Speculation Why the NJO and Legacy Era are toast.

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by stellarmagic01, Nov 5, 2012.

?

Do you think the NJO and Legacy are going to Survive Episode VII?

Yes 59 vote(s) 27.6%
No 154 vote(s) 72.0%
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. stellarmagic01 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 4
    Not sure... anyone got a sarcasm detector?

    I prefer character driven pieces, thank you. Survivor's Quest was probably one of the best in terms of showing a different part of the universe without becoming bogged down with 'depth' and details. In fact that and I think Survivor's Quest and I, Jedi are probably some of the best character pieces in the EU and show what can be done by focusing on a small slice of the universe. If you study the craft of writing Survivor's Quest is really interesting when you look at POV choices... most of it is from Mara's perspective.
  2. Tim Battershell Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    They'd finished with the Empire - and got a peace treaty out of it.

    GL himself seems to have dictated 'no Sith' because the PT was about to come out -- so what's left that needs and stretches aan even bigger Jedi Order (with the YJKs coming onstream)?
  3. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    Don't get me wrong, I love depth and detail. My favorite novels are the I Jedi and Dark Tide novels. I am encouraged that NJO had books where Luke and the main families wouldnt even appear in, allowing other characters to lead a novel. Hence the brilliance of it
  4. Tim Battershell Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    What a writer, that man T. Zahn! One throwaway line, and he gets two whole books and a plot point for a third out of it! I really enjoyed all of them, too!
  5. ThatWanFromStewjon Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2012
    star 4

    There was none I assure you.

    One of the things I liked about the EU was that it had the scope to go into detail about many things the movies couldn't like hyperspace travel, alien cultures, etc.

    I thought it was one of the points of the EU.
    thesevegetables likes this.
  6. ThatWanFromStewjon Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2012
    star 4
    Yes, but wasn't a lot of the complaints about the NJO that it wasn't a familiar Imperial type threat?

    And it has been a long time since I read the NJO and the series tend to get mixed up in my head, but wasn't it revealed that Sith were pulling the Vong's strings - Or am I completely mixed up?
  7. ThatWanFromStewjon Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2012
    star 4
    I just realized that I have never read I, Jedi :eek:
  8. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    Have to read it. Some of it is so mundane, but it makes you feel like you are actually there when he goes for a run or wants some tap caf
  9. stellarmagic01 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 4
    Read it, it saves the Jedi Academy Trilogy from being completely terrible. Corran Horn tells those events from his perspective and then goes on a side quest of his own to find his missing wife. I thought it was a great example of how the EU could have expanded in the Post-RoTJ environment without the endless mass of crises that was Del Rey's time as publisher.

    I think that it wasn't imperials was only part of the reason people weren't that fond of the NJO... It was too alien, too big, and down right apocalyptic.
    thesevegetables likes this.
  10. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    NJO was far better than FotJ. LotF was Ok. but a galactic war every decade is a bit unrealistic
    ThatWanFromStewjon likes this.
  11. Tim Battershell Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    Never really heard that, but then I wasn't on a board like this at the time.

    Don't think so - they diid come across a couple of Dark characters from the Shadow Academy in SBS, but otherwise no Sith at all - Spoiler for Crosscurrent/Riptide those two were actually members of the One Sith, tasked with escorting Lumiya to a meeting with Krayt? - only they got picked up by the Vong (Lumiya escaped).
  12. swarm87 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2012
    i think a lot of the hatred for the NJO was just because of when it was released; the books where things started getting very bad, star by star came out around the same time as 9/11; granted that it was almost half way through at that point, readers may have drawn parallels, most likely subcounciously, between the yuuzhan vong and the perceptions(media/news created) of the islamic zealots/rouges that wanted to annihilate the western world. at that point, IMO, star wars might had become too real for some people to deal with.
    ThatWanFromStewjon likes this.
  13. thesevegetables Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2012
    star 4
    That's not why I don't like the NJO. I don't because its ineffective. The old Jedi and old Republic were powerful and respected. The NJO is walked over by everybody and they can't do anything about it - instead they turn out more weaklings who let family issues get in their way. Obviously the NJO isn't working out well - can't hold a government in power, stands by as the Imperials annoy them because they aren't powerful enough to do anything, etc.
  14. The-Eternal-Hero Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    I just don't understand why people are choosing to focus on the negative. The series is going to get a refresh. Whether it stands, gets retconned, or gets remade, it wouldn't be the first time. The EU we know and (sometimes love) was built on the ashes of other EU's. I was (and still am) disappointed by GL's decision to end the Marvel run at the beginning of what was meant to be a year-long epic, and I still want to know "what happened next", but at the start, the "new" continuation was so good (Thrawn, Dark Empire, TOTJ) I was willing to roll with it. And now I love them both equally even though they don't connect to form a single narrative.

    To me, personally, new movies are better than any books. They represent the "real" continuation of the story.

    It might turn out for the better. As it is, Del Rey was already thinking along these lines. It might not be too late to do some rewrites on Crucible & SOTJ to start transitioning into the "new" era.

    But years of having to hear about how "stupid" the new movies are and how evil GL is because VII-IX replaced the EU...it's like the prequels all over again.

    Just like with the Zahn trilogy, we might get something far better than what we had before.

    EDIT: Just want to add that I'm re-reading or reading for the first time a lot of the post RotJ EU, because it stopped appealing to me in the 90's. The fact that the story might change soon hasn't effected this at all. I'm sure there are many others who would be interested to read these books even if they are relegated to "alternate canon" or something.
    Last edited by The-Eternal-Hero, Nov 13, 2012
    fenton and ThatWanFromStewjon like this.
  15. Tim Battershell Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    Someone called Palpatine was responsible for that - numbers count!
  16. thesevegetables Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2012
    star 4
    Besides numbers, though, I just find a lot of NJO knights weak. This may be because the NJO has seriously relaxed its policies - there are no more Padawans who all get personal Masters, and everyone can continue training, while only the best in the old order could didn't get kicked out at age 13. And the Jedi are preoccupied with Force-related stuff instead of actually getting politically stable - bothering with stuff like Abeloth and bug cults instead of practical stuff on helping a galaxy get back on its feet.
    And the Jedi just liberated the galaxy from Palpatine - yet the galaxy is not grateful and even supports Imps! Maybe because the Jedi suck. The NJO books are a crazy, crazy world.
  17. Force Smuggler Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    I hope the new books that come out with Episode 7 continuity are as likable as the current EU books are. I know the EU books from 1991 to now have been all over the place in quality but I want likable characters and story ideas. I've invested a lot of time for the EU books (since 1998) so the characters, plots and planets and what not. I'm generally easy-going about the books so I want it to be fun. I want memorable characters that I can get behind. I won't like it getting rid of the Bantam/Del Rey EU but if they do the quality of the new books better be just as great as the old EU stuff. I like the NJO and the Thrawn stuff and the X-Wing stuff and a lot of everything else and will be unhappy if they don't match the fun factor of the old stuff.
    ThatWanFromStewjon likes this.
  18. Tim Battershell Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    It is down to numbers. The OJO had roughly 10,000 at the start of the Clone Wars - Luke's NJO has just 50 to resist the Vong - and it seems that half of them may have been killed during it.

    The Bug Cult was down to a Jedi survivor from SBS Force-calling his old comrades to support the bugs.

    Abeloth was a major threat (imagine several thousand avatars with her powers loose in the Galaxy).

    Jedi don't usually get involved in politics - even the Naboo mission was somewhat outside their remit - and was partly responsible for Valorum being ousted IMHO.
  19. Force Smuggler Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    NJO>LOTF>FOTJ=DNT
    NJO was the best of the lot. It shook things up. Sure it shook things way too much but is perfect. Good characters, good character arcs, fascinating villains etc.
    DNT is meh for me. I liked it when it came out, then didn't like and am now alright with it. It was ruined for me since they didn't stick to the plot points at the end of TUF.
    LOTF was pretty exciting for me. Sure each writer was all over the place and I could see Jacen's fate a mile away but the books separately was amazing.
    FOTJ was alright but they went off on on plot lines that made no sense.

    A Galactic war every decade is pretty bad alright
    Last edited by Force Smuggler, Nov 13, 2012
    ThatWanFromStewjon likes this.
  20. stellarmagic01 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 4
    I literally wrote off the post-RoTJ EU after Dark Nest I... I felt ill afterwards and just couldn't stand to see another idiotic war envelop the galaxy at that point. Can't these guys get a break?
  21. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    That is why I love Mercy Kill, Crosscurrent, Scourge, and Riptide. Books about the not skywalkers doing important things to prevent war rather than fight it
  22. bluemilkcheesypuffs77 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2012
    star 2
    I think you all underestimate the influence that Pablo hidalgo holds at lucasfilm. If they wanted to make truly original stories the writers and "creative consultants" would make up their own things, they wouldn't bother checking with mr. Hidalgo. If hidalgo thinks that parts of the EU should be incorporated into the ST, then it will. This guy has been apart of visual dictionaries and encyclopedias for a while now, pretty sure he wouldn't want to dump all that in the bin
  23. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    Not to mention, I would be slighted as Mr. Hidalgo if I spend my career tracking Star Wars species, planets, events, and characters (awesome job by the way) all to have your lifes work thrown out.
  24. stellarmagic01 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 4
    I think even Hidalgo looks at a certain point beyond Return of the Jedi and goes... "What a kriffing mess!" Yes, he will pressure them to include EU elements and characters, and he won't be the only one, but he'll also be a realist... The Vong War throws an immense wrench in the system, especially the death of Chewbacca. He won't be the only one either... I mean Mark Hamill actually once voiced support for Mara Jade's character.

    A film is an immense collaborative process so there will be many, many people looking over this film and examining every piece of it with a microscope. I mean you have actors that may actually know their characters if you use EU figures (hah, imagine that... you're playing Corran Horn and some dude hands you I, Jedi before you walk on set). The amount of EU elements the Clone Wars has included is actually mind boggling, but it's usually done rather subtly instead of blatantly. The whole Onderon arc? Lets see... Mandalorian involvement (check, it's Onderon and you've got a guy that almost joined Death Watch as a player), a fortified city (check, thank you KOTOR II), and Onderon Beast Riders (I don't think they ever said it, but it's there).

    Yes there are things that are major changes (Mandalore) but can be retconned around (Death Watch, Mandalorian Protectors, and New Mandalorian movements?). If I ever get a chance to do media tie-in work for Star Wars... the immediate aftermath of RoTS on Mandalore would be a great place to go. The mandalorians have a thing for adoption and lets face it... war orphans, escaped younglings, and so forth... it'd be a great story and link into the Clone Wars series.
  25. cronedoggy Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 1
    I thinks this comment struck me just the right way. Having a deep and rich world makes star wars feel like a universe in a way nothing else does, except reality. If I hear about cleopatra, I can learn all about her life. I can follow an almost endless rabbit hole of links to learn about the ancient culture and her acquaintances.

    With star wars, i can see empire strikes back and think the bug alien in the background is cool looking. Then I can read about Gands from the planet gand and learn of their findsmen tradition etc.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.