Why the Double Standard?

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by rpeugh, Dec 17, 2003.

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  1. rpeugh Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2002
    star 4
    Why is it that when the prequels get criticised for something, LOTR and the Matrix are immune to the criticism of effects and actually get complimented for it? Why is it that the Matrix doesnt get criticised for the bullet time effect and the 360 degree shift of the camera during fights? Why doesnt LOTR get criticised for its endless seeping camera shots and its constant zooming in and out, not to mention the constant slow motion? These are EFFECTS. And a lot of people would argue the story could be just as effective if not more effective without them. George Lucas has created magnificent cgi enviornments wiht the prequels. If he were truly more intersted in effects, you would be seeing long, sweeping shots of Tiopoca city in Kamino. Instead, Lucas sticks to the documentary style and shows maybe 2 or 3 seconds of the city, despite the long hard work that went into creating it. Im sorry, but I dont consider that to be more interested in effects. You also would have had 360 degree shifts during the saber fights. I wonder if there are some casual fans who would have actually prefered this. In the prequels George creates these enviornemnts to make powerful and poignant imagery, which he relys on to tell the story. Just about every effect in the prequels serves the story.

    And I know Im going to get flamed for this, but I realy dont understand the fascination with Gollum. I really dont see how he is much better than ANH Jabba (yes, thats right, 1997 SE Jabba the Hut from ANH). And he doesnt even touch AOTC Yoda nor Jar Jar. But Yoda and Jar Jar met with much greater disapproval. I wonder if them putting Andy Serkis in that suit and trying to dress him with the digital imagery actually hindered Gollum's realism. He has that same visual sloppiness that ANH Jabba had, and you get that same 2D sensation that Jabba gave. Dont get me wrong, I thought that WETA did a good job overall, espeacially when you consider that this is their first project. But ILM is still the king.
  2. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
    I think the answer is quite simple. The OT, or at least ANH, was the first of its kind and existed in a time where media did not flow so freely as it does now.
  3. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    The latest Matrix did recieve soem criticism for it. And it was well-deserved too.
  4. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
    Good point. We have such simple and quick access to anyone and everyone's opinions, and you know what an opinion is like and who has them.
  5. anidanami124 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2002
    star 6
    We have such simple and quick access to anyone and everyone's opinions, and you know what an opinion is like and who has them.

    True and the thing about the media. One day the media is saying Star Wars is the best, then The Matrix, then Lord of the Rings.

    Just like what you like. Don't worry about what the media says you should like. If they say you should like the band Kron would you listen?

    Sure I like Lord of the Ring's. But I like it because it's what Final Fantasy should have been but was not. So it is my Final Fantasy movie. :) But The Star Wars Saga will always come first for me. :D

    Edit: So to DarthSapient you listen to. ;)
  6. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
    And all it takes is a few people to unnecessarily be influenced by a negative review by an essential unknown of a critic.
  7. rpeugh Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2002
    star 4
    >>>>>>>>>The latest Matrix did recieve soem criticism for it. And it was well-deserved too<<<<<<<<<<<<<

    True, but I really didnt see those criticisms until the 3rd movie when things werent as hip.
  8. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
    But there are millions who saw the third Matrix as hip. It all goes back to blocking out any opinions on a film other than your own.
  9. rpeugh Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2002
    star 4
    What you say is true, but the criticisms against the effects of the Matrix dont come anywhere close to the criticisms of the prequels and its effects.
  10. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
    It really depends on what you read. The equivalent top-notch movie messageboard site for The Matrix echoes the same things we see here regarding the PT.
  11. anidanami124 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2002
    star 6
    rpeugh like I and even DarthSapient have said don't worry about the reviews. That's just what that person thinks. I don't jugde a film until I see it. Though there are a few that I have jugde before I saw them and it was a good jugdement call.

    But must of the time I don't really care what a review has to say.

    I will give you a good example FF 8 is said to be the best. Well I like it but it's not the best FF game. I feel FF 9 is far better. Even though some reviews say different. But I don't really care. ;)
  12. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
    <img src=http://www1.theforce.net/jc/icons/anewhope/luke_anh_fp.gif>

    I care. :(
  13. anidanami124 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2002
    star 6
    Well ok you do care. Me I don't care. ;)

    Edit: I would put a pic of Vader there and say young one...but I'm younger then you a lot younger.
  14. gezvader28 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2003
    star 4
    ? Why is it that the Matrix doesnt get criticised for the bullet time effect and the 360 degree shift of the camera during fights?

    Reloaded did get criticised for using bullet-time too much.

    As for LOTR - Jackson obviously spent a LOT of time on the characters and the acting which Lucas didn't, that's why I think Lucas gets criticised for concentrating on FX too much.

    And I know Im going to get flamed for this

    If you get flamed tell a Mod, that's what they're there for.

    but I realy dont understand the fascination with Gollum. I really dont see how he is much better than ANH Jabba (yes, thats right, 1997 SE Jabba the Hut from ANH). And he doesnt even touch AOTC Yoda nor Jar Jar. But Yoda and Jar Jar met with much greater disapproval

    Gollum is a brilliant character, not just a great CGI demo. It's clear they worked hard on the performance, the schizophrenic nature is fascinating and he encapsulates the horror of the adiction which is the Ring. Jabba '97 looked crap. JJB is loathed not because it's CGI but because of it's character. CG Yoda wasn't as good as ESB puppet and also many fans felt that it was far too gimicky to have him hopping about like a frog on speed.

    And I've seen people slag off some of WETA's FX, particularly the treebeard scenes.

    There isn't a double standard.

    g
  15. anidanami124 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2002
    star 6
    CG Yoda wasn't as good as ESB puppet and also many fans felt that it was far too gimicky to have him hopping about like a frog on speed.

    That's a big matter of opinion there. Because there were fans that did like the CG Yoda and the duel.
  16. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
    Well, I thought Reloaded was one of the best follow-up sequels for any film I've seen. I consider it better and much more of a thinking movie than ESB ever was.
  17. rpeugh Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2002
    star 4
    Yeah I find it unfortunate that people's attachment to the puppet kept them from appreciating the cgi version in AOTC.
  18. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
    I thought the AotC version was better than any of the saga.
  19. anidanami124 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2002
    star 6
    Yeah I also liked the AOTC Yoda.

    Funny but it seems that only three people are really posting in here. Other then Gev's one post.
  20. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
    That's becuase the forum's slowing down and reaching its long-term equilibrium of activity.
  21. anidanami124 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2002
    star 6
    That's becuase the forum's slowing down and reaching its long-term equilibrium of activity.

    Long term equilibrim of activity. ?[face_plain]

    I don't get that part. Do you mean it is slowing down like the TPM forum and ever one is know post in ether Ep3NSA and Ep3SA?
  22. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
    I mean that eventually, the movie forums slow down. The Classic Trilogy Forum is active, but not like the 3SA. This forum was active in its heyday, upon release, and when the DVD came out. But not anymore.
  23. DarthMaul13 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 1998
    star 4
    Some of the shots of Yoda in AOTC looked way too cartoony while other shots were good. I think for the distant shots they should have used CGI while for the close-ups they should have used a puppet. ESB Yoda actually looked more real and that was 20 years ago when they made ESB.

    Gollum is by far the best CGI creation yet. The personality, the interaction with the actors and the realisim of the skin and texture put it in a league above the rest.
  24. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
    And it's these differing opinions that makes this place great and what it is today. :)
  25. DarthMaul13 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 1998
    star 4
    "I mean that eventually, the movie forums slow down. The Classic Trilogy Forum is active, but not like the 3SA. This forum was active in its heyday, upon release, and when the DVD came out. But not anymore."

    We should combine the forums of AOTC and TPM together. 3NS is nearly dead.
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