Speculation Why the NJO and Legacy Era are toast.

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by stellarmagic01, Nov 5, 2012.

?

Do you think the NJO and Legacy are going to Survive Episode VII?

Yes 59 vote(s) 27.6%
No 154 vote(s) 72.0%
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  1. darthfettus2015 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2012
    star 3
  2. darthfettus2015 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2012
    star 3
    as ive said in my own post - it seems obvious to me that there is ample space in the established timeline for the EU to survive. There may be tweaks but thereis no reason why it has to suffer - 44 years ABY Luke and Leia are still alive and the story is empty til 104 ABY thats the ST
    Tim Battershell likes this.
  3. Saurion-Fett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 3, 2001
    star 4
    I dont read much EU tried but just was not for me.....is Dark Empire EU...and if so did that not happen after ROTJ?
  4. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
  5. darthfettus2015 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2012
    star 3
    the star wars films are episodic after all and dont cover everything...clone wars etc.....i always knew Lucas wanted to do 9 but thought he had run out of ideas or time
    s
  6. tsunami1138 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2012
    star 1
    Okidoke, I'll dive right in at the deep end, nail my colours to the mast, and say I'm an EU fan, with most of the books in my collection. I'd rather not have 30 years worth of literature erased, but I can certainly deal with it if they did.

    However, to all the people who doubt whether the EU will survive in its present state, and comment that things such as the lack of Wookiee on the Falcon or the lack of mother to Ben Skywalker would need to be fastidiously explained...what's wrong with the following?

    (Han and Leia are in the Falcon's cockpit. Chewbacca's bandolier is strung across the back of the co-pilot's seat. As Leia moves to take her seat, she nudges it out of place)

    Han: (On entering) Hey, watch it!!
    (He readjusts it, and gazes at it wistfully)
    Leia: You really miss him, don't you...?
    Han: ...Yeah.

    Simple, clean, effective. Chewie isn't there, Han is sad. There's been 40 years between movies; to the casual observer, Chewie could have gone home, or any number of possible alternatives. Sure, some people will piss and moan about it, but give them an absolute blockbuster of a movie, and they'll soon forget about that.

    Similarly with Ben - just give Luke a line along the lines of; "Y'know, son, your mother would have been really proud of you", and the job is done. Address the fact that 40 years of conflict has, understandably, resulted in death and chaos in the opening crawl, and I really can't see the big issue.
  7. The-Eternal-Hero Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    And millions of people get up & demand their money back.

    There's no way they'll write Chewie out of his own movie.
  8. TheAvengerButton Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 11, 2011
    star 1
    Star Wars Episode VII: Chewbacca's Furocious Adventure?
  9. stellarmagic01 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 4
    Oh well, I was trying to take the discussion into a less 'all or nothing' direction with a new thread, but since it got locked I'll put this here.

    The screenwriter for Episode VII has got a task that I would consider both a dream job and a nightmare. He's writing three movies for general audiences in a single continuous universe which the vast majority has not read. Honestly I was once a big EU reader, but after Del Rey launched the NJO I lost interest. I know many people who have never read any EU though I have found that most Star Wars fans have read at least a few of the novels... (Most seem to have read some of the X-wing series or the Thrawn Trilogy)

    The only thing I can really compare it to is if you were a writer asked to do a superhero movie. I mean, we have had some good and some bad superhero movies over the last couple years. Can you imagine any writer, be it George Lucas or Michael Arndt releasing a script that didn't require at the very least some amount of retcon?

    Ultimately I think any writer approaching this series is likely to ignore, retcon, or adjust things from the Expanded Universe rather than adapt them exactly as they were in the books. I'll give some examples.

    Names: The Galactic Federation of Free Alliances vs. The New Republic

    Honestly, what were the EU writers thinking with a name like that? I could buy them maybe using the name 'The Alliance' but the GFFA? I don't think so. For one thing anytime anyone sees the word Federation in Science Fiction they think of Star Trek. No, I expect the writer to say: "The Republic" or "The Galactic Republic" or "The New Galactic Republic" not... the "Galactic Federation of Free Alliances".

    Names: Jacen, Jaina, and... Anakin

    While it makes perfect sense in the books, seems relatively in character, and so forth. Anakin's name is bound to be a bit more difficult for the General Audience to accept. Not only that but using all the Solo kids at once is bound to be a bit... confusing. There are too many of them to deal with, especially with the Big Three in use. So... I don't expect Anakin to play a role, alive or dead. Jacen wouldn't have as big a role either... but Jaina would be great as a young Knight dealing with Ben as an apprentice.

    Baggage: Dark!Jacen and Jaina storyline

    Some baggage is fine... but excessive angst is not something any of us want for the follow up of the Original Trilogy. Jaina's arc in the post-NJO books is one that has profound affects on Jaina and for those of us that remember her relationship with Jacen and Jacen's development in the NJO... It just made no sense. I wouldn't use a 30 year old Jedi Master Jaina Solo because... she's broke and... just no.

    Baggage: Dead Chewie...

    General Audience popularity is bound to win out over canon adherence... this is one of the reasons so many of us believe that the character of Chewbacca is bound to appear in the films. We've seen characters killed off and brought back multiple times over the years and expecting Chewie not to appear because of Vector Prime seems rather unrealistic. He'll be back growling at Han for certain.

    Baggage: Luke Skywalker... a widower

    Okay, Mara Jade Skywalker... the other big character I hope and pray is brought back from the dead in the movies. Her presence can be minor, really minor, but lets face it as popular as Chewie is in the General Audiences... Mara is almost as popular in the Star Wars fandom. Plus she dies to Jacen... another angst ridden storyline that does not fit with an upbeat set of sequels to the Original Trilogy. Her introduction is relatively easy thanks to the passage of time, we'd almost expect Luke to be married unless he went all celibate Jedi Monk on us. Having her be an outspoken person would give her some lines in discussions with Luke instead of just being another named member of the council too.

    Protagonist: Ben Skywalker

    I saw the discussion that's been brought up on casting a young male Skywalker and... well, there's one problem I have with most of the ideas that have been put forward. Ben should be younger then that (not 9-10 but 13-14 would be great). One of the themes of the stories has always been family and well, since we know Han and Leia are a couple and Luke is single in Episode VI, having Luke's son be substantially younger then the Solo kids makes sense.

    I'd make him Jaina's apprentice, the age gap is about like Anakin Skywalker and Ashoka from the clone wars... this coupled with the fact they're cousins... well, expect awesome banter and humor to ensue.

    Protagonist: Jaina Solo

    "The Sword of the Jedi?" I don't know about that bit... but Jaina Solo, the 25 year old tinkerer and Jedi Knight sounds like an excellent protagonist. I have to say there has to be some gene in the Skywalker line that makes them act like Jawas... using cast off junkyard ships and rebuilding them for their own use. Or maybe Solo's genes just make it worse... sadly that element was abandoned in later characterization of Jaina.

    Now... Jaina as a 'new master' with Ben as an apprentice would be great... For one thing she has good reason to talk to Luke for advice both because it's Ben and because she's new at it. For another the Master - Apprentice relationships seem to be rather familial anyway. Obi-wan loves Anakin as a brother, you could almost see Anakin viewing Ashoka as an annoying little sister.

    Using Jaina is also another good reason to bring Mara back... in the EU Mara was her master, and lets face it... there'd be a great deal of family discussions in that scenario.
  10. The-Eternal-Hero Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    If the NJO & Legacy Era are toast, does that make the KOTOR era eggs & bacon?
  11. stellarmagic01 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 4
    KOTOR is Bacon.
    PT is Eggs.
    OT is Waffles.
  12. cronedoggy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 1
    I think it was a joke, an in reference to fans calling the sw universe "galaxy far far away" since the galaxy was never given a name.
  13. stellarmagic01 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 4
    lol... I could see it's genesis as a joke. I actually hadn't thought of that but the point still stands, if anything it's been reinforced. I know Zahn loves puns but the Galactic Federation of Free Alliances should not be the name of the new... er... Republic. XP

    Hey did we just demolish a ton of EU just by that statement? Man Del Rey's later EU novels aren't going to survive for very long.
  14. thesevegetables Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2012
    star 4
    I don't think the Galactic Federation was as unified as the Republic, though. And wasn't it run differently?
  15. chris hayes Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2012
    star 4
    Ok it seems Lucas & Disney have a bit of a problem they have 95% of an audience who know absolutely nothing about the EU & 5% who are fans or have knowledge of most goings on . So What to do :

    Most likely hold onto a fare bit of the EU , I'll list the following possibilities :

    1. Set the time line at 40 years after Episode 6 ( this fits in with the big 3's ages and fits the EU timeline )
    2. Hold onto Ben Skywalker & Jaina Solo ( these 2 fit perfectly for the next generation of Skywalkers )
    3. Leave Jacen & Anakin dead & don't mention them
    4. You could have Allana rebooted as Jaina's daughter
    5. Don't mention any previous wars ( Second Galactic Civil war etc )
    6. Bring Chewbacca back from the dead but have it that he was rescued & held captive for 20 years or something like that
    7. The Mara Jade issue there a few options - Just don't mention her at all , bring her in as a force ghost cameo , she faked her death & is found by Luke .

    I believe you can please both sides on the EU subject but it will take a lot of thought & good writing from Lucas & Disney to pull it off .
  16. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    Dealing with the death of a main character off screen like that, is just bad story telling. You don't have major events like that happen off screen.
  17. EviL_eLF Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2003
    star 4
    Happens all the time actually...people take it in stride without a second thought. Even The Matrix did it with Tank for The Matrix Reloaded.
  18. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    Names are the easest things to include as they have little to no effect on the story. The PT story is unchanged if Coruscant is called anything else.

    I don't expect Luke to married. And the majority of people who will go see that movie have no idea who she is. If Luke is married, his wife will most likely be introduced in the movie. It might be Mara jade, it might not be (I think Lucas and Arndt will do their own thing) but if it is, her history will be different.

    Baggage - will all be forgotten. Having major, life changing events happen off screen (which realistic) isn't how you tell a good story. Fans are going to want to experience the characters lives not be told in passing about all these great things they have done. Chewie will be alive. Luke will not have married and/ir not had 2 love interested die on him. A child will not have turned to the dark side, there won't be a galaxy wide invasion etc....

    Jaina and Ben wont' be the main characters. If you are removing ther baggage, you are removing their backstories. If you remove their backstories ther eis no point in including them over an original character. The whole point of using an existing character is expand on and deal with that character and their story. If you are ignoring it, whats the point?
  19. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    Because the actor didn't want to return. Arndt, Kennedy and company aren't in a position were they HAVE to kill off a character off-screen.
    Last edited by fenton, Nov 16, 2012
  20. EviL_eLF Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2003
    star 4
    GL killed Chewbacca...it was his call. Thus I'd think GL would respect his own decision.
  21. SuperWatto Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 19, 2000
    star 5
  22. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    I also don't get peoples.......willingness to retcon but unwilling to create a new continuity.

    Lets say they use Jaina as one of the main characters, but her history is completely different because they don't want to make an EU movie (maybe they want her younger as some people have suggested). So Anakin and Jacen are retconned out, the Vong Invasion is retconned out. Jagged and all that stuff is gone. Then they have Mara Jade in the movie and over the course of 3 movies have her and Luke meet and marry. Even if they keep her history as the Emperor's Hand, that would retcon the Zahn trilogy, the Thrawn books etc... Then you have Chewie come back becaues it makes no sense not to have him there if the other 3 are, so you have to retcon Vector Prime plus every book after to include Chewie.

    How much of the continuity is left? This isn't really situation were they can be "a little bit pregent". Either they will use the characters and storys from the post RotJ EU and the movie will be a continuation of the EU, or they'll completely undo the EU. The fixs that would be required by keeping some characters like Jaina or Chewie or Mara but not following their existing storylines would create a whole new EU as it is.
  23. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    No it wasn't, there was a no kill list, and the character was killed off in what Lucas calls "another universe". Lucas, Kennedy, Arndt and Disney won't make decisions on a 4 billion dollar franchise a 150-200 million dollar movie that HAS to make money because of a book written in 1999 that very people (compared to how many they need and want to go to the theater) read, and even fewer (since not everyone who reads any book likes it) liked.
  24. EviL_eLF Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2003
    star 4
    Yes, but he also respected his decision with Maul as well, since they worked a story that fit with what was told.
  25. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    Beacuse Lucas killed Maul in a movie. Chewie was killed by RA Salvatore in a novel (according to Lucas, a different universe). Big difference.

    If Lucas, Arndt, Kennedy, the director and/or Disney want Chewie to be int he movie, he will be.
    Last edited by fenton, Nov 16, 2012
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