goes for the OT too I'm afraid.

    'Are we breaking some divine law if I say I think the PT blows hot clams? (which they do).' Of course not. But this little vignette illustrates the annoyingly final and didactic line bashers seem to feel they have to take. The idea that your views are somehow superior to mine, based on some unquantifiable qualitative difference between the PT and OT that I'm too stupid or blind to fathom is a stupid one. If this is the way you're going to present yourselves, don't run around crying when people converge to try and shoot you down for it. The basher's whining and acting superior at the same time is an unfortunate combination.

    'Hey, on the flipside, I have to tolerate hundreds of posts with sweeping statements like "Lucas is the Shakespeare of our time."'

    You have to 'tolerate'? Why do you think it's an attack on you? You have every reason for wanting to pick someone up for saying something that ludicrous without having to take it personally. You come across as bitter.

    'Believe it or not, gushers overwhelm bashers by a large degree in my opinion, so it's hardly the "epidemic" people make it out to be.'

    I know it's not an epidemic. This might be the problem. You represent an oppressed minority with an axe to grind, and resort to expressind yourselves in an overly aggressive manner, to make up for it.

    It doesn't really annoy me, but it ruins what could be an interesting debate. Because of people like you, I, and I bet many others, feel we cannot ever agree with you, as we have a position to defend.

    If the bashers were a little less dictatorial in their views, then I think the level of debate and discussion would rise a bit, and the pathetic little slanging matches would end.

    But who cares really?

    Anyone who says 'The PT blows hot clams' and will brook no disagreement on the matter is a bit of poor debater, if that's what they're supposedly interested in.
  18. TokyoXtreme Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2001
    star 4
    Meaning in the 16 years that passed between the release of ROTJ and TPM, fans may have either forgotten the flaws that stood out from the OT or accepted them.

    But we are able to watch the OT as much as we want, and analyze the faults all we want to. The movies did not disappear after the theatrical release; instead they were widely available on VHS, HBO, LD, and DVD (I've heard rumors about eBay). I watched the films from time to time, and never really felt there were any serious problems. The Tarzan yell seems to stand out though...

    To use an appropriate analogy, I bought the Transformers movie on DVD last year. I was a huge TF fan back in the 80s (more so than Star Wars, definitely), and it had been years since I saw the film or episodes of the series. The film has its moments, but is far, far worse than I remember, to the point of being borderline unwatchable. I thought to myself, "what in the world was I thinking?" I can objectively say the writing and overall quality of the series was much better, but often far from perfect.

    That said, let me tell you that one day in 1995, a friend of mine told me that his dad bought ESB on laserdisc. Although I was hestitant to indulge in nostalgia and watch a 2-hour-plus space-shooter kidflick, I was quite curious to see how much better a widescreen presentation would look vs. the more common pan-and-scan. You have to remember that the mid 90s was the real start of the pan-and-scan backlash, and somewhere I saw a side-by-side comparison of two scenes from ROTJ. That being the case, I set aside my objections and watched.

    To say the least, I was completely surprised by how solid, well-crafted, and most importantly, how entertaining it was! From that moment on, I was convinced of two things: 1) widescreen is always better (I really mean "original aspect ratio" of course), and ESB is an unabashedly awesome movie. It is so good, that you don't have to like Star Wars, or for that matter, even be in a good mood to appreciate it. No explanations, no excuses... ESB is massively impressive on all levels, and has few faults. All this from a film released in 1980 -- the dinosaur age of special effects (although some of my favorite "effect" films come from that era -- the OT being the main inspiration probably!).

    So what to say about the PT that hasn't already been said? Well, I could say a lot, but if I were to seriously post these sentiments I would be "bashed" by "gushers". Highly... illogical.



    P.S. I'm still waiting for someone to explain how nostalgia makes the OT better and the PT worse.
  19. Qui Gon Binks Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 1999
    star 1
    Quit crying about nostalgia...you're the same people who are accusing people who like the prequel trilogy as deluded fanboys who will eat any kind of crap Lucas throws on the screen...explain this idiotic position to me my friend.
  20. Duckman Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2000
    star 4
    Proof that prequel bashers are clouded by nostaligia: they think ROTJ is better than AOTC.

    Case closed, my friends. :)
  21. TokyoXtreme Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2001
    star 4
    Qui Gon Binks, why don't you attack my logic and not my character? A bit more difficult, isn't it? Please explain to me this whole nostalgia theory.
  22. Qui Gon Binks Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 1999
    star 1
    I don't have to explain it...it's not my theory. As for attacking your character, I don't know you, you don't know me...I have only what you and others like you have said about those who like the prequel movies. As if you can't be a real Star Wars fan unless you're a sanctimonious hater of the prequels.
  23. TokyoXtreme Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2001
    star 4
    It's OK; I'm actually a "fake fan" who only likes SW, ESB, and ROTJ.
  24. Qui Gon Binks Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 1999
    star 1
    If you weren't being sarcastic, I'd say you came around.
  25. Import_Jedi Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2001
    star 6
    P.S. I'm still waiting for someone to explain how nostalgia makes the OT better and the PT worse.

    But I thought I DID explain it!... :_|


    ...sort of.
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