Why the disdain for the Special Editions?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Radiohead, Jan 25, 2003.

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  1. Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2001
    star 6
    And I find it funny that some people (I'm not talking about anyone in particular) think minor flaws or mistakes in the PT should be improved, or that they show GL is losing his touch, yet they can "live" with the flaws of the OT.

    I don't see this a lot, if your talking technical improvements, and in that case, you might as well leave the OT alone. If someone doesn't like the CGI in the PT, would you expect them to like the same CGI in the OT? Might as well leave the old look in tact. At least it's consistant. ANH-SE is anything but visually consistancy. You have good CGI, bad CGI, and then a whole lot of rather static old models and sets.

  2. Master Salty Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 1999
    star 6
    ANH:SE is very much a mixed bag of effects.
  3. DarthPhelps Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 31, 2002
    star 5
    IMO the only CGI that looks really out of place in ANH is the Jabba insertion.

    I loved that extra shot of the Falcon rising out of Docking Bay 94, and the extra shots of Mos Eisley. They don't seem out of place at all. It gives a better feel for how the city really is. The old version doesn't let you see too much.

    The extra CGI shots of the X-Wings departing Yavin IV, and approaching the Death Star seem like seamless insertions to me.
  4. batvader Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 23, 2002
    star 3
    As it has been said a zillion times, they are Lucas' films, and he can do whatever he wants with them. That doesn't mean that I agree with all the changes, or that I would personally do changes if I had a word on it, but I just accept them and move on. The SE films are still fun, and SW is about having fun.

    What really irritated me was Jedi Rocks. Lapti Nek wasn't a masterpiece, but it was suitable with Jabba's dirty and quite darkly comical character. The new song is just noise, and as sure as hell it doesn't have anything to do with ''Jedis'' or ''Rock'' music. And the new scenes in Jabba's dump were maybe just extraneous and time consuming. No more, no less.
  5. DarthPhelps Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 31, 2002
    star 5
    I really get confused most by people complaining about the "jedi rocks" song.

    But then, I don't understand the appeal to most pop music either, so maybe it's just me.

    Personally, I cringe at the original tune. Ewww.
  6. YoungPadawanLearner Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2002
    star 4
    Personally, I cringe at the original tune. Ewww



    Glad to know I'm not the only one. I hated the craptacular old version.
  7. ForceHeretic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2002
    star 4
    I don't have any problem with the SE except having Han not shoot first, and Jedi Rocks

    All other changes I thought didn't really add or take away from anything, except for the new ending for ROTJ. I thought it was beautiful and much more suiting then the old version

    Back when it was released, the Yub-yub song was fine. But since then Star Wars has grown to be much more than just popular movies, they have become a part of our culture. And with the change in importance that has happened I think the new ending signifies this much better
  8. Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2001
    star 6
    IMO the only CGI that looks really out of place in ANH is the Jabba insertion.

    The ronto looked pretty bad, to me. Also, the Wedge attack, while cool, was much more fast pace than the rest of the space battles in ANHSE.
  9. Radiohead Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 2002
    star 4
    I think one thing that's been ignored in this otherwise great discussion (concerning the CG effects) is that today, we have been spoiled by all the glitzy effects of blockbuster sci-fi movies. Our standards even a few years ago is much different compared to our standards for CG effects today.
  10. Oakessteve Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 9, 1999
    star 6
    The special edition of Star Wars reminds me of the theatrical version of Blade Runner. Great stuff going on in there, but let down by some very silly additions. Of course, the thing that saves Blade Runner is the director's cut, but the problem with the special edition, is that it is the director's cut.
  11. batvader Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 23, 2002
    star 3
    I like new stuff, but I would also like to have the originals in my collection alongside the definitive new versions.

    It's not an issue of the originals being better (IMO the new stuff improves things, and I can ''live'' with Jedi Rocks or Greedo shooting first), it's the fact that they should be in any collector's shelf because of their historical importance (I hope it ddoesn't sound corny ;) ) It's the originals that grabbed the attention in the first place all those years ago.

    So, it would be nice if they released two separate DVDs for each film.

    One with the Arhival/Ultimate/Definitive edition featuring tons of extra stuff and cover artwork similar to the prequels (stylish artwork image, episode numbers etc.)

    One ''bare-bones'' DVD with the original THX version featuring basic stuff (just trailers etc.), and the old ''crude'' poster artwork featuring just the film's title and no episode numbers.

    Casual, non-knowledgable fans would still be attracted by the AEs DVDs because of the extras and the better artwork that is similar to the prequels. Lucas need not to worry.

    Purists would buy BOTH (I am sure about that).

    Collectors would get them all.

    They would still make money because most would buy both DVDs, fans would have them all, everyone would be happy.
  12. Lanky Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2002
    star 4
    I thought I heard once that the ESB dialouge alteration in the swamp was simply using a different sound version of the film that was of better quality. Like they did with the ANH SE "Close the blast doors!"

    Come to think of it wasn't this already mentioned in this thread?
  13. guittarjedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 4
    Everybody's got a different theory about that change but no one has any concrete proof. The rumor I keep hearing is that the film was too deteriorated to use that scene. I don't buy that for a second. LFL has every possible film restoration technology at their disposal so I'm sure they could salvage any scene that they wanted to.
  14. -Winter- Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2002
    star 2
    Being someone who's never seen the original original trilogy, and didn't know the flippin' differences between the original and the SE (please don't hurt me [face_blush]), I think I can offer a different perspective because I was never *attached* to the original version.

    And I still find some parts od the movies not... right. Parts which I knew were altered or added in the SE after I watched the movies. Greedo shooting first, bad ANH CG Jabba (compared with the ROTJ Jabba), Luke's scream in ESB, Vader's shuttle scene--I wondered what the heck that was in there, it breaks up the flow, Jedi Rocks sequence is way too long, there might be something else but I can't remember. I loved the end celebration song though. :)

    If I could edit the movies myself those are the changes I would have made. But I can't and there hasn't anything I said that someone else hadn't said.

    Except the rancor matt lines. God were they awful.

    And don't get me started to the "I am Jedi" line added in AOTC. [face_plain]

  15. Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2001
    star 6
    LFL has every possible film restoration technology at their disposal so I'm sure they could salvage any scene that they wanted to.

    You would think. I've seen movies older than SW that had some pretty amazing restoration done.
  16. Otter Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 16, 2001
    star 4
    I realise I should probably read all the previous posts before putting something in that has already been said, but I'm tired and I don't want to. :p

    I just have to chime in on this one. I prefer the unaltered versions, because that is the Star Wars I grew up with. The Spec Eds were a fun little diversion, but when I want to watch the movies I reach for the set I bought in high school in 1990.

    But I think if you polled people, more would prefer the Spec Eds, at least that's what it looks like to me. Funny how we both have different perceptions reading the same posts, hey Radiohead?
  17. guittarjedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 4
    I disagree Otter, I think if we ran a poll it would be about 50/50 right down the middle or possibly 60/40 in favor of the REAL versions. Unfortunateley we can't do a poll to find out because they've been done away with in most forums.
  18. Blast Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2002
    star 3
    The reason I like the O-OT better then the SE is because the O-OT is what I grew up with until 1997.It has that feeling that nothing else has.

    While I dont HATE the SE's,I feel they cannot capture the same feeling,it has a totally diffrent feeling for me.A feeling that they are part of something much bigger.

    To end this,I view the O-OT as a trilogy and the SE as part of a saga.When I show my children the SW saga in chrono. order I will show them the SE and when I want to show them the best trilogy ever I will show them the O-OT.
  19. Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2001
    star 6
    Well, that's a different way of looking at it I hadn't thought of, Blast.
  20. Radiohead Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 2002
    star 4
    But I think if you polled people, more would prefer the Spec Eds, at least that's what it looks like to me. Funny how we both have different perceptions reading the same posts, hey Radiohead?

    Perhaps the pro-Originals are more outspoken than the pro-SEs. For that poll, I would still give the edge to the pro-Originals in terms of numbers.
  21. CoolyFett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2003
    star 4
    i dont really dont understand what the big problem with the S.E. I have never seen the old vesion, but if the effects are worst than the S.E. why would anyone want to watch them this is a digital world we a living in I just got into starwars when ep1 came out. and I love the movies hey i love this website! but is this a beef between young & old? it seems so I read my opinions on this matter. and I say the newer the better. i woul rather have a cd player than a cassatte player and i would also chose a DVD over a VHS its just better I hope GL never bring the old crap out again. and continues to make the old stuff BETTER!! why would you want UnFINISHED work? could you imagine a car with no doors on it? it might still drive but it still aint finished. Every body is craving the OT triligy on DVD so im I but, GL is gonna do he needs to make it as close to the PT trilogy as posible. in 100 years we will all be and the movies will still be here. do you think that generation will see the differcnce in ep1 or ep4 or ep2 NOPE!! it all gonna look the same to them. Must movies will 3D by then so what is going to be the argument then that Digital is better than 3D? you got to be kidding!! this is not an opinion its a fact Technology will continue to grow and get better. GL is just playing catch up that all it not for $$$$$ its Suppose to seen from begging though end as 12,13 or 14 hour movie. meaning it should match up as close a possible.
  22. CoolyFett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2003
    star 4
    I somewhat agree with Blast.
  23. Master_Sidious Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 20, 2003
    star 1
    Cooly

    Ah heck, while we are at it, just reshoot the entire OT.

    But wait, once that is done in 2013, TPM will look outdated, so that will have to be redone. But wait, once that is done in 2015, AOTC will look outdated, so that will have to be redone. But wait, once that is done in 2015, Episode III will look outdated, so that will have to be redone. By then the reshot OT will have to be rereshot. Anyone else see the absurdity of this train of thought.


    Also, change King Kong and Jaws to be CG. While we are at it, we must also go back and fix the first (classic) Terminator now that #2 is out and #3 is coming. Can't have those bad effects in case I want to watch all three in a row. Also, blah, blah, blah


  24. guittarjedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 4
    It's just like Spielberg himself said "If Jaws would have been made today the shark would have been CGI and we would have shown alot more of it but it would NOT have been a better film".
  25. Vonn Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2000
    star 4
    Sorry, guitarjedi, there were no CG ships in the ESB end scene.

    By the way, there more changed lines than just Luke's swamp scene. Notice how Han now says, "...this will keep you warm until I get the shelter up..." instead of "...this will keep you warm until I get the shelter built."

    Or how Han says, "It's alright. I can see a lot better" instead of "It's alright. Trust me."

    I personally like the "I can see a lot better" line more because it is funnier considering Lando just said he was blind. If you are blind, how can you see a lot better? (classic funniness).

    As for the "close the blast doors" line, there is actually a story behind that. When Star Wars first came out, they were still fine tuning the sound track for different theaters (some theaters using optical tracks while other used 70mm 6-track). Some of the early sound track mixes were incomplete, while as some of the later mixes were missing sounds. For example, if you recall, a mixture of early video releases of Star Wars: ANH did NOT have Threepio's lines describing the mission to deactivate the tractor beam on the death star.

    The Definitive Laserdisc edition and then the Special Editions allowed Ben and George to include the elements that were supposedly "lost" or missed placed before they could have been included in previous releases.

    As for Leia's blaster soundingly like a pistol in the shaft where she and Luke swing across the chasm, that sound has ALWAYS been like that. It is just more pronounced now that Ben had a chance to fine tune the mix.
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