Why the disdain for the Special Editions?

My *only* complaint about the Special Editions is that when Lucas and Co. fixed up A NEW HOPE, they did *nothing* to fix Obi-Wan's zappy lightsaber!

To this day, that's the only moment (for me) when the entire wonderful cinematic illusion that is the STAR WARS Saga completely breaks down.

 

Han's head-bob makes the SE's almost unwatchable for me. The CGI xwings help, but only because it comes at the other end of the film.

This, and the DD 5.1 soundtrack, are the only reasons why I am considering getting the OT:SE LDs (before any more changes are made.)

 

guittarjedi-

take a closer look and you may notice that every ship in the closing shots of ESB have been poorly CG'ed. The worst looking are the outside shots of the ship that Luke, Leia and the droids are actually in. Have you guys ever seen the REAL version of ESB? It looks much better.

You may want to compare the two versions yourself. As I said, the only thing that, to my knowledge, was altered was the image of Luke, Leia, 3PO and R2.

Here are a few links to help you in your (possible) research:

THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK Annotations

The Empire Strikes Back Special Edition - What has Changed?

If you are correct, I will glady concede that I am mistaken.

But if you are wrong, then you should surely be able to concede that you are unable to tell the difference between a CGI ship and a model ship.

-Otis

 

I've already seen both of those sites and guess what, they left out some things. In the REAL version of ESB when R2 is spit out of the mouth of the monster on Dagobah Luke says "Are you alright? You're lucky you don't taste very good". In the Stupid Editions Luke just says "You're lucky you got out of there". I did a thread discussing this about six months ago and many people hadn't noticed that change till I brought it to there attention. These are my favorite movies, I notice these things. Now kneel before guittarjedi.

 

Really? I hadn't noticed that!

Is it re-dubbed lines, or alternate footage?

 

Alternate footage. No one knows why this change was done. I haven't been able to get to the bottom of this.

 

That's so funny. I will have to check that out.

Hey, can you recommend a site that shows all (or most) of these changes.

 

GJ, let's show a little more respect for Otis. You guys can disagree, but keep it civil.

 

Master Salty or should I say Darth Stryphe, he insulted me first by saying I don't know the difference between CGI and models.

Mebejedi, I don't know of any site that talks about it. As far as I know I'm one of the very few people that noticed it.

 

guittarjedi,

While he didn't exactly accuse you of it, I can understand why you'd feel slighted.

Best revenge: Prove him wrong

"Revenge is a dish best served cold"

(Ooops, wrong movie forum )

 

Master Salty or should I say Darth Stryphe, he insulted me first by saying I don't know the difference between CGI and models.



Trust me, we're two different people.

Two wrongs don't make a right. You guys disagree and that's great. Sometimes, I can't tell the difference between the two myself. Let's just let this slide and get back to discussing the SE's. Please?

 

" Two wrongs don't make a right."

But 3 lefts do.....

(figure that one out )

 

Sounds like a triangle to me.

 

3 left turns...

Driving through a city, if you make 3 consecutive left turns, you'd be heading in the same direction as if you'd made 1 right turn.

Tricky, no?

 

Nighty-night, y'all!

BTW, Salty, I'm getting tired of tagging you. You're too slow

 

I didn't insult anyone.

And guittarjedi, you did not say anything about the (supposed) alterations I was discussing. I didn't say anything about Luke and R2. I was talking about the ending of ESB and the (alleged) chnages made to the starships that you were making refernce to in a previous post.

Now, there may have been omissions made at the two sites I posted. They were not meant to be a full accounting of all of the changes made, they were merely a starting point for you if you wanted to take me up on my challenge.

I meant no offense, and I'm sory if you inferred otherwise. I simply offered an alternate analysis of the ending of the ESB and the possible changes made to it.

The Empire Strikes Back is my favorite film, as well. I notice things too. But I would not be opposed to being proven wrong.

-Otis

 

Hard to say exactly, for me the SE seems to look like glitz that was added to the film while no corrections were made to the original film itself. ANH was the worst I think, ESB was the best and Jedi is somewhere in between.

Yes, I do hate the Greedo scene re-edit, but there are other things I don't like. The improvements to Mos Esley (sp?) seemed unnecessary as to me, even though it was a busy space port, it was still a busy space port on a planet considered the hind end of space and as a result, the original appearance seemed to command that more. Sloppy edits weren't corrected, such as the R5 droid that appears in two places at once when the droids are being sold to Owen. Obi Wan's winking lightsaber is the other thing that could have been improved easily enough one figures. The addition of the Biggs scene was a very nice touch and I loved it. Biggs on Tatooine probably won't be added to a new edit since it doesn't quite mesh with the edit of Luke being introduced later. But I hope it makes it as a deleted scene on the OT DVDs at least.

The Jabba scene addition was cute, but considering the repeat of dialog between Jabba and Han vs. the dialog between Greedo and Han, it seemed like unneccesary duplication rather then plot advancement (including the gratuitous Boba Fett moment at the end). In a sense, GL deleted something similar out of AOTC when he took out the conversation between Mace and Kenobi in the hangar because it was pretty much a duplication of dialog between Yoda and Kenobi after the the younglings session.

Sound editing was an improvement for the most part, but what was the deal with making Leia's Stormtrooper blaster in the Power Trench sequence sound like a .22 calibre pistol??? That one just kind of destroyed the immersion for me as my brain is no longer engrossed in the story, but is instead thinking how this laser gun now sounds like a 20th century firearm. The little bleep sounds added to the Falcon were a nice touch.

The CGI combat additions were more dynamic, but didn't seem like much of an improvement. There were also some errors in the X-Wing paint jobs that seemed glaring. At least when Dykstra and the ILM crew did the effects originally, there seemed to be an effort to match the model footage of a specific X-Wing with a specific pilot. This time there were problems. Red 5 appears to have Red 2s paint job instead (and in the Death Star approach flyby pan, we see Luke and R2 sitting in Red 2, not Wedge) and it has an unbroken side stripe on the nose while the model shots still show the original Red 5 studio model. Now if they were trying to match the appearance of the full size set model, then couldn't they have just done a little photoshop style retouch to the set piece scenes to make it look more like the studio model (such as a gray area on the nose to break up the stripe)?

ESB, like I said seems to be the best of the SE versions. The added windows to Cloud City's cooridors were a nice touch. Vader's shuttle flight might not have been needed, but at least it was a simple add and didn't try to top other scenes. But there are a couple examples of reversed footage still in the ESB print (mainly the discussion about the deactivation of the Falcon's hyperdrive on the SD bridge) that could have been flopped or altered.

Jedi is a little better then ANH. Jedi Rocks doesn't seem to add much, but admittedly the aliens do indeed look more alien and less like puppets. But we do have another gratuitous Boba Fett scene that didn't seem to be needed again. The final scene is a bit more personal preference then anything and I can take it or leave it. I'd say that if I were considering the EU, then the original ending seems more likely as although the Emperor is dead, the Empire still has a big foothold over the rest of the galaxy and its not over for the Rebellion yet. In which case, dancing and celebrating in the heart of Corescant doesn't seem likely. But then again, the scene does seem to add to the scope of the Rebel's victory and by itself it does seem to be a nice touch to me when just

 

WHY THE DISDAIN FOR THE SPECIAL EDITIONS??

Where do I start? The CGI effects added in subtract from the impact of ANH. Once a painting is finished, and its hanging in The Louvre you don't go back in there and re-touch it up 10 years later - the security guards are going to arrest you. There is no point in the CGI effects added into ANH. Its just doing it for the sake of it - rather like climbing a mountain: because its there.

 

Once a painting is finished, and its hanging in The Louvre you don't go back in there and re-touch it up 10 years later - the security guards are going to arrest you.

Your analogy is a bit (forgive the expression) dodgy for 2 reasons, IMHO:

1) I feel that, as an artist, no matter when I "finish" something, I always have the right to return to it later on if I want to do so. This has been done since time immemorial by artists in every medium. There is no rule, law or any other official restriction that I'm aware of which states otherwise. You may not like a change made to a piece, but that does not make it "wrong" in the strictest sense.

2) The "piece of art" in question is not hanging in any museum. It is still owned by the artist (or originator, as it were) and is a work-in-progress whether you like it or not. As I said before, the continued production of the Prequels is proof of this. My basis for considering it a work-in-progress is my opinion that the Star Wars Saga on the whole is all that matters in the end, not the individual films. This would seem to be GL's approach as well, and I wholeheartedly agree with it.

I'm not trying to take away your opinion about the changes, you're welcome to them. But they are not "wrong" and it is entirely within Lucas's rights to make them.

-Otis

 

Its just doing it for the sake of it - rather like climbing a mountain: because its there.

This clearly isn't true. Lucas didn't change the originals "for the heck of it," if you will. He had long been unsatisfied with those editions and wanted to change them to fit his original version.

 

Instead of ranting on here, I'd like you to take a look at the Not-so-Special-Editions thread for comments on why people do not like the Special Editions.

 

The only problem is that Star Wars is the work of a number of artists colloboration....some of whom aren't involved with George Lucas anymore.

 

Meaning what?

[EDIT]
Not trying to slam you, just wondering why Lucas is incapable of making these changes without his original "participants"?

 

I think there were some really good additions to the movies. Like the short but sweet love scene between Boba and that wierd chick in the palace. Or the scene showing the X-wings on there way to the death star.

But then, looking back. I think the sarlacc pit was a huge mistake. It may have looked okay in 1997, but looking back. It really doesn't. The pit looks alot scarier before than it does after (in my oppinion). Also the music scene in jabba's palace is pretty rediculous and lacks authenticity (horrible cgi).

Then theres the scene were Luke, Obi and the droids are skimming into Mos Eisly. Very poorly done, it looks like a cut scene from some shabby game.

So there you have it, yes and no......