Why the disdain for the Special Editions?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Radiohead, Jan 25, 2003.

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  1. JohnWilliams00 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 29, 2002
    star 4
    Some of you people have no respect or understanding for film preservation.

    "Tell Ted Turner to get his damn crayolas away from my movie." -- Orson Welles, director of Citizen Kane, on the issue of colorization of older films.
  2. JohnWilliams00 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 29, 2002
    star 4
    It's just like Spielberg himself said "If Jaws would have been made today the shark would have been CGI and we would have shown alot more of it but it would NOT have been a better film".

    I think that's avery good quote by Spielberg and very true. The year 2002 is an era of cinema where we've seen more special effects than any other film era since....ever. But we aren't necessarily seeing better movies. A lot of the movies have become so vapid and unoriginal that I swear in 20 years they will be spoofing our movies of today.

    I hope the explosion of this CGI/digital technology (which is a blessing and a curse) will die down and some filmmakers will use it wisely, sparingly, instead of going crazy like some other filmmakers.

    M. Night, director of Signs, pledges that his films will use CG only when absolutely necessary. If not, he always opts for practical, traditional methods, and many crew members admire his stance on that. Because he believes CGI and special effects come second to a strong thoughtful story and great acting, the backbone of any movie. I think there's some filmmakers today that could learn a lesson or two from that. ;)

  3. Blast Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2002
    star 3
    JohnWilliams00,You bring up great points which I agree with.

    Even though I feel that the SE's are better for the saga,I still feel that the O-OT is a better trilogy.The O-OT did not have as much useless things as the SE does.The O-OT simply tells what it needs to tell,no need for fancy special effects(even though they were fancy back in that day).I feel that the O-OT is the definitive versions of the trilogy while the SE are the alternatives.

    So those are my ramblings,sorry if they didnt make sense :p
  4. guittarjedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 4
    Vonn, the end of ESB HAS been redone with CGI. Does anybody out there have screen caps of the SE ESB ending and original ESB ending so we can do a side by side comparison and settle this?
  5. CoolyFett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2003
    star 4
    master sidious you are crazy lol lol lol lol
    look man I didnt mean reshout the whole movie I love the movies i can see any else being luke besides mark h. or any else being Lando beside billy dee and so on & so on but whats wrong with improvements?
  6. CoolyFett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2003
    star 4
    there is nothing wrong with old school classics like jaws and e.t. but those movie cant touch starwars at all. I mean everybody on this web site has to love starwars not just like it to participate in these discusions. but with all these new starwars flicks dropping. you want them to be as close as possible. I appreciate what GL has done and will do when the saga is complete. im not worried I know when the full set comes out (all 6 flicks together)the new generation is gonna love it. the old timers will just have to adjust. lol lol
  7. Master_Sidious Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 20, 2003
    star 1
    master sidious you are crazy lol lol lol lol
    look man I didnt mean reshout the whole movie I love the movies i can see any else being luke besides mark h. or any else being Lando beside billy dee and so on & so on but whats wrong with improvements?

    there is nothing wrong with old school classics like jaws and e.t. but those movie cant touch starwars at all. I mean everybody on this web site has to love starwars not just like it to participate in these discusions. but with all these new starwars flicks dropping. you want them to be as close as possible. I appreciate what GL has done and will do when the saga is complete. im not worried I know when the full set comes out (all 6 flicks together)the new generation is gonna love it. the old timers will just have to adjust. lol lol


    Since when was loving Star Wars one of the conditions to be present on these boards? Personally I do love Star Wars, but from the way some people rant and rave on these boards, you would swear they hated the movies.

    I would argue your point that an old school movie like Jaws can't touch SW. I absolutely love Jaws for all the psychology, pacing, tension, etc... I also love SW. Being on this board doesn't mean that my favorite 5 films are the 5 SW films (in whichever order you rank them). I love SW and have opinions on them, that is why I am here.

    My point was that at what stage is it complete in your eyes. Do we go back every 10 years and retouch up every movie in existence because we can? A very good point was a few posts back, if it doesn't make the movie better, then why do it? I mean as long as we can make constantly improve CG to make it look better and more realistic, when do you stop?

    And by the way, some people do consider the original ANH an old school classic that doesn't need to be touched.
  8. Daughter_Of_TheForce Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 1, 2001
    star 4
    And by the way, some people do consider the original ANH an old school classic that doesn't need to be touched.

    Amen, brother.

    Is it me, or is there just is very little respect for history these days? :(
  9. CoolyFett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2003
    star 4
    My point was that at what stage is it complete in your eyes. Do we go back every 10 years and retouch up every movie in existence because we can? A very good point was a few posts back, if it doesn't make the movie better, then why do it? I mean as long as we can make constantly improve CG to make it look better and more realistic, when do you stop?

    And by the way, some people do consider the original ANH an old school classic that doesn't need to be touched.

    Master sidious: Saga or the (circle) is complete when all six movies are finished and look the same (or real close) the worst looking film should be brought closer to the best looking film. whether its 6,5,4,3,2,1 when the movies are finish and the film look is similar thats when you stop touching up. for example if ep 4 & 5 were black & white flicks and ep6 was in color & ep1 was in color the movie(s)would not be finished because Ep4 & ep5 dont look like ep1 & ep6. If the movies are ment to be seen as indivdually then I would agree not to beef it up. But they are not they are ment to be seen as One big movie. Master sidious I know every movie in the business isnt worthy of praise or retouching. but GL doesnt have that far to go to finish this One movie that started in 76 and completes in 05.
  10. Radiohead Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 2002
    star 4
    I like the SE's fine and everything, but I really think you're going over the line with the "the worst-looking movie should look like the best-looking movie" thing. I personally don't approve this philosophy and, fortunately, I don't think George Lucas would either. GL went back to his old movies beacues he didn't believe it represented his original vision, NOT because he thought it should necessarily compare to the prequel trilogy.
  11. Lanky Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2002
    star 4
    And by the way, some people do consider the original ANH an old school classic that doesn't need to be touched.

    Amen, brother.

    Is it me, or is there just is very little respect for history these days?


    It's not so much disrespect to history, but the fact that ANH as it was in 77 was not the film it was intended to be. People want to see it how it was intended, and it does mesh a little better with the PT (very loosely, FX touch-ups don't really do much in that department).

    And anyway, the original untouched ANH will always have a special place among my movie memories, I mean it's the first SW I saw :) (orange blobs and all). I prefer the SE's though because it's closer to how it was envisioned originally. To each their own though :) .


    On the whole ESB CG'ed ending, why doesn't someone just fastforward to the end of the film and watch it in both versions?
  12. Jeff 42 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 1998
    star 5
    "It's not so much disrespect to history, but the fact that ANH as it was in 77 was not the film it was intended to be. People want to see it how it was intended, and it does mesh a little better with the PT (very loosely, FX touch-ups don't really do much in that department)."

    No, it doesn't. The new Jabba and Greedo scenes look worse than anything in the original version of the movie. ANH:SE Jabba looks terrible compared to any CG prequel character. What would have actually helped would have been fixing the lightsabers in the Obi-Wan/Vader duel, but apparently it was deemed that adding cheesy CG extravaganzas was more important than that extremely simple touch-up.
  13. Lanky Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2002
    star 4
    That's why I said "very loosely" :p
  14. ShaakRider Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2002
    star 2
    but the fact that ANH as it was in 77 was not the film it was intended to be.

    Is it a fact???? [face_shocked]
    Or is the fact, that Lucas' intention changed since '77?
    Who knows...but for me the 2nd one seems to be more plausible.

    edit: If SW in '77 was so far below his vision, why did he release it?
  15. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    Shaakrider: GL always wanted the Jabba scene in ANH, but they couldn´t do it back then. Since it was actually filmed in 1976, I find this very believable.
    You believe what you want to believe.
  16. ShaakRider Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2002
    star 2
    OK, this is one case I can accept (though that scene is horrible, so I'm glad he couldn't do it in '77). But what about Luke screaming, Vader's "alert my star destroyer" etc?
    But whatever his original vision was, he released the films and since then they exist on their own right, as a complete piece of art and a part of history. I've no problem with Lucas making changes, as long as he doesn't say the OE was incomplete, SW was always meant to be what we see in SE, etc, doesn't try to pretend th OE never existed.
  17. Master Salty Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 1999
    star 6
    Unfortunately it seems that Lucas doesn't consider the original OT to exist anymore.
  18. Jeff 42 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 1998
    star 5
    "GL always wanted the Jabba scene in ANH, but they couldn´t do it back then. Since it was actually filmed in 1976, I find this very believable."

    If he could have done it back then, would it have ended up being so redundant with the Greedo scene? I doubt it.
  19. Master_Sidious Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 20, 2003
    star 1
    GL had the technology to have Greedo shoot first in 1977, but he didn't. He also had the technology to use different dialogue in both the DV-Shuttle scene, and the R2D2/Luke Dagobah scene and he didn't.

    If some people are claiming the changes are being made because the original films were not what GL intended, these two points seem to contradict that thinking.
  20. CoolyFett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2003
    star 4
    Radiohead I don't think you understand. GL vision is making the movies the way he wanted to make them. Now that he has the tech to finish the job, why should't he.
  21. CoolyFett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2003
    star 4
    GL went back to his old movies beacues he didn't believe it represented his original vision, NOT because he thought it should necessarily compare to the prequel trilogy.
    -----signature-----


    It has been said Too Many Times that it is ONE movie in six chapters. why should one chapter look different from the other. I can't wait til the 3D version of the One movie Starwars comes out. (at least I hope it does while I'm alive.
  22. CoolyFett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2003
    star 4
    Thank you Lanky You said what I have been trying to say "people want to see it how it was INTENDED.
  23. CoolyFett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2003
    star 4
    Unfortunately it seems that Lucas doesn't consider the original OT to exist anymore.

    Hey salty why is that so Unfortunate?
  24. Blast Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2002
    star 3
    >Unfortunately it seems that Lucas doesn't consider the original OT to exist anymore.

    Hey salty why is that so Unfortunate?<

    Even though I am not salty I will answer this.It is unfortunate because some of us enjoy the O-OT better(including me).Some people feel that the O-OT is better films then the SE or that they can simply tell the story without the uneened CGI or scenes.Some people even consider them as art.Also the O-OT has a special feeling to some people because they are the ones they grew up with.
  25. Lanky Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2002
    star 4
    In my last post I was talking primarily about ANH.
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