Speculation Why the NJO and Legacy Era are toast.

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by stellarmagic01, Nov 5, 2012.

?

Do you think the NJO and Legacy are going to Survive Episode VII?

Yes 59 vote(s) 27.6%
No 154 vote(s) 72.0%
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  1. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    I think there will be an attempt to leave the EU as much as possible. Things will be inevitably trampled, however they will try to make it a new jumping point, I don't know if even Ben or Jaina will be main characters. They might even take a back seat to Luke's favorite apprentice up and coming through the ranks (who isn't his son)
  2. Darth_Xeres Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 3, 2010
    star 2
    Thanks for the clarification. And yes, even if currently there's no EU material directly covering that time period, the risk of interfering with previous material would still exist (in addition to the problem of the characters' age that I mentioned in my previous post).
  3. cronedoggy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 1
    I don't want to take us on too much of a tangent, but John carter wasn't a flop, and http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=johncarterofmars.htm shows that it made a 32 million dollar profit, not including dvd/rental money. I thought it was wierd that after opening weekend many news articles declared it "the biggest movie flop of all time", while any reasoanble person would wait at least a month to see how worldwide box office performed.
  4. Darth_Xeres Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 3, 2010
    star 2
    True, I didn't pay much attention after the first two weekends. Still, a would-be blockbuster that doesn't manage to cross the 100 million line at the domestic box office is bound to be considered a bit of a disappointment, regardless of its foreign performance. Also, while a 32 million dollar profit is certainly better than a loss, it's peanuts compared to what The Avengers earned. I can't blame Disney for (as far as I know) deciding not to film a John Carter sequel and instead focus their resources on Marvel (and now Lucasfilm).

    (And that's all I'll post on this subject so as to not further derail this thread. :))
  5. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    Well, there's two sides to the age issue - the further the setting date advances, the more the audience are likely to think "haven't they aged well!"!
  6. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    They havent aged terribly
  7. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    You can't just subtrack the 250 million production budget and comeup with how much it made.

    First, it apparently went over budget. Second, how many million sdid they spend promoting the movie - 30, 40, 50? And that 282 million is gross, the theaters and distributors take their cut before Disney gets their cut.
  8. The-Eternal-Hero Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    Thanks!
  9. Kabal Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1998
    star 2
    I honestly don't know where the players in this thread reside on what side of the argument...too many pages to read! However, my only point is that I don't think the EU has to be remotely followed or even considered, but I DO think that it will be used somewhat to incorporate macro-level ideas. If the original plan by Lucas to have each of the three (or four, depends on who you talk to!) deal with each subsequent generation, the only logical step would be to have the children of Han and Leia be the central figures in the story. Han and Leia get married? Sure, everyone knows how ROTJ ends, it's pretty logical to assume they get hitched and make babies!

    If, IF they do that, it would surprise no one if they used the names Jacen and Jaina. In fact, I think they should. Now, follower similar stories? That's another issue. As far as I'm concerned, you can trash most of what's written and discard it as it became very unusual and convoluted once the twins were entering their pre-teen years anyway.

    If they use the Solo kids and it contradicts a book or two or ten, who cares? Splinter of the Mind's Eye was a decent book, but it has no bearing whatsoever on the Star Wars universe anymore. Read it for entertainment value, but that's it. The films completely made it irrelevant. If Episode 7 - 9 make further EU books irrelevant, so be it.

    Suspension of disbelief is important and you don't have to explain to fans (or point them to a website) that Han and Leia got married, did the nasty and out popped out two babies. Heck, THAT can be addressed in the crawl. Mara Jade? Ben Skywalker? That might take work and film time as no one outside the film universe knows these characters. But they know Han and Leia and you know what happens when a man loves a woman...
  10. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    That is excatly the right attitude and quite frankly, I don't understand this "I need everything to fit, even if I have to bastardize it, or.....I'll be really upset!!!!" attitude that some people seem to have. Espically considering, in all likelyhood the EU will be largely or completely ignored.
    leiamoody and ThatWanFromStewjon like this.
  11. stellarmagic01 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 4
    Some things can flow organically and naturally from the EU to the films, some things can't... For example, I think most people seem to be of the agreement the films will be 20-40 years after Endor... (Aside for some odd 50+ thoughts from an unsubstantiated rumor).

    Splitting the difference we have 30 years after Endor or (34 ABY for those that know the EU dating system). Now some patterns from the Jedi Order can be used as a jumping off point. Obi-wan is in his mid 20s during Episode I. So I'd say we'll have one protagonist that's in their mid twenties. Who do we have from the EU that fits that mold?

    Jaina Solo, Jacen Solo, and others their age. So... we have new Jedi Knight Jaina Solo as a new master looking for advice from her Uncle Luke? Sounds like a good choice doesn't it. I mean, Luke is probably too old to be an Obi-wan figure like in Episodes II and III... he is however ideal for an older Episode IV style Obi-wan figure or Yoda type figure. Now familial love seems to be a bit of a theme for master apprentice pairs (I loved you like a brother!) so... the apprentice figure.

    Well, he wouldn't be ideal in age but hey... we're playing loose with the EU. A 13 year old Ben Skywalker as Jaina's apprentice? A sort of big sister - little brother angle in place? Seems natural enough to me.

    Introducing Ben and his mother isn't terribly difficult really... I'd love to see Mara on the screen. I mean the moment Jaina is assigned Ben as her apprentice and they walk out you could have the doors close and Mara turned to Luke and say.

    Mara: "I still think he's too young."
    Luke: "Really, how old were you when you first went on a mission?"
    Mara: "That was different Skywalker!"
    Luke: "I know, and after fifteen years of marriage you still call me Skywalker?"
    Mara: "You prefer farmboy? Luke, he's our son, I'm allowed to worry, right?"

    That is all you'd need. We do not need to spell out the whole Emperor's Hand business or anything like that. It is the relationship between the characters that is of importance not the little bitty details of their backstory. Lucas doesn't give Anakin and Obi-wan the talk about falling into a nest of Gundarks to tell us how they fell into a nest of Gundarks. He does it to establish the relationship between the two. From a general audience perspective, Ben being 10+ years younger then the Solos makes perfect sense since Luke didn't have a love interest last time we saw him, right?
  12. ThatWanFromStewjon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2012
    star 4
    The thing is, stellarmagic01 , that the EU doesn't matter a great deal to George Lucas - no matter how much he guided Zahn in the story and characters. And Michael Arndt may never have read even one of them.

    Lucas primary goal is telling HIS story about HIS characters.
  13. EviL_eLF Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2003
    star 4
    ^I still don't know where people get the idea that the EU has never mattered to GL... especially when he had final say of events that took place, and he even chose who to kill off!
  14. The-Eternal-Hero Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    I just wanna state again how excited I am to have an Academy Award winning screenwriter aboard for EVII ;)
  15. stellarmagic01 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 4
    I'm not sure... am I being mocked?
  16. The-Eternal-Hero Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    NO. Just a good-natured jab :)
    ThatWanFromStewjon likes this.
  17. stellarmagic01 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 4
    Good... I was frightened for a minute, I'm trying to sell a manuscript man! lol

    I've been thinking about the 50+ years later talk as a way to get around the EU and... am I the only one looking at the cast ages and going I don't know... I mean yes, we don't have to make them look younger that way but... I don't know. I really hate the idea of including the mass of death, destruction, and general foolishness that is the Yuuzhan Vong War, Second Galactic Civil War, and most recent books. I'm fine with the earlier works but... I just can't see them using characters with that much baggage.

    Mark Hamill will be 63 when Episode VII hits, Carrie will be 59, and Ford will be the oldest at 73. At 54 ABY (50 years after Endor) Luke and Leia are 75 and Han is 84-85... That's actually quite a bit older then the cast actually is... to go beyond that. I don't know.
  18. The-Eternal-Hero Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    I have a feeling they're gonna do right by the characters. I also think they'll be going 100% for "infectious feel good inspirational" movie rather than "tragic downer". Just a gut feeling.
  19. chris hayes Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2012
    star 4
    I support & respect the EU.....you know there is another gap in the timeline the gap seems to be 30-34 ABY could episode 7,8 & 9 possibly fit in there ? Mara & Jacen will still be alive although Ben would only be 5.....I know I'm clutching at straws but I would hate for the timeline to be basically destroyed Imagine the poor guy at wookepidia having to re-write 100's of pages .
  20. Varactyl Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2012
    star 1
    I suspect it's mostly getting wiped, but parts of it will likely survive and be incorporated. We just have no idea which parts. The rest can live on as its own 'verse.
  21. Golden Jedi Knight Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2012
    star 1
    You seem eager to see the EU scrapped, and I don't understand why. To me, it would be stupid to completely disregard all those hundreds of books (and the fans who read them). It's possible for the filmmakers to make an original, good story without rewriting the Skywalker and Solo family trees. There's nothing that says that Jacen, Jaina, Anakin, and Ben all would have to be main characters in Episode VII, or that their entire back stories would have to be told to the audience, or anything like that if the major events of the EU were preserved. They could be made into minor characters or never even be shown on screen and we wouldn't need to have all that extra explanation. There's nothing that says every single event between ROTJ and Episode VII has to be told about to the audience. They could work around the major events of the EU and avoid dismantling NJO and Legacy and any other major storylines. There will be some conflict with the EU, most likely, but not enough to turn it all into some alternate, unrelated universe.
    thesevegetables likes this.
  22. EviL_eLF Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2003
    star 4
    Most of this thread's argument towards trashing the EU is done mostly by those who WANT it trashed and based on virtually nothing at all.

    I highly doubt it happens, and would only believe it if I saw it.
  23. Jeff Vader Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2012
    star 1
    My two cents. I have read a hell of a lot of EU. The Timothy Zahn books seem to "get" the Star Wars universe more than others I have read. Thrawn looms large over the EU cos he is such a good big bad. I'm reading Scourge atm which has none of the originals and is all the better for it. If TPTB decide to ditch everything then I'm good, I can get my head around a new universe. We will get what we will get, and, we will all be at cinemas in july 2015 (or whenever it is) super stoked for new Star Wars! I'd love to see Thrawn in the new movies but am just as happy if he just exists in non canon, I can still read those books, I'm 41 and I am more than capable of divorcing EU from GU. My Mrs hates SW but she (trys to) trolls me constantly about the new films! Its all good banter, we have 2 and a half years of this, tis gonna be fun :)
  24. Darth_Xeres Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 3, 2010
    star 2
    No, I don't want see the EU scrapped. But neither do I want to see it weighing down the ST. Therefore my ideal solution would be that, from a point back in the timeline (say around the Darth Bane trilogy) the EU is declared to be an alternate universe. This would both preserve its canon status, which should content a number of hardcore EU fans, and leave a blank slate for the ST, which could then cherrypick various characters/ships/ideas/whatever from the EU and import them in its own new continuity.

    The children of Han, Leia and Luke, made into minor characters or not even shown on screen? I really don't think audiences would like that. As for the fans who read those books, a number will swallow their disppointment and jump on board the ST bandwagon. I expect Disney/LFL will see the loss of those who abandon the Star Wars franchise entirely as acceptable compared to the number of new fans they expect/hope the ST will create.

    As more and more new movies are released, as more and more new comics and novels based on the ST are published, it would IMO be inevitable that more and more conflicts with the EU would arise, almost certainly to the detriment of the latter, and eventually leading to it - at least its post-Endor era - being almost entirely retconned. So I'd rather not well-meaning EU fans make honest but futile efforts to mesh the two continuities.
    ThatWanFromStewjon likes this.
  25. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    Would a group of entirely new characters on a detached mission - intersecting only with the Big 3 - be a way of having our cake and eating it too?

    Once their adventures have finished, then they could be written into subsequent EU novels and/or have their deeds/adventures referenced therein.
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