Speculation Why the NJO and Legacy Era are toast.

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by stellarmagic01, Nov 5, 2012.

?

Do you think the NJO and Legacy are going to Survive Episode VII?

Yes 59 vote(s) 27.6%
No 154 vote(s) 72.0%
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  1. EviL_eLF Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2003
    star 4
    Chewie was killed in a book, but his death was given final approval by George himself before it could happen.

    There is no way Disney expects success or failure of the trilogy to hinge on whether Chewbacca is alive or dead in the ST.
  2. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    Why do people think Lucas is hands on with all this stuff when he has said he isn't?

    And even if he did, who cares? It was a book. Lucas has NEVER limited what he would od in a movie because of a book and it silly to think Arndt or Kennedy or Disney or anyone else making hte film would (espically considering they certainly had no hand in killing him) would when there is hundreds of millions of dollars at stake.
    Last edited by fenton, Nov 16, 2012
  3. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    Soaps bring characters back from seemingly being dead all the time.

    Chewie is easy to bring back (and with a lot less disbelief than Maul's resurection). He was badly injured, lost his memory, but was rescued. He has spent the intervening time recovering from his injuries and getting his memories back. Ultra Simple - all it needs is to be put into an EU novel. Therefore no problem.

    There is no real need to show (unless Disney & Co actually want to) the EU Jedi Order; or any of its familiar members. The ST Protagonists (fresh characters) can be based at a Jedi enclave (with the opportunity of showing an entirely new, and interesting, planet - say Dathomir or Corellia). They interact on-screen only with the Big 3 and Chewie. Again no problem - and they can be written into the EU later, when the ST arc has finished.

    Little, if any, need for a retcon -- and certainly no need for a new continuity.

    The one-continuity situation would have had to have been suggested or signed-off-on by GL when it was set up. It's far easier to maintain one Holocron than several.
  4. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    So you really want Star Wars to sink to the level of Days of our Lives?

    Again, why are you ok destorying the continuity and stories with silly retcons but not just starting over? Its kind of a "6 of 1, Half dozen of another" thing.

    All this excessive retconning does is kill the continuity you like so much and make it harder for new readers to jump in. Disney will want more readers, not drive the ones they have way.
  5. tsunami1138 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2012
    star 1
    It doesn't make any sense for Lucas and Lucasfilm to allow the creation of so much media relating to the EU over the past thirty years, only to blitz the whole lot of it in one fell swoop. You'd think that this deal would have been a year or so in the making, therefore there's a lot of media that's come out in that time which would surely have been cancelled if its usefulness to the continuity was going to be deleted. I can deal, and I will deal, if that is in fact the case, but I'm afraid I just can't see Lucas letting us play in his playground for so long and then telling us to get out, because it's somebody else's now.
  6. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    The point you're missing is that retcons do not destroy continuity - the most they do is adjust it.

    Starting over would most definitely kill the EU continuity and would almost certainly drive some existing readers away.
  7. Jango_Fett21 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2002
    star 3
    The very fact that we are arguing about preserving the integrity of the EU proves that it was actually a supremely bad decision to give the EU canonical status. What's done is done, though. All that can be done now is for LF to release a statement officially de-canonizing it and stating that, although it will continue to be perpetuated, it is considered to be 100% separate from the SW official canon.

    Such a scenario preserves the EU as a body of works and allows it to be continued, but does not handcuff the filmmakers in any way.

    It also allows for the potential release of all-new tie-in material that us itself not beholden to the current EU but instead only to the official SW canon.
    Last edited by Jango_Fett21, Nov 16, 2012
    Artoo-Dion likes this.
  8. tsunami1138 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2012
    star 1
    ...Until they eradicate that in one fell swoop like they did with the current EU.

    Deleting the entire thing, de-canonizing it, harms their chances of making money, that one thing that many people seem to agree would be the deciding factor as regards the destruction of the EU. However small the amount might be as compared to the movies, it's still worth a fair bit. I'm fairly certain I won't be alone in saying that, if they decide to de-canonize the current EU and reboot the whole thing with "all-new tie-in" material, I won't be partaking in it. Once bitten, twice shy and all that.
    Golden Jedi Knight likes this.
  9. krtmd Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 5, 2012
    star 4
    But it might seriously hamper the quality of the authors willing to write for the EU in the future, if its reduced to legally sanctioned fan fiction.
  10. Force Smuggler Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 5
    Lucas told them to not kill Luke. Not sure if he said anything about Han or Leia at that point but he wouldn't agree with their deaths. Th writers then chose Chewie. So Lucas had a role in Chewie's death.
    tsunami1138 likes this.
  11. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    What doesn't make sense is hampering your filmmakers when making a movie with hundreds of millions of dollars on the line.

    Why cancel abook before it makes money for you? Whenever Marvl and DC re-start something they don't shutdown publishing for a year leading up too it.

    He isn't elling you to get out, its just chaning the play ground.
  12. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    Retcons do destory continuity and stories. Having Chewie not die and go into a coma (which is REALLY, REALLY bad writting) undoes a big part of that book and makes everything after.......less because Chewie isn't there and he should be

    As I pointed out, fresh starts increase readership, something Disney probably know.
  13. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    It was, which is why Lucas took it away (the different levels, stating the EU was another universe etc....).

    And of course Disney will release new tie-in material once Episode VII is out, that will most likely replace the current EU, because they need to recoup 4 billion dollars before they can start making money on Star Wars.

    Its something fans should be happy and excited about, not bitter like battershell.
  14. Jango_Fett21 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2002
    star 3
    That's a fallacy. Other franchises' tie-in works aren't canonical but that doesn't stop writers from wanting to contribute. The canonicity of a universe of tie-in fiction has absolutely no bearing on whether or not an author would be interested in contributing to said universe.
  15. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    Absolutely nobody was "arguing about preserving the integrity of the EU" until certain posters decided that the news of Disney's acquisition of Lucasfilm was an excellent excuse to 'have a good stir' by advocating effectively trashing the EU.

    I don't know what they have got against the EU -- but more than a few seem to be just banging on with their own opinionated propaganda rather than reading and understanding the counter-arguments and reasonable suggestions then taking part in a reasoned debate.
    tsunami1138 likes this.
  16. tsunami1138 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2012
    star 1
    Marvel and DC are completely different kettles of fish. Over the past however-many-years, reboots and re-starts and re-imaginings have become part of the culture. That isn't the same for Star Wars.
  17. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    No it doesn't.

    First, making an EU movie with Ben and Jaina etc... and either expecting the audience to care about characters and events they don't know or trying to explain 30 years of liturature in a film is how you hurt your chances of making money

    Second, a fresh restart of the EU would make them more money. The comic book companies have proved this.

    Third, Lucas already has de-canonized the EU and contridicted lots of it in the PT and TCW. It hasn't hurt anything.

    I'm sure you believe you won't partake and maybe you won't. But most fans, even the angry ones, will hear about new books and how good they are....they'll buy them and read them. Its what happens.
  18. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    I think its the militant and bitter defenders of the EU who want to have a good stir by going to the movie board (not the EU board) and insist on pushing the opinion that EU MUST be "respected".

    No one is trashing the EU, we are simply realistic about what is coming.

    If you know you're just banging on about your own opinionated propaganda, why do you continue?
  19. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    But they had to start with the first one. And EVERYTIME readership increases.

    You know why they keep re-starting series from #1 again? Becuase #1's SELL MORE.

    People keep saying "if they make a movie about Jaina and Ben and referense their pasts they'll sell books because some fans will want to go and read about those pasts". Until they fin dout they need to read 40 or 50 books to get it all, and then search out hte offical "retcons" to explain the things that have changed (like Chewies trip to the Days of our Lives).

    The way to sell more product (and its been PROVEN) is to make it the most accessable you can. Episodes VII will be a reflectino of Lucas's vision, not that of a bunch of EU authors. Large portions (if not all) of the EU wil most likely be contridicted. The best way to attract new readers and increase profits isn't to force people to read large number of books and educate themselves on a bunch of retcons, its to re-start the continuity complete and give everyone a fresh start and an easy place to jump on.

    A new book about Han and Leia's son that only has to deal with the movie that the reader saw is MUCH more welcoming then a book about a 30 year old Jaina that has to deal with and build on the baggage/story/history that has been established over the last 20 years.
  20. tsunami1138 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2012
    star 1
    I'm beginning to feel like I'm repeating myself.

    Point one - expecting the audience to care about characters and events they don't know is what film-making and story-telling is built on. We didn't know Han, Luke, Ben or Leia before 1977. Did we care about them? Yeah, of course we did! You don't have to explain 30 years worth of literature to make the movie make sense, even starting it at the point where the EU currently lies. Anybody with even a modicum of working knowledge about writing scripts should know that. When we saw Star Wars for the first time, we knew jack about the Clone Wars, and we didn't expect it to be explained - TESB as we know it didn't come into being until after SW was such a huge hit. People still got on board with it. Why can't the same apply in this situation?

    Point two - I'm nowhere near certain about a rebooted EU's ability to make as much money as the current one. If the new generation aren't willing to pick up a couple of books to learn what happened between VI and VII, what makes you think they'll be willing to pick up the new ones?
  21. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    @fenton

    Please note that personal attacks are against forum rules.

    Do I have to call on the Moderators?
  22. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    There is a HUGE difference between "here is a new universe and new characters". People want the EU charactesr used because they are alread established characters, you can't start a movie with established characters with that much backstory and expect people to care. If you are just going to ignore the backstory anyway, whats the point in using hte EU characters in the first place? ANd if you want to use them as a conduit to getting more fans into the books an dother material, if they find 30-40-50 books worth of material PLUS retcons they have to search out to make everything makes sense.....you are going to attract that many fans.

    Would you start TPM with ANakin as a freed slave and Qui-Gon dead and the Sith revealed? The point of hte movie is to SHOW the audience events like that.

    40-50 books isn't a COUPLE of books.
  23. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    Then you should stop making them. I repeated the statement you made. If you find it insulting, maybe the people you were talking about did too.
  24. tsunami1138 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2012
    star 1
    Look, my point, boiled down to the most basic level, is that it is not necessary, and certainly not as vital as some would have it appear, for the EU to be discontinued as a canonical, direct descendant of the Star Wars saga. That's all.
  25. Orchid Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
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