Speculation Why the NJO and Legacy Era are toast.

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by stellarmagic01, Nov 5, 2012.

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Do you think the NJO and Legacy are going to Survive Episode VII?

Yes 59 vote(s) 27.6%
No 154 vote(s) 72.0%
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  1. Darth_Xeres Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 3, 2010
    star 2
    My point was that even when Lucas specified that an era was to be left alone by the EU, possible movies/EU contradictions slipped in. The post-Endor timeline has most definitely not been left alone by the EU, and some events/characters in particular affect the entire rest of that era, to the point that changing/deleting them would topple virtually all the entire post-Endor EU's continuity. What will you do should Episode 7 arrive and Han and Leia have two children who are nothing like Jacen, Jaina, or Anakin in names, looks or personalities, and Luke Skywalker is a childless man who never married and never seems to have met a woman resembling Mara Jade in any way?
  2. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    Retcon - A WIZARD DID IT
  3. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    Fairly minor glitches (apart from TCW, which even seems to contradict the PT in places) - and may have been founded on background information from LFL that was later changed - all solved by the Retcon process.

    There was never any stipulation that it should be left alone - in fact there seems to have been some positive encouragement for the expansion to take place. Even if GL was not directly involved (and there sem to have some points at which he was - no Sith for the NJO enemies, Luke has to live, Anakin Solo to die instead of Jacen, etc.) senior staff at LFL were!

    The Skywalker name is a brand all by itself, I doubt that (having decided on a sequel trilogy, and the possibility of further movies) that anyone would insist that Luke's family line and name was to die out. There are more books in the EU pipeline, so we don't know where they will end up; but we do know that (barring some really clever, or devious, retcon - and at least one group in the EU has developed Infiltrator Clones) Mara Jade and Jacen Solo are as dead as Anakin Solo.
  4. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    Did Lucas say Luke is celibate or simply not married? These are not the same things. According to Lucas, even the old Jedi were not celibate.

    Also, "not married" might have referred to the time period right after ROTJ and not 35 years later.

    Finally, in the 1980s Lucas said Luke was going to have a love interest in the sequel trilogy. We know he's changed his mind before ;)
  5. swarm87 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2012
    please post a link to that so we can put this useless debate to rest already

    nevermind i found it http://starwarsblog.starwars.com/index.php/2012/10/30/on-the-brink-of-the-future/ 9th paragraph "As George Lucas began preparing his treatments for future films, I’d get random requests for research from his office, and helped prepare documents, primers and writer guides for the next generation of Star Wars filmmakers, whoever they may be. "

    still pretty vague but i dont see them trashing the EU is GL himself requested such information for the pre-pre-production process

    and toys of dead characters still fly off the shelves(they still buy obi-wan, yoda, darth vader, qui-gon, mace windu, etc) no problem selling chewie toys even though hes dead; heck they've been making EU toys for over 10 years
    Last edited by swarm87, Nov 13, 2012
  6. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    As much as I would love to see a massive cast with the Big 3, Jacen Anakin Jaina Ben Mara, ect. It almost seems as though they have brought it down to Jaina and Ben as one kid for each family. I would rather have new characters join the cast with a small group of Skywalker Solo decendants as the main cast as opposed to have a Star Wars movie burdened with 4 protagonists we have to follow in different directions.
  7. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    How bluemilk put is is a little......misleading. Hidalgos said he would be on-call for the writers incase they wanted to know anything. Arndt might simply be asking about Clone War Episodes or checking to see if names have been used already etc...

    As George Lucas began preparing his treatments for future films, I’d get random requests for research from his office, and helped prepare documents, primers and writer guides for the next generation of Star Wars filmmakers, whoever they may be.

    http://starwarsblog.starwars.com/index.php/2012/10/30/on-the-brink-of-the-future/

    Unless/until we know what Hidalgos was called on to research and how much, its very misleading to say he was answering questions regarding continuity and therefore the majority of the EU will be included.
    The-Eternal-Hero likes this.
  8. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    It defintiely needs to be an original story. Jedi will be allowed to have kids in Sequel Trilogy. Disney will want characters to say Solo or Skywalker on the box and the EU has explained why the New Order allows marriage. But lets go practical, if I am a force user, married with kids and a good person and I meet Luke. Luke sees I am a good person. Why wouldnt Luke train me as he did Corran Kyle and Kam? After all the Jedi order is gone, he needs all the help he can get. And lets say that my wife gets kidnapped by pirates? Rather than pulling an ANakin SKywalker and being all secretive from the Jedi, you just go to the council and say, "Hey, uh, my wife is captured. I am going to go rescue her? Any of you mind helping?" IE. I, Jedi plot. Until the prequel trilogy no one was strong on the unmarried Jedi. It is easy to undo. Granted Lucas originally wanted Luke to be celebate but having a son named Ben is poetic is it not?
  9. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    Whether or not they keep the EU I will see the movies and love them. I may have complaints but I fell in love with Star Wars not a single character or movie.
    If they do not bring back Chewbacca to keep the EU, can you say the same?
  10. Darth_Xeres Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 3, 2010
    star 2
    I now realize that I didn't express myself clearly enough, so I apologize for that. To clarify, my point is that once the PT arrived, potential contradictions began to appear even with what little EU material there was concerning that era. So IMO it will be an order of magnitude worse when episode 7 arrives in theaters and is set in an era for which there's whole reams of EU material.

    I fail to see how this counters my assertion that the post-Endor EU as we know it is toast if Han and Leia have children that are nothing like Jacen, Jaina and/or Anakin, with Luke being a childless and unmarried single man (as Lucas apprently envisioned him before). In fact, I'll throw in another hypothetical wrench: what if Luke, unmarried or not, widower or not, does have a single child... only she's a young woman instead of a young man when episode 7 begins? There goes EU continuity from the moment Ben was born.
  11. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    First, drop all the EU from your argument. It has no baring (as far as we know)

    Second, who says Luke will train adults? Maybe Luke will search for children and impose the not marriage rule because he sees what happened to his father. Remember a lot of that Jedi getting marrid stuff was written long before AotC. If the post RotJ EU was published post PT, I bet Luke Jedi order would appear much different. At the start of Heir to the Empire (Its been a while) isn't there a part were Luke is questioning what a Jedi order would even look like? That was before we knew there was temple on Coursant and most fans thought Yoda always lived in Degobah and always trained Jedi there, why wouldn't he go to the Temple and start learning about hte Jedi?
  12. The-Eternal-Hero Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    I kinda expect to see Luke training Jedi in the temple. 30 years is plenty of time to get it up and running again. And with the mid chlorians aspect, he could use the archives to track down families that are strong in the Force, or the ones that escaped Sidious, anyway.

    To me the most natural place to begin would be after a period of relative peace, with the Republic back in running order, and the Jedi Knights rising again, on the cusp of a new threat that has nothing to do with the Empire and nothing to do with the EU. Leia is still active in the Senate, Han & Lando running their own starship refurbishing outfit or something, Luke is training new Jedi. The story would be organically tied to the main characters so they have no choice about getting involved, it's a given, and you just set the whole trilogy up from there.

    I just don't want to see any contrived set-ups, any elaborate plot constructions, or anyone "getting he band back together". These are the constant cliches of the long-delayed sequel or reboot movie. Just follow logically from where the story left off and start something new that is emotionally involving and exciting. No one really cares about what happened in between, they want to find out "what happened next".
  13. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    You have a point. I dont expect them to follow the EU. But they can do as they did with the PT, adopt what they like, Coruscant was first titled that in the EU, from Imperial Center. So what happens when they reference Ben or Corran Horn? Will you be mad? I won't be mad if they don't. It seems clear Mark Hamill can't be the primary protagonist. Who do you propose to take the mantle?
  14. Moorplant Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 2004
    See this is where "EU as a special single continuity" basically looses me. I understand that a lot of fans love it as such, but IMHO If so much as has to be retconned or use "levels of canon" so much that many of those retcons boil down to "a Wizard Did It" then personally I see no more single continuity than Doctor Who or any other modern tie in books/radio serials/comics are. For the life of me I don't know why really big problems such "Splinter of the Mind's Eye" and other similar issues aren't just regarded as infinities, rather than papered over with the twistiested, flimsiest retcons.

    Right now my persnal guess is they'll keep some but jettison anything they want to do differently. I would not put it past LFL to try and retcon it altogether anyway, even if 60% of the old stuff is gone.

    Or if Jacen/Jaina have those names but are not twins or have very different personalities. Slapping names on but changing characterisations is going to cause almost as much uproar as if we get a hyperthetical Skywalker daughter.
    Last edited by Moorplant, Nov 13, 2012
  15. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    I wouldn't be made, I just don't see it happening. I think Lucas has created characters to take the mantle and Arndt is writing about them
  16. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Never mind that Luke doesn't know how Anakin fell. Luke will take whomever he can find. kid, adult, married, not married whatever. He doesn't have the choice to be picky or not.
  17. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    The Temple, if you recall, was set on fire. I can't see Palpatine/Vader leaving any 'handy hints for training Jedi' lying around either; so what information survived the fire was probably confiscated/destroyed. One can do that without destroying the building itself.
  18. cronedoggy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 1
    I think this is due in some part to many of us loving the eu, but mostly because there isn't anything else episode 7 related to talk about. Once casting, plot summary, trailer etc come out, there will be more to discuss.
    Force Smuggler likes this.
  19. cronedoggy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 1
    Prolly nothing in the grand scheme of things. I'd use the death of the EU as an out and stop buying merchandise. I'm sure I'm not the only one, but I bet we are in the minority. Even many kid fans know Mara Jade. At CVI Ashley Eckstein designed and was selling Mara shirts. I think a lot of people know of Luke's wife.
  20. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    Its seen in a screen shot in RotJ (someone posted it on here not long ago). After that fire, Obi-wan and Yoda go to the temple (so its still there) and leave a message to warn other JEdi off (so the computers were still clearly working). WHo is to say they got it all?
  21. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    Until there is a good related to the new movies that you hear is good........

    Yes fans know who mara Jade is, but the majority of the movie goingpublic don't.
  22. Cantina Bassist Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2012
    star 2
    Maybe you'll like the "new" universe better than the EU.
    ThatWanFromStewjon likes this.
  23. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    Did anyone know that the Master Apprentice relationship went, Yoda taught Dooku, who taught Qui Gon, who in turn taught Obi Wan, who taught Anakin and then his son Luke? No but people picked it up.
    With the start of Ep 7. figuring out who Mara is would be no different than figuring out who a random character is. Lets not forget Mara is either dead in EU but if they do use her, chances are she would be in the back ground.
  24. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    [....]

    ** Yoda voice ** "Always with you it cannot be done".

    Look at it this way:- In addition to the new films, they want to sell books. The hard-core readership is accustomed to their EU characters and I doubt that they would readily switch to something completely unrecognisable. The hard-core readership (as with everyone) has a limted amount of disposable income to fork out on books/entertainment. Either they would fail to buy ST-continuity titles or they would bombard whatever publisher it will be with demands for books continuing their preferred characters/timeline.

    The majority of the movie audience knows nothing of the books etc. so would probably be more accepting of an EU influence in the movies - providing they are well-made, well scripted (yes, I know that it can be rare in SW), and exciting.

    It appears to me that there is scope.

    Additionally, I suspect that using characters that already have some characterisation and backstory behind them would be easier and quicker to mold a new story around than creating characters/characterisations/backstories that have to be made up from scratch.

    Doing that may also encourage book sales, as people previously unfamiliar with the characters buy books to read about the backstory to their favourite character(s) and catch up with what has happened in the SW Universe since RotJ.
    Last edited by Tim Battershell, Nov 13, 2012
  25. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    but introducing a main character and having that much story involving your main character is bad story telling. It would be like starting Ironman with Tony already hurt, with the glowy thing in his chest and just saying "oh I was in an explosion once and this keeps the metal pieces out of my heart". It gets the info across but its not good or engaging story telling.
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